cast iron vs steel
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Bioburner
Moderator
I think its more of how much steel or cast iron. There is a lot of cool cabinet stoves and then there is stoves like the Harman p series that is a heavy hot body stove. A cool cabinet stove does not radiate much heat but relies on the exchanger to put heat into a area.
john193
Minister of Fire
The xxv won't scold you if you touch the stove at full blast, the p series will. The xxv radiates nearly no heat as compared to the p series.
Snowy Rivers
Minister of Fire
If you have a space that will allow the install of a stove that can radiate heat as well as pass the warm air from the exchanger you can likely get better heating overall.
Now there are the considerations of pets, kids and such.
Personally, I prefer the cold body stove with the heat out the front only, as it allows some very creative installs.
The cast stoves are a tad more fragile than a welded body stoves are, but both have a place.
I have owned both types, but prefer the welded body type.
Just some thoughts.
Snowy
Now there are the considerations of pets, kids and such.
Personally, I prefer the cold body stove with the heat out the front only, as it allows some very creative installs.
The cast stoves are a tad more fragile than a welded body stoves are, but both have a place.
I have owned both types, but prefer the welded body type.
Just some thoughts.
Snowy
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
From what know cast iron can take a slightly higher temp before melting,but cast iron cracks much easier and is much much harder to weld. All things considered Ill take the steel any day.
Stevekng
Feeling the Heat
It all depends on the type of steel you are referring to . There is a cold rolled steel category that is a 1018 Rc 5 to 20. That stuff is crap and is about as stable as balsa wood. There is also a hot rolled variety of steels as well as forged steel, which is the most desirable process for parts manufacturing. There is 4140 heat treat, 300 series stainless, 600 series stainless, 400 series stainless and a lot of exotic steel alloys.
Cast iron is the same. there aren't as many varieties but the quality is most important. The volume of sand in the casting and any voids within the casting degrade the life of the iron, leading to it being fragile, and will lead to cracks and breakage. China is not known for being a source of quality castings.
Bioburner
Moderator
Or stoves. Window mounted home burning stoves with bad burn pots. Pet food and baby formula.
john193
Minister of Fire
I agree for the most part but some responsibility lies with the parent company as well. High quality requires extra scrutiny and oversight in China. Look at Apple, you'd be hard presses to find people who think an iphone is poorly made.
For the most part however, companies outsource solely for the all might buck. However there are a few companies that do it while still retaining quality.
Lake Girl
Moderator
Just cleaned a new to me 2nd hand Sabrina, made with a combination of cast and steel. Looks well constructed but time will tell, been a wood burner since 1981 but needed something a little less labor intensive.
Yep, you still "Get what ya pay for"... even in China. They have excellent quality control, when you pay for it. They will have someone check every single piece that goes in a crate if you pay for it. But as John pointed out, a lot of the Companies doing business over there are focused on maximizing profits.
Snowy Rivers
Minister of Fire
The cast iron question is not an easy one.
What is in the IRON in the way of it's alloy ?? higher nickel or chromium will make the iron far tougher.
Engine blocks, which see a bazillion duty cycles are usually cast from a high nickel content formula.
Just plain low grade gray iron can be pretty much crap.
A graphite based iron is prone to cracking, as it is porous due to the graphite thats in the structure.
The extreme and often uneven heating can result in cracks in the casting.
Drop a cast stove, or hit it hard, and you may crack it.
Most steel stoves are made from mild steel sheet that is cut, formed and welded easily.
Using alloy steels is expensive and not needed for such items.
Many alloy steels do not react well with repeated hot cold duty cylcles.
Mild steel will handle repeated duty cycles without issue.
Castings can be made to reflect beautiful designs, with decorative scroll work and such, buttttttttttt
the issue of cracking is always a concern.
The big issue is that castings, to be of any real worth, need to be cured well.
A "green" casting is going to move a lot during its first few duty cycles, and WARP
Cast stoves are made in pieces, and then the pieces are bolted together to form the stove body.
Many times there will be cast iron parts and steel parts that all bolt together to form the finished product.
Steel pellet stove can be handled pretty rough, and short of bending or denting are good to go.
Spindly cast legs are always a nightmare when moving.
They look nice, but if bumped wrong can snap off.
The welded pedestal is stronger, but at the sacrifice of looks and style.
What is in the IRON in the way of it's alloy ?? higher nickel or chromium will make the iron far tougher.
Engine blocks, which see a bazillion duty cycles are usually cast from a high nickel content formula.
Just plain low grade gray iron can be pretty much crap.
A graphite based iron is prone to cracking, as it is porous due to the graphite thats in the structure.
The extreme and often uneven heating can result in cracks in the casting.
Drop a cast stove, or hit it hard, and you may crack it.
Most steel stoves are made from mild steel sheet that is cut, formed and welded easily.
Using alloy steels is expensive and not needed for such items.
Many alloy steels do not react well with repeated hot cold duty cylcles.
Mild steel will handle repeated duty cycles without issue.
Castings can be made to reflect beautiful designs, with decorative scroll work and such, buttttttttttt
the issue of cracking is always a concern.
The big issue is that castings, to be of any real worth, need to be cured well.
A "green" casting is going to move a lot during its first few duty cycles, and WARP
Cast stoves are made in pieces, and then the pieces are bolted together to form the stove body.
Many times there will be cast iron parts and steel parts that all bolt together to form the finished product.
Steel pellet stove can be handled pretty rough, and short of bending or denting are good to go.
Spindly cast legs are always a nightmare when moving.
They look nice, but if bumped wrong can snap off.
The welded pedestal is stronger, but at the sacrifice of looks and style.
Snowy Rivers
Minister of Fire
The cast iron question is not an easy one.
What is in the IRON in the way of it's alloy ?? higher nickel or chromium will make the iron far tougher.
Engine blocks, which see a bazillion duty cycles are usually cast from a high nickel content formula.
Just plain low grade gray iron can be pretty much crap.
A graphite based iron is prone to cracking, as it is porous due to the graphite thats in the structure.
The extreme and often uneven heating can result in cracks in the casting.
Drop a cast stove, or hit it hard, and you may crack it.
Most steel stoves are made from mild steel sheet that is cut, formed and welded easily.
Using alloy steels is expensive and not needed for such items.
Many alloy steels do not react well with repeated hot cold duty cylcles.
Mild steel will handle repeated duty cycles without issue.
Castings can be made to reflect beautiful designs, with decorative scroll work and such, buttttttttttt
the issue of cracking is always a concern.
The big issue is that castings, to be of any real worth, need to be cured well.
A "green" casting is going to move a lot during its first few duty cycles, and WARP
Cast stoves are made in pieces, and then the pieces are bolted together to form the stove body.
Many times there will be cast iron parts and steel parts that all bolt together to form the finished product.
Steel pellet stoves can be handled pretty rough, and short of bending or denting are good to go.
Spindly cast legs are always a nightmare when moving.
They look nice, but if bumped wrong can snap off.
The welded pedestal is stronger, but at the sacrifice of looks and style.
I have owned both, but if I have the choice would buy a steel stove.
Just some thoughts
What is in the IRON in the way of it's alloy ?? higher nickel or chromium will make the iron far tougher.
Engine blocks, which see a bazillion duty cycles are usually cast from a high nickel content formula.
Just plain low grade gray iron can be pretty much crap.
A graphite based iron is prone to cracking, as it is porous due to the graphite thats in the structure.
The extreme and often uneven heating can result in cracks in the casting.
Drop a cast stove, or hit it hard, and you may crack it.
Most steel stoves are made from mild steel sheet that is cut, formed and welded easily.
Using alloy steels is expensive and not needed for such items.
Many alloy steels do not react well with repeated hot cold duty cylcles.
Mild steel will handle repeated duty cycles without issue.
Castings can be made to reflect beautiful designs, with decorative scroll work and such, buttttttttttt
the issue of cracking is always a concern.
The big issue is that castings, to be of any real worth, need to be cured well.
A "green" casting is going to move a lot during its first few duty cycles, and WARP
Cast stoves are made in pieces, and then the pieces are bolted together to form the stove body.
Many times there will be cast iron parts and steel parts that all bolt together to form the finished product.
Steel pellet stoves can be handled pretty rough, and short of bending or denting are good to go.
Spindly cast legs are always a nightmare when moving.
They look nice, but if bumped wrong can snap off.
The welded pedestal is stronger, but at the sacrifice of looks and style.
I have owned both, but if I have the choice would buy a steel stove.
Just some thoughts
I like cast stoves better. But you are just basically paying a little more for looks. Because the guts are made from plate steel. I wish they would come out with one were the whole thing was made out of thick cast iron. (Except burn pot)
alternativeheat
Minister of Fire
You know what a P61 runs and feels like, the same as your P43, just a bit bigger and slightly hotter when burning really hot ( more surface area). Do they have an XXV at the stove shop they could fire up for you and you could experience first hand ? Then instead of guessing how a cast stove feels you will know.
BGStG1aholic
Member
- Oct 16, 2012
- 107
^^^^ THIS ^^^^
This is something to consider between these stoves
My old Avalon would put a burn scar on your arm if you brushed against it when using the controls, I could almost boil water on it(tried it once)
My new cast XXV puts out a tremendous amount of heat while the exterior remains below skin burn temps. unless you touch it for more than a few seconds on the side, just a casual bump or rub isn't gonna burn you like some other stoves will. It also makes it a bit easier dumping the pellets into the hopper not having to worry about getting scorched or melting the bag because of accidental contact. Kinda handy when you get older
It appears to me that the back and top of my Sabrina's firebox are cast, while the sides are stainless, as is the rest of the body. On the outside, the top and vent area are cast as well.
BGStG1aholic
Member
- Oct 16, 2012
- 107
If you're worried about a kid touching it by accident the XXV is the way to go. They WILL jump but won't sustain scarring burns from just accidental contact whereas other stoves will burn the heck outta ya just by brushing against it.
Lake Girl
Moderator
If concerned about children and accidental bumps, they do make gates that can be put up to keep them a safe distance away. Aesthetically not as pleasing but keeps the little ones safe. Apparently easy to remove sections when required for stove maintenance.
When we first bought our house on the lake, it had a valley comfort wood stove. My daughter's first word was "hot" and she never got a burn. That was 23 years ago - I've learned a lot since then
When we first bought our house on the lake, it had a valley comfort wood stove. My daughter's first word was "hot" and she never got a burn. That was 23 years ago - I've learned a lot since then
Enigma869
Feeling the Heat
We had an Accentra insert (cast iron) in our last house and now have a P68 (steel). The difference is quite significant. I made the mistake of touching the top of my P68 when we first got it and thought I was going to be going to the emergency room. The top of the Accentra wasn't even warm, when the stove was running full blast (which due to its limitations was ALWAYS). I could actually rest the plastic pellet bag on top of the Accentra while I was filling the hopper. There is zero chance you're doing that with a steel stove...unless you want quite the mess on your hands. The P series also radiates MUCH more heat into the room than my Accentra did while dialed down (i.e. a maintenance burn). I guess the cast iron doesn't allow all that heat to escape the way steel does.
Hoot23
Minister of Fire
When we first got our stove 3 years ago my son was 2 1\2. I shut the stove down and cleaned it. I fired it up and let it get hot, but not hot enough to burn him, but hot enough to know to stay away. He touched it and jumped back and said hot and ran off and started playing again. We have never had a gate around it and he steers clear of it. Never had problem with it
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