Caution - New gas and intermittent use engines!

[Gooserider]

Just thought I would pass this on - a friend of mine in town (Our most famous tomato farmer for the local folks) also does a wood-guy business, with a bunch of different equipment powered by Honda OHV engines (splitters, conveyors, etc.). He has had severe problems in the past few months with intake valves getting stuck in these intermittently used engines - One he said he was able to work loose, another has jammed hard enough to bend the valve pushrod.

I know that the Honda OHV engines have a generally good reputation for reliability so this seems noteworthy. He is blaming the problem on the new ethanol diluted gas, his suspicion is that the alcohol is washing the lube out of the valve guides in the top end, and allowing the valve to seize up when the engine sits. He says he is now adding a bit of oil in with the gas - I'm not sure what sort or how much, but he claims it is helping.

I don't know if this is a "real" major problem or not, but thought it worth mentioning as a cautionary note for those with splitters, generators, and other such intermittently used engines.

Gooserider

 

[babalu87]

I had to re-tune the engine on my generator when the new gas first came out. I was having issues with it "hunting" when a load was put on it. Since I monkeyed with it the things runs like a champ.

I add stabilizer to everything I get for it and the power equipment (saw, weed whacker, sno-thrower etc.) but would have to say that the generator was the only one that I had to play with.

Guys with boats went through the most hell. Many older boats had fiberglass tanks and the ethanol was causing the older epoxies to deteriorate to the point that it gummed up fuel systems, tanks leaked ETC. it was a nightmare

 

[MrGriz]

IMO, the addition of ethanol to gas is nothing but a nightmare.

It is a good point to take note of the fact that you should add stabilizer to any stored fuel or intermittent use engine that containes gas with ethanol. The fuel has a much, much shorter "shelf life" than straight gas.

 

[keyman512us]

I had to re-tune the engine on my generator when the new gas first came out. I was having issues with it "hunting" when a load was put on it. Since I monkeyed with it the things runs like a champ.

I add stabilizer to everything I get for it and the power equipment (saw, weed whacker, sno-thrower etc.) but would have to say that the generator was the only one that I had to play with.

Guys with boats went through the most hell. Many older boats had fiberglass tanks and the ethanol was causing the older epoxies to deteriorate to the point that it gummed up fuel systems, tanks leaked ETC. it was a nightmare

Babalu...You hit the nail on the head...but something I've heard and am beginning to believe is that "mix gas" for things like saws, weed whackers etc have less chance of "going bad".

How many people have ever heard of "mix gas" ever going bad???

I'm not a chemist but everything I've ever heard is that "mix gas" doesn't go bad. Whetner or not "stabilizer is a part of mix oil" I dunno. I have even heard of guys going so far as to "put a shot of mix oil" into straight gas for things like lawnmowers, snowblowers etc...in lieu of stabilizer (i.e. "it's a cheepskate thing").

Having to add stabilizer is a PIA in my opinion... but when the generator won't "fire up" when you need it??? That's more of a headache.

 

[Gibbonboy]

Not for the real cheapskates, but I put stablilizer in every can of gas that I buy for my equipment. Really nice to walk out in the beginning of a season and things start on the first pull. If you can find the bigger bottles of stabilizer, it's way less than a dollar per 5-gallon can's worth. Besides, when filling the gas can costs close to 15 bucks, I'd like to ensure that it's good for as long as possible.

Ethanol is as big a scam as "Global Warming". The calculation I saw was that to replace 15% of our oil use with corn-produced ethanol, we'd have to plant corn from Maine to Ohio, no roads, buildings, woods, anything- just corn. We should be looking at things like hempseed oil to run diesel engines, not trying to make the fat cats fatter.

 

[Gooserider]

I know the oil that I buy for mix explicitly says it includes stabilizer - It is one of the things I look for when making a purchase. I know it isn't the cheapest way to go, but in the quantitiy I use, I like the convenience and "idiot-proofness" of the little "one shot" bottles of oil to mix w/ one gallon of gas. The local True Value hardware store where I get the stuff carries about a half dozen different brands, about half say they have stabilizer in the bottle, half don't - I only buy the stuff with. What is odd is that the bottles with claim the same quantity as the ones without - either stabilizer doesn't weigh anything, they aren't using much, or you get less oil in the mix... Long as the saws and such don't melt, I don't really care...

Gooserider

I had to re-tune the engine on my generator when the new gas first came out. I was having issues with it "hunting" when a load was put on it. Since I monkeyed with it the things runs like a champ.

I add stabilizer to everything I get for it and the power equipment (saw, weed whacker, sno-thrower etc.) but would have to say that the generator was the only one that I had to play with.

Guys with boats went through the most hell. Many older boats had fiberglass tanks and the ethanol was causing the older epoxies to deteriorate to the point that it gummed up fuel systems, tanks leaked ETC. it was a nightmare

Babalu...You hit the nail on the head...but something I've heard and am beginning to believe is that "mix gas" for things like saws, weed whackers etc have less chance of "going bad".

How many people have ever heard of "mix gas" ever going bad???

I'm not a chemist but everything I've ever heard is that "mix gas" doesn't go bad. Whetner or not "stabilizer is a part of mix oil" I dunno. I have even heard of guys going so far as to "put a shot of mix oil" into straight gas for things like lawnmowers, snowblowers etc...in lieu of stabilizer (i.e. "it's a cheepskate thing").

Having to add stabilizer is a PIA in my opinion... but when the generator won't "fire up" when you need it??? That's more of a headache.

 

[mayhem]

I've never used stabilizer on either my 2 stroke mix or my regular 4 stroke mower gas can...the mower will fire up on the first pull (Honda 6.5hp motor on a Craftsman push mower) in the spring using gas that has sat in the can undisturbed since October (last cut of the year usually). The 2 strokes never fire on the first pull, but really has any 2 stroke ever fired on teh first pull in the history of the internal combustion engine? I don't put anything in the gas cans...just give it a little shake before I open it to make sure its all mixed up.

I've never had an issue with any of this stuff and we've had 10-15% ethanol for years and years...even going back to the early 80's when they started calling it gasohol. The only time I've had an issue at all was when the motor died in my RX-7 shortly after MA mandated MTBE additive in all gasoline, but I strongly think it was pretty ready to let go anyway and that the gas additives may not have even contributed to accelerating the process.

 

[zzr7ky]

Hi -

I'm in the automotive business. In the '80's and '90's i worked with driveability support for dealerships. I have sent many samples of fuel to the labs over the years. Here are my observations:

Folks in states with large active governements get more consistantly formulated fuel. Somebody is watching and there are rules to follow.

Folks in Canada, and more relaxed regulatory states do have a variety of problems directly attributable to fuels with alcohol. However it appears that the cosolvents needed to keep the alcohol and gas from separating are the big and unknown variable. I've seen all manner of damage like the original poster describes, and especially so on intermitant use and special purpose equipment. Fuel lines leap to mind. The valve issue seems very plausable to me.

ATB,
Mike P (Who burns only gas in 2 cycle tools)

 

[rowerwet]

I heard lumberjacks up here were having their saws burn up from the new gas, at least it is better than the MTBE that the stupid EPA made them put in that stuff made small engines run real bad in the extreme cold and some exploded.(like snowmobiles)

 

[firefighterjake]

Interesting thread . . . there is a rather lengthy debate on this very topic at a Maine snowmobile forum that I frequent. So far the general consensus by many is that they are not sure if this is a real issue or simply a concern borne out of not having used this new gas mix, but a number of folks are adding Marine Stabil or some similar products to the gas out of concern that water contamination/condensation may lead to gas/oil/water/ethanol separation problems.

 

[Gooserider]

Interesting thread . . . there is a rather lengthy debate on this very topic at a Maine snowmobile forum that I frequent. So far the general consensus by many is that they are not sure if this is a real issue or simply a concern borne out of not having used this new gas mix, but a number of folks are adding Marine Stabil or some similar products to the gas out of concern that water contamination/condensation may lead to gas/oil/water/ethanol separation problems.

Ditto for arboristsite - seems to me like people have been having gas related problems, real or imagined, ever since the gov't got rid of good gas by making the gas companies take the lead out of it...

Gooserider

 

[beau5278]

The Ethanol in gas isn't the major cause of gas going bad,I was a B&S;tech back in the late 1980s and early 90s,B&S;told us then at the factory schools that gas would only stay fresh for 30 days and anything that sat longer needed fuel stabilizer.As for 2 cycles not needing it,don't believe it,I've found a few 2 cycle engines in the past year that the gas/oil mix had turned to tar in the carburator.And the fellow that claims he never uses any and doesn't have any problems better find a big ole piece of wood to knock on.I've been using fuel stabilizer in anything that sits for over a month for about 15 years,I usually don't put it in every tank full in the summer,just when it gets closer to fall but all of my 2 cycle fuel is mixed with the oil that has the stabilizer in it.As far as the OP,the issue with the intake valves sticking is usually caused by varnish buildup on the valve stem,stabilizer will help that but for extra insurance,run a little wd40 or a few drops of ATF through the carb just before it's shut off when it's going to be sitting for a while.

 

[Jags]

I have a genset that is powered by a very small 4 cylinder Hercules engine (11HP, 1942 era). It was designed for lead gas and had very few hours on the engine. Valves would seize if not started frequently. I cured the whole thing by using a small amount of "marvels mystery oil". A small amount of that provides the upper cylinder and valve train lube that the old gas used to.

I would imagine that this could be adopted if a person had other small engines with sticking parts, due to the alcohol gas.

 

[NoPaint]

In all my old cars and equipment I periodically run Marvels Mystery Oil. Its a good top cylinder lubricant and it doesn't gunk up the engine like normal oil and 2-cycle oil does. The hunting on my cub cadet tractor goes away when I run it and comes back when I don't. I have cleaned the carb too!