cheap black double wall chimney pipe

[trigrman]

Has anyone else used black insulated pipe? I got it at menards because I was on a budget, and it sucks ! I am very new to stove ownership and went up to clean the pipe(It's 6-8 weeks old) and the cheesy screws that are suppose to keep it together were not doing their job. There was black gunk(creosote?) running down the outside. The install is this 6" pipe inside of an existing 8"chimney. Is this install a bad idea or is the pipe junk and should I return it before 90 days are up. I have 4 insulated sections 2' each and 2 unisulated 2'. It's not though anything except a 3' box on a vaulted ceiling- no attic there. Should I use the more expensive stainless. I have really enjoyed burning and cutting wood (just bought a new ms390). The stove is an Englander 13nc bought it on clearance at lowes at the end of this season. It's going now, since it may snow again this week!

 

[begreen]

Normally the double-wall connector pipe is joined to the same brand class A pipe at the ceiling support box and it stays double-wall from stove to this connection. Are these sections all the same brand of pipe? At what pipe joint(s) is the leakage starting from? When you cleaned the pipe was there a lot of gunk? How were the screws a problem?

A picture or two if you could post them, would be worth a hundred words here.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Did you have the crimped end facing down? It's odd to hear that creosote was dripping down the outside.

It sounds like there may be more issues in addition to the pipe. How long has your wood been drying? How hot do you run your stove?

Matt

 

[oconnor]

Has anyone else used black insulated pipe? ...snip.... The install is this 6" pipe inside of an existing 8"chimney. Is this install a bad idea or is the pipe junk and should I return it before 90 days are up. snip...

If you are doing what I interpret from above, and lining your 8" chimney with the 6" smoke pipe , it is a bad idea.

Or, I have read your post wrong, but I wanted to check - I have read folks trying to line thier flue with smoke pipe before, and it is a bad idea.

 

[DAKSY]

If you are doing what I interpret from above, and lining your 8" chimney with the 6" smoke pipe , it is a bad idea.

I think the bad idea is people attempting to cheap out with ANY PART of their woodburning system...
I understand trying to get more bang for your buck.
I'm a single-parent with two kids in college, & my property assessment just went up 700%...
I know everyone LOVES to tell everyone
else how much they saved buying THIS or using THAT, but we're talking FIRE here, folks.
Maybe a less expensive stove is the way to go for most of us, but the main part of a
wood burning system is NOT THE STOVE.
The engine that drives a wood-burning system IS THE CHIMNEY.
It is BY FAR the most important part of your system & it needs to be of the highest quality possible,
& installed meeting all national and/or local codes...
Too many of us here have seen fly-by-night, bubblegum & bailing wire, Rube Goldberg installs, &
some of us here have even installed them.
Every year, countless homes & businesses burn to the basement during heating months.
How many of those fires were caused by the stove?
How many more were caused by the chimney?
How many were caused by a combination of BOTH - PLUS a shoddy install?
Probably a little late jumping in on this here, what with it being the end of March,
but I didn't even know about this site til December & I'm just throwing in my $.02...
Hopefully, I'll still be around for the next couple of heating seasons & I'd like to think my
input will be of help to others with less experience...
Sorry for the rant...

 

[Metal]

When you use a product for something other then it's intended purpose you take responsibility for the outcome. Black Pipe is not intended for use as a liner and it sounds to me like yours installed upside down. If your fireplace needs 6" pipe, you should run 6" single or double wall Black Pipe to an increaser at the roof support box and from there you can use your current 8" double wall insulated pipe (if it is 103HT listed). Your install should look similar to this (if I understand it correctly from the info you provided).

 

[trigrman]

Sorry haven't checkeds this post for a couple days. What I have is an 8'' chimney pipe, I pulled back the plate around it and seems to be a silver color pipe with some insulation and a metal case around that I think it's some sort of chimney unit from the late 60's. Anyway what I did was to install 2 2' sections of single wall black 6 " which goes from the stove to the 8" hole-which seems to be the start of the chimney. And at the 8" hole I used the double wall black 6" -4 pcs of 2'. This configuration extends a few inchs beyond the original 8" top. So to recap it's a 6" liner for an 8" chimney. The book that came with my stove discouraged adapting up in size, It said to use 6" . It was my thinking that double wall through a chimney unit ,( which looks similar to the one in the picture above), would be safer and more likely to perform correctly. I only have 12' of pipe total from stove to cap. As far as the gunk on the outside of the pipe I do have the crimped end down and it's all the same brand. The problem was that the little screws that hold the insulated sections together didn't hold together during installation and the pipe had a small gap. They slid off the center pipe lining the chimney and held the joint open. So they didn't hold it on they held a little off instead. I don't have any death wishes ,but If this senerio is deemed foolish by you guys, is there anything besides tearing up my roof and installing a 6" chimney that would be safe. As far as wood burnt I have been using very dead- no bark left- standing elm, and deadfall black walnut.

 

[oconnor]

OK, that is an odd install. If you need to line the existing chimney, you need to use an actual rated liner, not a smoke pipe substitute - smoke pipe won't hold up to the conditions.

First, you need to stop burning, as what you described does not sound safe, as mentioned by a few others above. Next, determine exactly what the previous chimney is, as it may or may not be suitable for relining with a proper sized liner. A suitable wood fired chimney would usually be 2" thick insulated stainless wall (8 " chimney would be 12" across), but in the early days of stainless chimneys, they used a 1 inch wall, which no longer meets code requirements. As well, if it is damaged, or doesn't have the required airspace gap around it, again, you have a code issue.

Glad you had the time to ask the question - hope you see the concern I have for the setup you describe.

 

[trigrman]

Thanks for the input,I'll look into it right away. Maybe next years burn season will be less dangerous for me than this years Talk to you guys later.

 

[jtp10181]

Sounds like you need to consult a pro who knows what they are doing and can inspect the situation personally and do a safe and legit / legal install.

 

[WidowMaker]

Trigrman

I'm gonna disagree with everybody. I see no reason your installation shouldn't work fine...if it would work as a stand alone smoke pipe system, there is not reason it shouldn't work inside an 8" pipe. Just another layer of insulation. It does sound as if you've got your pipe installed upside down, as you should not have creasote leaking to the outside. You must not be burning hot enought or your burning less then seasoned wood. JMHO an worth exactly what you pay for it...

WidowMaker

 

[North of 60]

Trigrman

I'm gonna disagree with everybody. I see no reason your installation shouldn't work fine...if it would work as a stand alone smoke pipe system, there is not reason it shouldn't work inside an 8" pipe. Just another layer of insulation.
WidowMaker

Hence the name WidowMaker.

 

[oconnor]

Trigrman

I'm gonna disagree with everybody. I see no reason your installation shouldn't work fine...if it would work as a stand alone smoke pipe system, there is not reason it shouldn't work inside an 8" pipe. Just another layer of insulation. It does sound as if you've got your pipe installed upside down, as you should not have creasote leaking to the outside. You must not be burning hot enought or your burning less then seasoned wood. JMHO an worth exactly what you pay for it...

WidowMaker

Here is one reason why - the smoke pipe is designed to be cooled by ambient air and keep the surface temp below 700*F, but the pipe will reach way higher than that when it is inside a confined space. AT higher temps, the pipe will fail earlier than it would in a proper install

That is only one of many reasons - consider insurability of the home as another, and the lack of knowing if the original chimney is safe as another.

I think the original poster is on the right track now - good news.