Cast iron or soapstone?

[BrowningBAR]

. . .and moving right along to address a few other points in this thread. . .one moment while I put on my "Woodstock Hero" hat. I expressed the same guinnea pig idea to folks who were looking at the new VC's last year. I believe I basically said they would have to offer me 50% off to get me to try a new VC. Well, Woodstock has a more consistent record than VC, and they are offering 33% (?) off + a money-back guarantee. I doubt that anyone who "risked it" on a new VC got a deal like that. I doubt that anyone buying the relatively new Rangely is getting a deal like that. The closest I've heard of anyone coming to getting a deal like that is someone on the forum who went to a dealer to get a Dutchwest. The dealer told him that the Alderlea was a better stove, and guaranteed to exchange it for a Dutchwest if he didn't like the Alderlea. How many dealers would do that? 1 in 100? And an exchange for one of the few brands a dealer carries is still not as good as getting your $ back and buying whatever you want...

Which is why I have posted several times that I could not recommend the new VCs to new members here since they are unaware of the history of issues with VC. Would I buy one? Yes, but I researched it, I know the past issues that exist, I priced out the replacement parts, and I went and inspected the stoves myself.

But, at least with other newer stoves they all had full specs and clearances available along with actual photos of the stove. You could go to the local dealer and check out the new stoves. Woodstock hasn't even produced real images of the stove at this point. No final specs. No clearances. No R-Values for hearth protection. No one has seen the stove. No one knows how much heat it puts out.

If I had the coin right now, would I buy the new stove? Absolutely. But recommending it to someone like 'logroad' is hard to do since he has an old pre-EPA stove that was VERY large and puts out a ton of heat. No one knows how the new stove would compare to the old Defiant in terms of heat output. Because, that fact is, the old Defiant had about a 3.5 cu ft firebox which is much larger than the new Woodstock.

 

[ddddddden]

. . .re the shipping/delivery hassle. . .I agree that it is an issue, but, like many problems, this one is easily solved by spending $. $100-200 for a mover to do it. Worst case: You hate the stove and you pay another $200 for the movers to get rid of it. You're out $400. If you get a stove from a local dealer, they will deliver it. But if you hate the stove after a season of burning, how many dealers are going to haul it away and give you a full refund?! If you wanted it gone, you'd probably have to sell the stove, and you'd probably lose more than $400 on the deal. . .a lot more.

 

[mhrischuk]

I wonder why they wood sell stoves before the specs are written and no photographs of the final product? Maybe they are in the hole financially and need the cash to pay for the development sooner than later? Or they simply want to capture this season's market share as it starts getting colder but just weren't quite ready?

 

[BrowningBAR]

I wonder why they wood sell stoves before the specs are written and no photographs of the final product? Maybe they are in the hole financially and need the cash to pay for the development sooner than later? Or they simply want to capture this season's market share as it starts getting colder but just weren't quite ready?

Seems unlikely. They really do seem like a damn good company.

 

[woodlot]

Mhrischuk,I am wondering why your equinox is sitting outside,I noticed you are from S E Pa, are you selling it or what?If you are please let me know.

 

[ddddddden]

Exactly! And those who know the company have no problem recommending them. That said, your point about clearance specs is well taken, and I would certainly suggest that a buyer double check the specs before their stove ships. . .I'll bet that Woodstock will ask them to do this when they contact buyers with their shipping dates. I'll further wager that we'll have all the specs after the debut this weekend. I believe we alrdady have some of the final specs(dimensions.) I see no reason to question their output estimate of 80k BTU. They've been playing with the stove for a few years now, and this # probably means more than the numbers generated in EPA testing with douglas fir.

 

[HollowHill]

I wonder why they wood sell stoves before the specs are written and no photographs of the final product? Maybe they are in the hole financially and need the cash to pay for the development sooner than later? Or they simply want to capture this season's market share as it starts getting colder but just weren't quite ready?

I think they are "rushing" to market because they have had people waiting impatiently for a couple of years now for this product, such as myself. After researching, I fixated (yup, admit it) on Woodstock stoves awhile back, but didn't think the Fireview would have the horsepower for this barn. Once I heard that Woodstock was coming out with a larger stove, I decided it was worth the wait (also took awhile to talk dh into the whole heating with wood idea). But with oil prices being what they are, I'm feeling real pressure to get something this year. I imagine I'm not alone in this feeling. And I imagine Woodstock is savvy enough to realize their market's needs/desires. I was impressed that they didn't rush it out the door last year to take advantage of the tax credit. Am I taking a risk, gulp yes, but I'm hoping that it is a calculated one that pays off :gulp:

 

[ddddddden]

As for possible financial motives, yeah they probably would lose some sales if they waited until Nov to publicize the stove, but if you suspect anything less than honorable intentions, you're barking up the wrong tree. They're only taking $250 deposits(fully refundable) to reserve stoves. You pay the balance when the stove ships, with your approval. So yeah, you can lock in the sale price with a deposit, then when they contact you to ship, tell them you've changed your mind, and they'll refund your $250. What a bunch of conniving bastards! :cheese:

 

[Battenkiller]

Double walled soapstone evens out the heat better.

Greater total thickness on the Woodstock as well, I believe.

 

[Battenkiller]

Woodstock hasn't even produced real images of the stove at this point. No final specs. No clearances. No R-Values for hearth protection. No one has seen the stove. No one knows how much heat it puts out.

No one even knows its real name. %-P

 

[mhrischuk]

As for possible financial motives, yeah they probably would lose some sales if they waited until Nov to publicize the stove, but if you suspect anything less than honorable intentions, you're barking up the wrong tree. They're only taking $250 deposits(fully refundable) to reserve stoves. You pay the balance when the stove ships, with your approval. So yeah, you can lock in the sale price with a deposit, then when they contact you to ship, tell them you've changed your mind, and they'll refund your $250. What a bunch of conniving bastards! :cheese:

Sounds like a nice way to allow a prospective customer to get in early with no strings attached.

 

[firefighterjake]

Take your truck to the Hearth.com gathering, bring back a new Woodstock Progresso Hybrido. Install it, use it all season long, box it up and move the crated stove outside for pickup. But they're betting that you won't do that.

I don't think anyone is leaving the gathering with a PH. They aren't even in production yet. They don't even know the clearances yet.

3600$ is ridiculous and if that's the price they end up asking then, well, I think they are doomed to fail. One of the great things about woodstock is that the stove prices were pretty decent, decent enough to make up for the mail order risk. This is of course my opinion and I know some of the serious woodstock heros on this board (you know who you are)wont' like it.

Make no mistake, anybody getting the early bird price for this new woodstock stove IS the guinea pig. It is a calculated risk and a pretty small one given the great company but it is a risk. I would never recommend a stove before having some experience with it whether that is based on a very detailed review from a trusted source or from personal experience. For example, the fireview is a great stove with a long and excellent track record. I would love to own a fireview and would recommend it to someone I thought would be capable of running a cat stove.

When considering folks' experience with soapstone be sure to consider whether they are running a cat or non-cat stone stove. The cat element on a fireview (the most common cat stoner) is right on top of the stove under a relatively thin liftable lid. That fireview appears to heat up much quicker, at least the top, than a non-cat hearthstone which depends on the heat of the actual fire to warm the stove. I can tell you, from my actual experience, that non-cat soapstone stoves take a long time to heat up. A long time to begin heating the room. Yes, you will get some heat through the window to warm your palms but it will take hours before mojo is being made if you are starting with a cold stove/room. Keep the stove warm and this warm up time issue is a non-issue, instead, the thermal mass becomes a flywheel that smooths out the heat peaks.

Hehheh . . . I'm planning on leaving with a PH . . . my plan is to have Backwoods and Flatbed to provide a distraction -- maybe have Dennis fake a seizure when someone suggests Dennis should split his wood horizontally . . . and when everyone's back is turned I plan to load the stove (while still burning) into my pick up . . .

 

[Todd]

Take your truck to the Hearth.com gathering, bring back a new Woodstock Progresso Hybrido. Install it, use it all season long, box it up and move the crated stove outside for pickup. But they're betting that you won't do that.

I don't think anyone is leaving the gathering with a PH. They aren't even in production yet. They don't even know the clearances yet.

3600$ is ridiculous and if that's the price they end up asking then, well, I think they are doomed to fail. One of the great things about woodstock is that the stove prices were pretty decent, decent enough to make up for the mail order risk. This is of course my opinion and I know some of the serious woodstock heros on this board (you know who you are)wont' like it.

Make no mistake, anybody getting the early bird price for this new woodstock stove IS the guinea pig. It is a calculated risk and a pretty small one given the great company but it is a risk. I would never recommend a stove before having some experience with it whether that is based on a very detailed review from a trusted source or from personal experience. For example, the fireview is a great stove with a long and excellent track record. I would love to own a fireview and would recommend it to someone I thought would be capable of running a cat stove.

When considering folks' experience with soapstone be sure to consider whether they are running a cat or non-cat stone stove. The cat element on a fireview (the most common cat stoner) is right on top of the stove under a relatively thin liftable lid. That fireview appears to heat up much quicker, at least the top, than a non-cat hearthstone which depends on the heat of the actual fire to warm the stove. I can tell you, from my actual experience, that non-cat soapstone stoves take a long time to heat up. A long time to begin heating the room. Yes, you will get some heat through the window to warm your palms but it will take hours before mojo is being made if you are starting with a cold stove/room. Keep the stove warm and this warm up time issue is a non-issue, instead, the thermal mass becomes a flywheel that smooths out the heat peaks.

Hehheh . . . I'm planning on leaving with a PH . . . my plan is to have Backwoods and Flatbed to provide a distraction -- maybe have Dennis fake a seizure when someone suggests Dennis should split his wood horizontally . . . and when everyone's back is turned I plan to load the stove (while still burning) into my pick up . . .

I'd pay good money to see that!

 

[mhrischuk]

Mhrischuk,I am wondering why your equinox is sitting outside,I noticed you are from S E Pa, are you selling it or what?If you are please let me know.

Should be finally installed within the next couple of weeks. Had to wait for the hearth to get made... and delivered. Plus we had some vacationing to do.

 

[raybonz]

Take your truck to the Hearth.com gathering, bring back a new Woodstock Progresso Hybrido. Install it, use it all season long, box it up and move the crated stove outside for pickup. But they're betting that you won't do that.

I don't think anyone is leaving the gathering with a PH. They aren't even in production yet. They don't even know the clearances yet.

3600$ is ridiculous and if that's the price they end up asking then, well, I think they are doomed to fail. One of the great things about woodstock is that the stove prices were pretty decent, decent enough to make up for the mail order risk. This is of course my opinion and I know some of the serious woodstock heros on this board (you know who you are)wont' like it.

Make no mistake, anybody getting the early bird price for this new woodstock stove IS the guinea pig. It is a calculated risk and a pretty small one given the great company but it is a risk. I would never recommend a stove before having some experience with it whether that is based on a very detailed review from a trusted source or from personal experience. For example, the fireview is a great stove with a long and excellent track record. I would love to own a fireview and would recommend it to someone I thought would be capable of running a cat stove.

When considering folks' experience with soapstone be sure to consider whether they are running a cat or non-cat stone stove. The cat element on a fireview (the most common cat stoner) is right on top of the stove under a relatively thin liftable lid. That fireview appears to heat up much quicker, at least the top, than a non-cat hearthstone which depends on the heat of the actual fire to warm the stove. I can tell you, from my actual experience, that non-cat soapstone stoves take a long time to heat up. A long time to begin heating the room. Yes, you will get some heat through the window to warm your palms but it will take hours before mojo is being made if you are starting with a cold stove/room. Keep the stove warm and this warm up time issue is a non-issue, instead, the thermal mass becomes a flywheel that smooths out the heat peaks.

Hehheh . . . I'm planning on leaving with a PH . . . my plan is to have Backwoods and Flatbed to provide a distraction -- maybe have Dennis fake a seizure when someone suggests Dennis should split his wood horizontally . . . and when everyone's back is turned I plan to load the stove (while still burning) into my pick up . . .

LMAO good one!

Ray

 

[NH_Wood]

The one reason I would skip the mansfield is the lack of a side loading door and those duck feet. You can get real enamel on the hearthstones and I would recommend it over paint that fades quickly. I only use the side door when operating my heritage. The front door on all of the hearthstones is very large for a nice fire view but they are not the best stove access due to smoke spillage and ash spillage. The seal system is marginal and tends to hold ash against the door gasket to be dumped when opening the front door but not the side door.

Why not consider the equinox? It is a super sized heritage and could take advantage of that oversize flue you have.

I haven't found ash or smoke spillage to be an issue at all with my Mansfield. Also, with side loading your Heritage, are you limited to E/W burns? That is one thing I've noticed with my Mansfield - N/S loading is MUCH better for getting the load burning quickly. Cheers!

 

[BrowningBAR]

The one reason I would skip the mansfield is the lack of a side loading door and those duck feet. You can get real enamel on the hearthstones and I would recommend it over paint that fades quickly. I only use the side door when operating my heritage. The front door on all of the hearthstones is very large for a nice fire view but they are not the best stove access due to smoke spillage and ash spillage. The seal system is marginal and tends to hold ash against the door gasket to be dumped when opening the front door but not the side door.

Why not consider the equinox? It is a super sized heritage and could take advantage of that oversize flue you have.

I haven't found ash or smoke spillage to be an issue at all with my Mansfield. Also, with side loading your Heritage, are you limited to E/W burns? That is one thing I've noticed with my Mansfield - N/S loading is MUCH better for getting the load burning quickly. Cheers!

Unless you're cutting short, the Heritage is an E/W loader.

 

[NH_Wood]

The one reason I would skip the mansfield is the lack of a side loading door and those duck feet. You can get real enamel on the hearthstones and I would recommend it over paint that fades quickly. I only use the side door when operating my heritage. The front door on all of the hearthstones is very large for a nice fire view but they are not the best stove access due to smoke spillage and ash spillage. The seal system is marginal and tends to hold ash against the door gasket to be dumped when opening the front door but not the side door.

Why not consider the equinox? It is a super sized heritage and could take advantage of that oversize flue you have.

I haven't found ash or smoke spillage to be an issue at all with my Mansfield. Also, with side loading your Heritage, are you limited to E/W burns? That is one thing I've noticed with my Mansfield - N/S loading is MUCH better for getting the load burning quickly. Cheers!

Unless you're cutting short, the Heritage is an E/W loader.

Does the primary air enter bottom, front and center in the Heritage as it does in the Manny? If so, either the heritage is just better at E/W burning, or my particular setup is bad at it - N/S is always great, hit and miss E/W - mainly miss. Cheers!

 

[tfdchief]

Hehheh . . . I'm planning on leaving with a PH . . . my plan is to have Backwoods and Flatbed to provide a distraction -- maybe have Dennis fake a seizure when someone suggests Dennis should split his wood horizontally . . . and when everyone's back is turned I plan to load the stove (while still burning) into my pick up . . .

I don't know why I just saw this, but I almost LMAO. Jake, if you pull this off, I want video of Dennis doing the "choking chicken". What is Flatbed going to do......administer CPR? And who is going to suggest Dennis split horizontal?......I am just thinking they will never let hearth.com back to Woodstock ever again. ;-P Wish I could come :exclaim:

 

[BrowningBAR]

The one reason I would skip the mansfield is the lack of a side loading door and those duck feet. You can get real enamel on the hearthstones and I would recommend it over paint that fades quickly. I only use the side door when operating my heritage. The front door on all of the hearthstones is very large for a nice fire view but they are not the best stove access due to smoke spillage and ash spillage. The seal system is marginal and tends to hold ash against the door gasket to be dumped when opening the front door but not the side door.

Why not consider the equinox? It is a super sized heritage and could take advantage of that oversize flue you have.

I haven't found ash or smoke spillage to be an issue at all with my Mansfield. Also, with side loading your Heritage, are you limited to E/W burns? That is one thing I've noticed with my Mansfield - N/S loading is MUCH better for getting the load burning quickly. Cheers!

Unless you're cutting short, the Heritage is an E/W loader.

Does the primary air enter bottom, front and center in the Heritage as it does in the Manny? If so, either the heritage is just better at E/W burning, or my particular setup is bad at it - N/S is always great, hit and miss E/W - mainly miss. Cheers!

Yes, I believe that is the location of the primary are. I could easily see how n/s loading would provide better results with the way I see the air coming in.

 

[snowleopard]

Late to the party, but it took awhile to get through the posts so far.

I've lived with a lot of stoves, fell for soapstone the first time I saw one. (Random aside: That was actually when I first found hearth.com, came here and read the reviews. Who knew there was a forum?) When I bought a stove for my new-to-me house, I figured it would be a once in a lifetime purchase, and went for the Heritage. I have never regretted that purchase. Having spent my share of time huddling around various stoves waiting for them to get warm, I don't consider my stove a slow warmer. Perhaps because the glass throws off a lot of heat, perhaps because lighting off a stove is usually part of a chore circuit (clean glass, empty ashes, lay fire, light fire, feed cat, feed dog, start dinner, carry in more wood, tend fire, work on dinner, yadda)--by the time I'm ready to enjoy the heat, it's there. But really--I just find this so much of a non-issue. The stove holds the fire, the fire makes heat. In no way am I shivering an hour later waiting for the stove to throw out heat.

As for the front-door ash spillage issue, I find that's a non-issue for me, also. I do most of my stove tending from the front, and don't have a problem with ash or smoke spilling out. Every couple of days, as I clean out ashes, I whisk off the few errants ashes sitting on the lip outside the door. I'm thinking the spillage might be a result of doing primarily side-loading--in the process, you push wood up against the glass, and it burns down and spills out when you open the door. Possible?

And oh, I love my big glass window. And I always burn E-W, and get great fires. Primary air intake is front and center and low.

All this having been said, I wonder that no-one has commented on the amazing sale going on at Woodstock on the Fireviews, Keystones, etc. They have slashed prices to make more production room for the new stove, and if I were in the market for one of these, I'd pounce.

Logroad, I say follow your heart in this decision, after your mind has finished the homework. I did, and no regrets. BTW, I'm heating a 2Ksf house in central Alaska, and that stove carried us through when the boiler died last January. I agree with the above recommendation: if you have an 8" chimney, take a good look at the Equinox. Keep us informed--we like to hear how these things work out.

 

[mhrischuk]

I've been burning my Hearthstone Clydesdale insert for a couple of days to get a feel for it. It's a cast iron insert with soapstone fire brick. It starts putting out heat about as soon as the top gets warm... I would think no different than any other stove. This one is a little different as the top has no soapstone. So far, as a newbee to woodburning, I have found this stove to be pretty much a no brainer to operate. It almost can't be overfired. You would have to try hard to over fire it. Heat production from the fan is way more than I ever expected so it must be doing a good job at pulling heat off the stove and into the house. My place is 3300 sf long ranch. I have about 900 sf closed off .... this insert seems to easily be able to heat half of this house... remains to be seen when it gets really cold. Sitting a fan on the floor in the foyer blowing into the room with the stove really works well... also beyond my expectations.

I sure learned alot on this site. Thanks all of your time helping out.

Now to get off the computer and get the Equinox installed.

 

[woodlot]

Well, after much thought I ordered a wood stock hybrid this morning.They told me delivery would be 2nd week of Dec. They also said pictures of the new stove should be on their website hopefully today.I appreciate all of the input from this great website,the information on this forum is invaluable.I certainly will post my experience with this new"soapstone" stove,and will be checking this website for other members experiences as well.Thanks..

 

[mhrischuk]

Looks like fun getting an new stove that just happens to be the latest and greatest.

 

[firefighterjake]

Hehheh . . . I'm planning on leaving with a PH . . . my plan is to have Backwoods and Flatbed to provide a distraction -- maybe have Dennis fake a seizure when someone suggests Dennis should split his wood horizontally . . . and when everyone's back is turned I plan to load the stove (while still burning) into my pick up . . .

I don't know why I just saw this, but I almost LMAO. Jake, if you pull this off, I want video of Dennis doing the "choking chicken". What is Flatbed going to do......administer CPR? And who is going to suggest Dennis split horizontal?......I am just thinking they will never let hearth.com back to Woodstock ever again. ;-P Wish I could come :exclaim:

Drats . . . foiled again . . . Flatbed left before I could get him and Dennis to provide the distraction . . . which is actually a shame since he won the Maine Prize Package . . . which then was given to the runner-up . . . some fellow who hangs out in the boiler room section here . . . Fred may have been his name . . . I forget . . . blame it on the free Woodchuck cider.