Checking pellet density at the stove? How to for the techies!

[jtakeman]

This thread will be a test of how I can check pellet desity at the stove. Blimp you watching? Input please from the other techies here would be great!

My plan:

Get a bag of dense pellets Cubex= Pellet A

Get a bag of less dense(you pick the brand if I can get it)

Remove the burnpot from my Omega to give the pellets a straight shot to my ash pan.

Fab a timer relay(still need to do the leg work on this!) to the auger motor to run in a timed interval say ten minutes.

Clean the hopper and purge out the auger.

Test A
Load the hopper with pellet A purge the auger to be sure that it has a good charge and empty the ash pan. Run the timer at the 10 minute setting. Weight the pellets

Clean the hopper and purge out the auger.

Test B
Load the hopper with pellet B purge the auger to be sure that it has a good charge and empty the ash pan. Run the timer at the 10 minute setting. Weight the pellets

Compare the weights of test A and B. The highest weight should have the higher temp????

What do you all think??? Now Blimp be nice OK! I am trying to do a lab test for you here! Vent and OAK are plugged as to not have the wind mess with my test! :cheese:

Off to figure out how to time the auger intervals. I will post something when I have a clue on how to do it!

Testing is complete! Results are here:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/58373/P22/#670016

 

[smoke show]

will be interesting to see the results.

 

[hossthehermit]

Don't you have a manual auger button, that you can use to constantly run the auger? Can't you jumper it, or just hold it?

 

[jtakeman]

Don't you have a manual auger button, that you can use to constantly run the auger? Can't you jumper it, or just hold it?

No manual auger button on the Omega. Trying to do it where there are no variables(me the dumb operator) and as close to perfect as I can get it. I wish it was that easy and thanks for the suggestion. This one is going to drive me batty! I must please everyone or the squabbles will begin! :red: :sick: :grrr:

 

[LI-Mini-Owner]

Hi Jay - What would happen if you just jumped out the proof of fire snap-switch, and ran on highest feed rate for like an hour? What I think would happen on my mini is that the ignition cycle would terminate shortly after turning the stove on b/c it would think there is a fire. Auger would dispense pellets at a even rate, combustion/convection blower would be on but who cares for this test?

BTW - I would bet beer/cup of coffee that a smaller pellet like Somerset would dispense more pellets in a given amount of time, and thus weigh more in your test then a larger pellet, and producing more heat. It's the inverse size-matters principal.


Have fun with the test!

Carl

 

[jtakeman]

I suppose I could disconnect the igniter and both blowers. Jump the POF and the stove would run. But then there would still be a chance at not getting the exact time for each pellet. The timed auger feed looks like the most reliable way to acurately test this. Good suggestion.

I guess this could be done to check against different pellet sizes and I agree that a small pellet would give more fuel to the burnpot. But I bet the weights are so close we will be surprised.

Once we have the weight for each pellet, we might be able to figure out how long the bag would last. So it might be another variable tackled? Just throwing stuff out there!

 

[LI-Mini-Owner]

Something like this timer wired directly to the Auger motor:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DIGITAL-3-WIRE-...912?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3effc2ffd8

$22 with shipping, and when you're done you'll have a handy appliance timer.

 

[krooser]

I'm grabbing a sammich and sitting back waiting for the results...I'd sooner eat that do this myself.

 

[ironpony]

jay,

you have way to much free time.

ken

 

[ironpony]

now for the serious answer
take a cup of each pellet,
seal in a vacuum bag,
remove air
place in known amount of water,
measure displacement of water,
whalaa
density or
density=mass/volume
mass = weight, weigh it on a gram scale
volume = LxWxH
volume of a cylinder = pi times radius squared times height
so start calculating and get back to us

 

[jtakeman]

jay,

you have way to much free time.

ken

Yep! Way to much free time. Injured shoulder and I am stuck on light duty. >:-( sucks!

now for the serious answer
take a cup of each pellet,
seal in a vacuum bag,
remove air
place in known amount of water,
measure displacement of water,
whalaa
density or
density=mass/volume
mass = weight, weigh it on a gram scale
volume = LxWxH
volume of a cylinder = pi times radius squared times height
so start calculating and get back to us

Not what I want to accomplish. Trying to see what a dense pellet does against a less dense pellet. At the stove where it matters as heat.

PFI spec for checking the density of a pellet goes like this.

6.1.1 Bulk Density – Determine in accordance with ASTM E 873 except this method shall
be revised to utilize a 1/4 cubic foot container that is tapped 25 times from 1 inch. In
order to insure that an adequate sample quantity is available for this revised method, a
minimum sample size of 12 pounds (5.44 kilograms) is recommended.

Then maybe I will time how long it takes each to empty the hopper as a time study?

 

[Bxpellet]

Pellet people have way to much time!

 

[jtakeman]

Something like this timer wired directly to the Auger motor:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DIGITAL-3-WIRE-...912?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3effc2ffd8

$22 with shipping, and when you're done you'll have a handy appliance timer.

Looks promising, But I was looking for a precision manual start one shot timer. I might be able to dig one out of the junk pile at work.

If I can't rig one up I might order on of these. Should do and then I can hook it up for the xmas lights.

 

[vvvv]

Pellet people have way to much time!

is that a real cat on the stove?

 

[Bxpellet]

Yes that is her spot all winter long, the other cat stays on the bench across from it with the heat blowing on her,

They have some life!!

If you go to the picture gallery 1st. page for pellet stoves, bottom second from left there is a close up she looks real comfortable

 

[smwilliamson]

Forget timing, count auger revolutions and make sure you start and stop on the measure. I'd bench the auger to accomplish this. On your macine what is it? Ten revolutions or 20?

 

[jtakeman]

Forget timing, count auger revolutions and make sure you start and stop on the measure. I'd bench the auger to accomplish this. On your macine what is it? Ten revolutions or 20?

I could spin it by hand and count the revs. I have never yanked the auger shaft out so IDK what the pitch is on it.

 

[schoondog]

Anyone have an old broken stove that could be stripped and made into a test mule for this kind of work ? Just a thought. It would be easy to hot wire augers,swithes and such and get wieghts etc. I can get my stove to do this I think.... If I had ant time. :coolmad:
Jay, take care of that shoulder, I've had 3 surgeries on mine...... no fun

Schoondog

 

[smwilliamson]

What you need is one of those Harman feed system demo's they have in the shop. About 50lbs and can fit in a bread box.

 

[ironpony]

you will never know the amount of pellets fed into the stove
to many variables in the way the stove feeds pellets
even if you time it, the pellet distrabution will always vary
I think it will be close enough but not exact

you would have to have a known anount of pellets,
feeding a known amount each time,
and burn said quanity, and measure results
feeding them based on time ,you will have different quanitys

cant use weight, because of density of pellet
could use mass but there will be variables in packing

much thought required
I will get back to you

 

[jtakeman]

After some though, I think using the timmer and the auger in the stove is more real world. We want the variables that are involved just as if we were running the stove.

Maybe I am wrong, But with out the variables added. It would be under perfect conditions. We all know the stoves aren't perfect and the shaded pole auger motor will stall. Looks like I opened another can of worms?

I have an old quad that I can play with. But unlike my Omega its doesn't have the digital control. It just runs the auger motor all the time. The heat is adjusted by a sliding plate at the intake of the auger chute. Would this be a better beast to test with?

I did some digging and found the feed time sheet for my Omega. On setting 3 it is on for 3 seconds and off for 7 in pellet mode. I will post the chart. So if I multiply by 6 that would be a minutes worth of fed time. 18 seconds so far. Multiply by 60 would be an hours worth of feed time. 1080 seconds or 18 minutes of feed per hour. My gearbox is a 3 RPM. So that would be a total of 54 RPM of the auger every hour.

Now that I got all that crap figured out what the heck do I do NOW? :shut:

 

[jtakeman]

Anyone have an old broken stove that could be stripped and made into a test mule for this kind of work ? Just a thought. It would be easy to hot wire augers,swithes and such and get wieghts etc. I can get my stove to do this I think.... If I had ant time. :coolmad:
Jay, take care of that shoulder, I've had 3 surgeries on mine...... no fun

Schoondog

I had my MRI today and go back to the doctor on Friday. Lets hope its back to work! If I get stuck and sent home. I want to have something I can tinker on. This project seemed good because its to hot to even think about burning yet. I can go pellet hunting caise I can lift the bags from the car. Definetly cooler in the basement so I have been hanging out down there anyway(YES, I am in the dog house. Don't know what for though)!

But it seems we can't agree on what would be a good density test at the stove. Back to the drawing board? I will figure out something and post something. We can haggle from there!

 

[Pellet-King]

Jay you married?, you must not have kids!!

 

[jtakeman]

Jay you married?, you must not have kids!!

Married = Yes
Kids = Yes one boy. Great kid!

Wifes got 2 kids :lol: :cheese: Hint: 1 is me

 

[Pellet-King]

Just figured with all the great testing you have done you had alot of free time on your hand's~!
Thanks !, Cause of you after 12 yrs of burning i have realized what good pellets there is out there!