Central Boiler E-Classic 3200

[gramseywtu]

We are looking at an E-3200 from Central Boiler to replace an oil fired furnace is a commercial lodge application. Does anyone have any experience with this specific unit -- pro's/con's -- alternate recommendations?

Thanks.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Do a search here on Hearth.com. I know a few member put them in. I know they had some problems, like all newly brought to market stuff.

My recollections are:

1)putting a paperclip somewhere to keep the unit from going out during the shoulder seasons

2)Taking firebrick out as instructed by dealer

3)Putting firebrick back in as instructed by dealer.

What is your load? What part of ADK?

 

[gramseywtu]

We're in Old Forge NY and the current oil fired unit is 250,000 BTU's and we use about 3800 gallons of oil a year.

 

[Chris Hoskin]

I would recommend you also consider a Garn and/or one of the larger Wood Guns.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

What type of wood and how much do you anticipate burning this year?

 

[Gasifier]

I would recommend you also consider a Garn and/or one of the larger Wood Guns.

I would also recommend one of the larger Wood Guns. Check them out and give them some consideration.

http://www.alternateheatingsystems.com/WoodGasification.aspx

I would also recommend storage, but that will get more expensive for you. But also make operating the entire heating system really nice. Either with or without storage, seriously consider a Wood Gun. Built like a friggen tank. And the Stainless Steel option as well. Long life span for your business.

Search and read some threads on here about storage and gassification boilers. Keep us posted. And ask lots of questions. Lots of people on here with lots of knowledge. Later.

Oh, welcome. If you stay here for a while you will find this site like having an excellent support system for your heating system. Whatever way you go. Great bunch of guys and girls on this site. Good luck!

 

[gramseywtu]

Prevalent in the area is birch, beech and maple. We would burn cord wood, cut, split and seasoned for 4 or 5 months. The Central Boiler dealer is in the process of estimating how much wood we will burn with his unit based on our history with oil. This is new for us so we don't really have any idea. We have read this forum and others and have a rough idea, but nothing concrete. He has our oil history usage by month and says he can give us an wood estimate by month.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

So, you will keep the Lodge heated 24/7 from say Columbus day to memorial day? How many showers a day?

If you insist on using 5 month seasoned wood, I believe you will have trouble with any of the units that have forced draft secondary combustion. They are designed for lower MC wood. I know OF fairly well, so I am familiar with the wood species in the area. Do you realize you are going to go through around 20 cord of wood a year?

 

[Gasifier]

Prevalent in the area is birch, beech and maple. We would burn cord wood, cut, split and seasoned for 4 or 5 months. The Central Boiler dealer is in the process of estimating how much wood we will burn with his unit based on our history with oil. This is new for us so we don’t really have any idea. We have read this forum and others and have a rough idea, but nothing concrete. He has our oil history usage by month and says he can give us an wood estimate by month.

The only thing you will want to adjust is the amount of time you season your wood. You will want to get to the point that your wood is seasoned for one full year, or more. But that can be done.

3800 gallons of oil a year x 3.75/gallon = $14,250.00 > 20 cord of wood a year x $225/cord (already c/s) = $4500.00

$14,250.00 - $4500.00 = $9750.00

Not a bad savings. And that is with oil staying where it is. Anytime, the oil could go through the roof.

Just one of the really nice things about the Wood Guns is that all the components on them can be purchased at a heat/supply company or building supply store. Aquastats and circulation pumps. That simple.

 

[skfire]

If OWB is the only option I would strongly recommend taking a look at the Portage and Main Optimizer

SK

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

I assume since you're running a succesful Lodge in the ADK, you have a good bit of sense. Enough sense to be wary of anyone pushing one unit. :smirk:

Do some reading/research B4 you buy.

 

[Gasifier]

I assume since you're running a succesful Lodge in the ADK, you have a good bit of sense. Enough sense to be wary of anyone pushing one unit. :smirk:

Do some reading/research B4 you buy.

Oh I agree completely. What he said. Listen to ISeeDeadBTUs. I don't think you have to be wary of "me" per say. Someone that is seeing dead BTUs? Ehhh, maybe. :lol:

 

[willworkforwood]

We are looking at an E-3200 from Central Boiler to replace an oil fired furnace is a commercial lodge application. Does anyone have any experience with this specific unit -- pro's/con's -- alternate recommendations?

Thanks.

Welcome to the forum. The words COMMERCIAL and REPLACE really caught my eye. I think (truly hope) you mean primary-supplement instead of replace, and will assume you did. "Commercial" ties directly into that, because you WILL need to use some oil. Wood burning is a manual process, and every once in a while the "man"ual will mess up - never our fault, always circumstances beyond our control. Although these circumstances don't happen to me much anymore, when it does happen, I always have to answer to a higher power (the boss). In your case, there will be 10 (?) angry ladies in the office - a prospect that none of us would wish upon their worst enemy. So, in addition to all of the good advice you've already received, you need to have a non-manual source of heat piped, and controlled to kick in instantly, whenever the wood heat supply can't meet demand (regardless of your WB choice). Now, the fossil backup isn't a big deal - most everyone using a WB has some flavor of it. But in your case, things like waiting for a fossil boiler to come back up to temp doesn't sound like a happy thing - you may need to pipe in series to avoid even a small time delay. Might be a good idea to get a top-shelf HVAC person to design the full system for you. Best of luck with it!

 

[Pat53]

We're in Old Forge NY and the current oil fired unit is 250,000 BTU's and we use about 3800 gallons of oil a year.

Yikes,...... 3,800 gallons of oil/year !!? That would cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $13K-$15K annually.

 

[flyingcow]

When i priced an E-Classic(I think 2400) i was told to figure for every 100 gals of oil is equal 1 cord of well seasoned wood. My neighbor has an E-Classic. He's a good friend, talk a lot. He needs his wood seasoned one year. Tried 6 months and the E-Classic didn't like it. basically no matter what you do, you really should seaon wood 1 yr.

 

[henfruit]

I would look at the vigas line the model 100 is rated at 341,000 btu out put.

 

[Gasifier]

henfruit Posted: 14 November 2011 07:09 PM [ Report ] [ Ignore ] [ # 15 ]
I would look at the vigas line the model 100 is rated at 341,000 btu out put.

Ohhhh. I have been waiting for this. Give it to him DeadBTUs! He only recommended one boiler too!

Tarm Sales Guy Posted: 14 November 2011 11:39
I would recommend you also consider a Garn and/or one of the larger Wood Guns.

And while you are at it, give it to that darn old Tarm Sales guy as well for that recommendation of a large Wood Gun.

Thank you in advance for your fairness to all. I appreciate it. :smirk:

:lol:

 

[heaterman]

Outdoor : Portage and Main

Indoor: Garn or a Wood Gun/Econoburn/Eko with storage

Indoor/outdoor available both ways. Royall (a super simple, non gasifying, ASME boiler)

Don't be misled about the storage thing. You need it with the load you have. If you are going to do the correct thing and go with storage just get a Garn and be done with it.

DO NOT get involved with a CB E-Classic series. Sorry if that offends anyone but when I hear of a CB dealer stating that CB has left him hanging high and dry on thousands in warranty claims it does not bode well for the product.

JMHO

 

[Gasifier]

WTU,

I found these threads to be a very interesting read. Each one of these threads is about a side by side comparison with a large Garn and a large Wood Gun at a large facility for a couple of wood burning boilers to handle. Take a read and see what you think. I thought it was interesting.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/71547/ Part 1
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/71548/ Part 2
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/71549/ Part 3
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/71879/ Part 4, 5a, 5b
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/78065/ Part 6

And this one is about the same Wood Gun getting a large storage tank to work with it. Pretty cool.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/77602/

Have a good one man.

 

[heaterman]

WTU,

I found these threads to be a very interesting read. Each one of these threads is about a side by side comparison with a large Garn and a large Wood Gun at a large facility for a couple of wood burning boilers to handle. Take a read and see what you think. I thought it was interesting.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/71547/ Part 1
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/71548/ Part 2
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/71549/ Part 3
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/71879/ Part 4, 5a, 5b
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/78065/ Part 6

And this one is about the same Wood Gun getting a large storage tank to work with it. Pretty cool.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/77602/

Have a good one man.

That was interesting info but the output quoted for the Garn is seriously out of whack. Probably due to how it was loaded.

 

[Gasifier]

That was interesting info but the output quoted for the Garn is seriously out of whack. Probably due to how it was loaded.

Heaterman.

I find what you said interesting. (And I am not being sarcastic this time.) You say the output quoted for the Garn is seriously out of whack. Why do you think that? But you did not say anything about the output quoted for the Wood Gun. I am just curious. I don't know anything about the Garns, but I do believe they are a quality boiler, but that is just from what I have read. I also believe the Wood Gun is a quality boiler as well. Do you own a Garn? And if yes, how do you like it? A serious inquiry. Thanks.

 

[Gasifier]

I also thought this was interesting from Jim in another thread as well. I hope you don't mind Jim.

The fun never ceases. My experience is limited to a Tarm Solo 40 (my own), now in its 5th heating season; a Wood Gun E500 and a Garn WHW3200, both now in their 3rd heating season. The WG and Garn are installed at Deep Portage. Given what I’ve done, I can support simplicity and I also can support some key add-ons, or upgrades if available from the mfr.

As to the Tarm, the controller shuts the draft off when the fire is out, adjusted by its own thermostat, and it shuts the Tarm down completely on overheat. Simple and effective. I also have added 1000 gal pressurized storage. My only changes are wiring the controller to also shut off the circulator when the fire is out, and a stack overheat controller that shuts the draft fan off it the stack temp gets too high. Plus I monitor key system points and data logging as needed, both of which have greatly helped me to understand how the Tarm functions. Since I started weighed wood burns last year and learned that I now can always load the Tarm so that it burns full out and never idles, I am continuing weighed wood burns. Storage makes this possible, along with a couple of sensors and digital panel meters to monitor the storage tank. I have not had any repairs, wear-outs, replacements of any kind with the Tarm.

As to the WG, I know that the mfr says storage is not needed and letting the WG cycle is fine, but I also know that since DP added 4000 gallons of pressurized storage, WG operation has become a breeze and nothing could be simpler. The WG now always takes a full load of wood (100 lbs+) and then walk away. It no longer ever cycles. In this respect it operates much like the Garn, the primary differences being that the WG is kicking out 160F+ water nearly from the start—no need to first heat the tank before hot water is delivered to the system—and that the WG is designed to continuously put out high temperature water, 180F+ or so. The only add-on required for the WG was a motorized boiler return water protection valve, as I think all wood boilers require. Due to installer errors or ignorance, this was not installed or controlled correctly, but that now has been solved through re-plumbing, adding a 2nd sensor and reprogramming the Tekmar controller. What would be very beneficial for the WG is a draft fan and circulator shut down when the wood load has burned out. I’m waiting for the go-ahead from DP to add this, which must be done by or approved by an electrician. There have been no operational or mechanical problems with the WG, other than the mechanical timer failing, which DP did not replace.

As to the Garn, it functions with simplicity: throw in a full load of wood (100+ lbs) and walk away. What also would be very beneficial for the Garn is a draft fan and circulator shut off when the wood load has burned out. DP is following up with the mfr on this. Keeping the draft fan operating (now a mechanical timer) when the wood load has burned out continuously moves lots of air through the Garn tank, and I can’t help but believe that this throws lots of stored btu’s up the stack. Of course, the Garn does not deliver hot water immediately because it needs to heat 3200 gallons of water first. Garn also has advised that efficiency declines in applications where water temp greater than 140F is needed. There have been no operational problems with the Garn, but the draft fan motor has failed 3 times, I believe, and Garn now is providing a different motor than the one that was originally supplied. This new motor was just installed last week. Hopefully this motor will be more dependable.

I would think that lambda or other more sophisticated controllers, including variable speed draft fan, would result in all 3 of these boilers operating more efficiently. But with sufficient storage and the ability to always burn a full load of wood without idling or cycling, I tend to think that all 3 of these boilers are operating at their design best. It would be interesting to see some data on the efficiency gain provided by more sophisticated controllers vs how these 3 operate now.

 

[Gasifier]

I do not know why, but this posted twice, so I erased the text from this one. I do not know if I could have just deleted the whole thing?

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Um, Gas ? ? ?

I think your average idiot can read "TarmSalesGuy"s name and recognize where his bias might be. And I've seen him be pretty even handed with other brands too.

But you seem - for someone that's only used his WG for a short time - to thing Wood Guns are the answer for everyone. Funny that another member here with a bit more WG history than you, thinks they suck. I'd bet both views are extreme.

I think if you chill out you'll realize that people who attempt to understand a new members situation/question can find themselves in a better position to help a newbie than someone who just recommends the one product he/she has used, as if it's the best solution for everything.

There are some very knowledgeable people here that can often assist a new member. Don't make it so they don't want to contribute here.

And of course, if you take issue with my style of conversation, take it up with me privately ;-)

 

[flyingcow]

Outdoor : Portage and Main

Indoor: Garn or a Wood Gun/Econoburn/Eko with storage

Indoor/outdoor available both ways. Royall (a super simple, non gasifying, ASME boiler)

Don't be misled about the storage thing. You need it with the load you have. If you are going to do the correct thing and go with storage just get a Garn and be done with it.

DO NOT get involved with a CB E-Classic series. Sorry if that offends anyone but when I hear of a CB dealer stating that CB has left him hanging high and dry on thousands in warranty claims it does not bode well for the product.

JMHO

This young fella knows what he's talkin' about. K.I.S.S.