Castile fire roaring!!!

[welshcob]

I managed to get my Quad Santa Fe roaring tonight, maybe the third time in a year, (after putting four ton of pellets through the little darling.) Anyhow, I had dumped the firepot when I got home from work and everything was cool, but an hour later it started to rumble big time, serious vibration noise and all. I shut down the thermostat and once I was satisfied it HAD shut down I went off to the dog training club for a couple hours to let things cool off. On my return I set out to clean the stove and immediately found the problem - clinkers had formed a bridge in the firepot, so pulling the dump rod didn't do the job, I had to stir it up a little bit with a screwdriver and then dump it. This happened once or twice last year, different pellets, its just a thing that can occur. Pulling that rod on the Quads is really easy but every once in awhile its not 100% effective. No big deal, just do a visual inspection to make sure the crud gets cleaned out.

 

[CenterTree]

[smalltownCan I hazard a novice guess? Because my issue is random what if just before the thermostat turned off the call light the augure had just dumped a good number of pellets (you know how sometimes it drops a few and other times a lot) then went into shutdown. If these last pellets were not completely burned and upon the next call for heat the stove dumps in its’ good share of startup pellets might there be a “random” time when I have too many pellets in the pot and have the accompaning “Ed Sullivan Fire” (really big fire) untill these pellets burned down? Center Tree stated after waiting 20-30 seconds his burt down to a normal fire. I am not so sure I have the courage to last that long given the noise and size of the fire, but I may try to steel myself for the 30 seconds to see if it clears. The problem is catching a random occurance.

Sad to see yet another castile user with the same problem as I have. Sadder yet that QUadrafire hasn't addressed this issue. I have only fired my stove ONE NIGHT this season, and YES, it still made that horrible rumble. I will burn my OIL furnace this year until I can find a solution. The RUMBLE is so load I cannot use the stove due to our small children in the house. It wakes everyone and scares the life out of all of us. Anyway, I am still leaning toward the theory of the burn pot not getting the proper amount of air and possibly the door gasket is where there may be a problem. I am quite certain that my feed rate is good. I can't turn it down too much lower. I believe the NOISE is from the fire craving more air and trying to suck it IN from anywhere it can ( ie the door).

 

[tjnamtiw]

GotzTheHotz Thanks.
I would be surprised if it was the feed rate since it has been feeding ok in its present position for at least 4 bags.

It IS the feed rate if you have flames to the baffle on LOW setting! They should not be that high even on HIGH setting! Some people have the feed rod closed as far as it will go. Don't be afraid to slow it down. Put it on HIGH and keep adjusting down to get the flame at 4", like people are trying to tell you.

 

[tjnamtiw]

I managed to get my Quad Santa Fe roaring tonight, maybe the third time in a year, (after putting four ton of pellets through the little darling.) Anyhow, I had dumped the firepot when I got home from work and everything was cool, but an hour later it started to rumble big time, serious vibration noise and all. I shut down the thermostat and once I was satisfied it HAD shut down I went off to the dog training club for a couple hours to let things cool off. On my return I set out to clean the stove and immediately found the problem - clinkers had formed a bridge in the firepot, so pulling the dump rod didn't do the job, I had to stir it up a little bit with a screwdriver and then dump it. This happened once or twice last year, different pellets, its just a thing that can occur. Pulling that rod on the Quads is really easy but every once in awhile its not 100% effective. No big deal, just do a visual inspection to make sure the crud gets cleaned out.

One problem I am seeing with my Castile is that the pull rod for the dump valve gets hung up even with a clean pot floor. If it doesn't close all the way, you will get one heck of a blast going with the extra air coming through the gap where the trap door didn't close all the way. The pull rod set up is lousy on the Castile but good on the Sante Fe.

 

[smalltown]

Ok just to beat a dead horse about my Castile roaring.
I do not want to appear rude, but I cannot seem to covey in a post that my Castile roar is not the normal noise that you might hear if the stove was on the high point in a cycle. I have heared the whistles and the occasional dull rumbling that the Castile makes when the stove is burning pretty good. When my problem occured the stove had been operating normally for hours on the low heat position when suddenly it would roar and the fire would almost be as wide and as tall as the window. I mean a big "mean" looking and sounding fire. Both times that this occured we were not in the room so we were not able to catch what the heck transpired. We have not let the stove run unattended since then. I took a picture while on the low heat position of the really low flames and the higher flames as it cycled. I had hoped to get a picture of the big fire event so you could see just what happens, but off course it would not happen while I sat with a camera handy. I know if you saw a photo of the "mean" fire you would say "Oh I didn't think you meant a fire that big"


I checked the door it didn't appear to be warped I checked everything anybody suggested even if I thought otherwise. So I decided to try the ever popular suggestion of a too high feed rate. (although I thought if it were too high my flames would be higher than normal all the time) I marked the position of the fuel adjustment rod to compare just how much I changed the feed rate.

Undaunted (well maybe a little) Yesterday I deliberately ran it out of pelllets and took a look. The only thing that I did not like ( I thought it was a minor issue) was the feed plate set screw that holds the plate flat against the bottom of the hopper (not the wingnut)appeared to be too loose. It was more loose than I thought it should be and pellet debris was getting under it and lifting it. I removed the debris and thightened it until the plate just slid back and forth without any verticle slop. I then adjusted the feed rate all the way it can be closed. Next I cleaned the hopper and the rest of the stove except the cleanout "T".

I did notice (accidently) that when cleaning the fire pot and pulling the rod that the pot bottom door did not close completely on every occasion, but a simple nudge with the tip of a finger on the knob caused the door to snap shut. I don't think that was my issue as I would imagine the stove would not have run normal for hours/days in that position. I would think there would have been problems right from startup.

I restarted the stove with a couple of cups of pellets and observed the flame cycle on all three heat positions for a while. Twice I adjusted the feed to give more pellets and presently the fuel adjustment rod is 3/8" more closed than before I started.
So far we are running ok. The flames are a little lower than before, but seem to be accebtable. Since my problem appeared to be random all I can do is run the stove as much as I can and see if it re-occurs (hopefully not).

Despite this we are still happy with the stove, but just hope we can solve the "big mean" fire issue and regain confidence.
Thanks for all the suggestions!

 

[tjnamtiw]

Glad to hear you backed down the feedrate, Smalltown. That's a step in the right direction! My trap door on my Castile was just the opposite. It was VERY tight. I dropped it down at Kap's suggestion and put NeverSeez on the bushing and wear surfaces, then retightened it. It slides easily now. Kap says the maximum gap of the trap door to the burn pot should be no more than a dime's thickness and less if possible on the side opposite the hinge. Remember the 4" height in HIGH for the flame. Don't screw with the feed setting on the other levels. They will take care of themselves. Remember it is a 30,000 btu stove, not a 100,000 btu one so on LOW it is probably only putting out around 10,000 btu's.

 

[Czech]

small, I Do know what you are talking about, see the thread below back when I first got my stove. Shake the house roar, correct? To this day, I believe my issue was airflow related, coupled with resonance, meaning the perfect combination of airflow and exhaust length and everything else that goes on when you ignite fuel in a negative pressure firebox (positive pressure blow touch!). I had the stove reps our twice and even talked to H&H (one guy told me to drill an additional hole in the 'ski slope' part of the pot, didn't go there), anyways my stove finally settled down and does not do this anymore. My theory is that being a brand new stove, the airflow was just too darn perfect, and the set up I have is perfect for resonance (I do stress that word, remember the video of that bridge?). I'm on year 5 now and I still love the stove, like I said now that it has been used just a bit (20+ tons of pellets, corn, horse food, dog food, peanut shells, the list goes on) I don't have this issue anymore. Otherwise you're checking everything that needs to be checked imho, also note if I recall correctly there was an issue with some combustion fans years ago, I've replaced mine x 3 and one of those times was to trouble shoot the roaring problem which, again if I recall correctly, helped. Good luck!

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/1074/

 

[kbjelka]

One other tip on your burn pot door not shutting. Mine seems to develop an epoxy like varnish coating that jams it up once in a while. When the door gets a bit sticky I give it a really good scraping with a gasket scraper, check out sears or mac tools. Looks like a screwdriver only sharp and made of carbon steel. I scrape the hell out of it till she opens and closes smoothly. I also ALWAYS make sure the door is completely shut each daily cleaning. That being said I think your feed rate was causing the baffle high flames on low. My flame rarely clears the top of the burn pot on low. Don't get frustrated, you will get in a maintenance groove and the Castile will serve you trouble free. These stoves are pretty complicated and it's a learning curve for all of us.

 

[welshcob]

Yup, if we seem a bit casual about the "roar", it's only because we've experienced it and talked about it here on the forum before. Believe me, the first time it happened to me I KNEW the thing was going to explode and the whole house would burn down. And no matter how many times I've seen it happen (well, only three times), it is NOT something that I would just let burn that way When it happens I shut things down immediately, just don't be tempted to pull the plug and turn off the exhaust fan.<G>

But it does seem to happen when the stoves are new (my installers did warn me about it, so apparently a very common phenomenon). And, as I reported the other night, when the clinker bridges across the pot and doesn't fall when the pot is open, strange things can happen. But the only time so far that I felt REALLY concerned about the stove was when I had somehow not fastened the door tightly - it sucked in tight enough to create a vaccuum and get the stove running, but it didn't run RIGHT and I ended up with a pot full of pellets roaring away with flasmes licking up the feed chute - that WAS scarie and I am very careful with the door latch now.

And all things said, I leave my stove on the thermostat all day while I'm at work, and all night while I'm sleeping on the second floor. After a year with it I feel quite comfortable - after all, if it takes off it makes enough noise I'm sure to notice!

 

[ablejoy]

I have my stove roar also sometimes when there is a build up of pellets in the pot mostly if stove cycles on and off. I don't worry about it you could always empty the burn pot or let it settle out.

 

[smalltown]

I have my stove roar also sometimes when there is a build up of pellets in the pot mostly if stove cycles on and off. I don't worry about it you could always empty the burn pot or let it settle out.

Well today I heard a noise and rushed in to see what was happening. This time the wife had been sitting there when it started. The stove was running on the thermostat and had just started up automatically. The fire was not nearly as large an event as I had seen before my readjusting the feed rod etc. yesterday. We were able to watch how the stove acted and after what "seemed" like 5 minutes the stove quieted down to the regular flames that I expected. I guess that in reducing the feed rate it also reduced the big scary fire to a more manageable fire that was higher than normal, but burnt down to a normal level. Later I watched as the stove auto started again and there were no large unexpected flames as with the previous auto start other than the higher flames from the 4 minutes of auto high setting.

I am feeling much better about what was happening and do have to agree with AZ Pellet Guy in the previous post that somehow there must occasionally be a buildup of pellets in the pot that causes the bigger than normal fire randomly if using a thermostat. When I have watched the Castile fire pot it appeared to burn up most of the pellets as it was shutting down, but maybe from time to time it doesn't.

One picture from the auto start the other after it calmed down and the flames were a lot lower.
Hard to capture a good picture of flames: with the high flames no flash from camera with low flames the camera needs a flash.

At least my big "Ed Sullivan" fire is now no where as large as it had been. Well keep watching!

 

[tjnamtiw]

I would still back it down another 1/4". Those flames are really too high in left photo.

 

[ablejoy]

Smalltown

I have my feed rate all the way down then backed out 1/4 open and my flare up is not as high as yours. I am burning hardwood pellets not the best kind. Penningtons I bought for $2.00 per bag this spring @ Walmart. They have a lot of fines but still burn o k. Try closing your feed all the down then come up 1/4 and see if its better. Do run on high 30 minutes and see how high the flame. Mine is 4"-5" high.

 

[kbjelka]

Couple questions...

1. What brand of pellets are you using?

2. Are you pressing the reset button at any of these startups?

3. How often do you dump the burn pot?

4. Do you give the bottom of the burn pot a quick scrape with the supplied scraper tool at each dump?

5. What settings were the pictures taken at low-med-high?

 

[smalltown]

tjnamtiw yes they are high I wish I had a photo of them when I had the bigger fire my "Ed Sullivan" Fire before I lowered the feed rate.

AZ Pellet Yes after adjusting the feed rate rod I ran the stove on all three heat positions and especially on the high to observe the approx 4" flames above the burn pot per the manual..

Couple questions...

1. What brand of pellets are you using?

2. Are you pressing the reset button at any of these startup?

3. How often do you dump the burn pot?

4. Do you give the bottom of the burn pot a quick scrape with the supplied scraper tool at each dump?

5. What settings were the pictures taken at low-med-high?

Groundhog
1. I am using Maine Choice pellets.

2. No I am not pressing the reset buttons on start-up.

3. We dump the burn pot each morning. Currently not running the stove overnight until we are once again confident we are OK.

4. I don't scrape the burn pot at each dump as we have no clinkers just a few soft clumps in with the regular small amount of ash, both dump easily into the ash pan. I put my head in the stove yesterday to really look down at the burn pot. I saw nothing to scrape looks really good except for staining. I dragged the scraper back and forth anyway it's pretty clean. I also cleaned out the very small air holes at the bottom rear of the burn pot with a tooth pick to be sure they were open.

5. The pictures were both taken while on the low heat setting.

What surprises me is that the picture that shows a larger fire is really a much smaller fire than before I lowered the feed rate yesterday. I was lamenting to my wife that because my big fire was random I was unable to get a picture to post for everybody. So after I lowered the feed rate yesterday and we observed another larger than expected fire (not as high as before lowering the feed rate) I ran to get the camera to capture it. What was even more surprising that people think this fire is too large. I wish in a way I could show you the big fire before adjusting the feed rate. I think one thing that escapes most people reading this post is that the stove runs fine otherwise. Yesterday after we took those photos and the fire burned down to what I call normal sized flames the stove functioned all day off and on using the thermostat without any repeat of the high flames. In my last post I was still thinking that there must be from time to time a supply of unburned pellets in the pot that when the stove auto-starts and adds the start-up pellets we have to much fuel and a big fire. Until it burns the extra off. I should have also said it could be that for whatever reason maybe randomly the stove is dumping in too may pellets at startup and again a bigger than normal fire. Personally (novice rambling here) I sat and watched the stove operate and it appears that the control board pulses the augur and dumps pellets. Sometimes when it pulses no pellets drop and sometimes it looks/sounds like more pellets drop. Judging from the look of the augur when the stove was empty that feeding pellets this way is not a precise method, but certainly gets the job done. Also in reading all the old Castile posts I read where people have/had issues with a very noisy rumbling stove. Our stove does not have that issue. When we were hearing the roar it was a result of the big fire consuming so much oxygen. Sure there are from time to time on start-up some minor metal vibration sounds, but that clears up very quickly I imagine from the metal expanding.

 

[ablejoy]

Smalltown

The picture on the left was that when the stove first started or after its been running awhile. I think a flame that size would be on high and not low. Clean the holes in the burn pot there are five with a pistol 38 dia. bore brush. Only a couple of $.
I clean mine every week or if they start to get plugged.

 

[ablejoy]

Smalltown

Sorry I miss read your post.

 

[tjnamtiw]

No, it sure sounds like your stove is running fine at it was just a matter of getting feed rate set so you have the 4" flame on HIGH. My burn pot has nothing but a little ash in it each morning as well. I see that the Castile Service Manual says to clean it every three bags or sooner, if needed. That's a little different than the Owner's Manual. On LOW, my flame and that of some other posters barely makes it out of the pot.
The .38 caliber bore brush is a great idea I have a .58 and .69 caliber brush and a new.40 caliber brush that might do double duty. ?o)