chimney fire

[gspro]

I have an 8x12 clay flue, internal masonry chimney lined with a 6" ss flex liner. Last night, the chimney outside the liner caught fire and burned. The house was filled with smoke coming through the bricks and blocks and the first and second floor as well as in the attic. It eventually burned itself out. The chimney was used as a fireplace for probably 50 years or so until I put the liner and englander 30-nc in last fall. I cleaned it (thoroughly, or so I thought) before putting in the liner, but there must have been leakage between the tiles, and / or cracks to allow the creosote into the masonry (right?).
Is it logical to think that the fire would have burned out all the creosote? It burned extremely hot throughout the night. The blocks on the second floor and bricks in the attic were too hot to touch for awhile.
Is there any reason to get insurance involved? I'm thinking that I'll have a contractor come with a camera to determine the integrity of the liner, and based on that, try to make a decision.
Thanks.

 

[Chettt]

Get a pro to look at this one. It doesn't make sense to me at all.

 

[smokinj]

did you have the s/s cleaned this season?

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I'll bet it is clean now! Glad you turned out okay. That certainly has a tendency to concentrate your attention while it is happening.

 

[gspro]

did you have the s/s cleaned this season?

No, I just installed it in October.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

did you have the s/s cleaned this season?

No, I just installed it in October.

gspro, it is usually best to check that chimney at least every other month, especially those who are just getting into wood burning. What we usually find is that new burners usually think or have been told the wood is "seasoned." But that word is used very loosely.

If you are buying wood, be sure to get next year's wood supply at least by March of this year. Get it stacked, leave the stack uncovered until late fall or early winter. Then cover the top only. Leaving the wood pile uncovered allows for excellent evaporation of moisture. Some run out and cover the pile before a rain. That is not necessary at all unless you live where it rains almost every day all summer long. The wood will not soak up the moisture, especially if you stack the wood bark side up. But even if you don't, it is not a sponge so won't take in the moisture. The rain will just run right off of it.

Good luck.

 

[savageactor7]

Scary when that happens ...yeah it probably did clean itself out. I suppose you could let the stove go cold and mirror the chimney tomorrow just for peace of mind...

(...note to self buy a inline damper asap.)

 

[BrotherBart]

Guys his chimney fire was OUTSIDE the liner in the tile chimney surrounding it.

 

[BJ64]

Guys his chimney fire was OUTSIDE the liner in the tile chimney surrounding it.

That is how I understood it. That is the reverse of what I was expecting.

All I can figure is that the clay flue has some stuff stuck onto it, perhaps that glaze stuff we seen pics of. This is all assumption. Perhaps the stuff started flaking off and getting next to the liner and ignited from that.

Something far from usual happened in any case. I am interested to see what further investigation reveals.

 

[gspro]

Yes, the fire was outside of the liner, but, during the event, about a quart of black, 'crispy', soot (creosote?) came down into the stove. It would sound like it was raining inside the pipe once in awhile. It's small flaky light stuff, pitch black. So, could be that there was a fire in the liner that ignited the creosote in the masonry chimney?

 

[savageactor7]

DOH!... now what? Did the liner fail and split somewhere allowing creosote to collect? gspro cleaned the chimney before putting the liner in... could residual creosote or glaze in there to do what he describes. What do you think, liner came apart somehow during past cleaning?

 

[BJ64]

DOH!... now what? Did the liner fail and split somewhere allowing creosote to collect? gspro cleaned the chimney before putting the liner in... could residual creosote or glaze in there to do what he describes. What do you think, liner came apart somehow during past cleaning?

You may be right.

 

[oconnor]

If you had a fire, and smoke came in the house thru chimney walls, you need a real good look at the chimney. You no longer have a code compliant unit based on the smoke comment - sounds like the mortar joints are comprimised in the brick chase.- check with the insurance company to see if they will rebuild.

At the very least, I would have the liner pulled and the tiles/brick checked. I would seriously consider a pre-insulated liner on the reinstall - CZARCARs comment on vermiculite may not be wrong, but it isn't likely the instructions you are going to find with the liner manufacturer. Whatever you do, you need to follow thier instructions - other ideas may work, but thiers is the only approved way - after a fire, your insurance company will likely be paying attention.

 

[Pagey]

I definitely would not burn until I had a professional inspection. Though you say the fire was outside the liner, I find it interesting that you had a quart of black, crispy creosote fall into the stove, thus suggesting it had to come from INSIDE the liner. Is it possible that the fire actually began in the liner and got the liner so hot that the exterior of the liner caught up what was left in the masonry flue?

 

[gspro]

I definitely would not burn until I had a professional inspection. Though you say the fire was outside the liner, I find it interesting that you had a quart of black, crispy creosote fall into the stove, thus suggesting it had to come from INSIDE the liner. Is it possible that the fire actually began in the liner and got the liner so hot that the exterior of the liner caught up what was left in the masonry flue?

That would seem to make sense. Although, even if I burned all green wood (I'm not), would I get enough build up in 2 months of use to cause a fire inside the liner?

 

[BJ64]

That would seem to make sense. Although, even if I burned all green wood (I'm not), would I get enough build up in 2 months of use to cause a fire inside the liner?

I agree. Lets suppose the liner did come apart. That might have messed up the flow and allowed the creosote to deposit. But that should have made the stove operate funny because of the messed up draft.

 

[Pagey]

I definitely would not burn until I had a professional inspection. Though you say the fire was outside the liner, I find it interesting that you had a quart of black, crispy creosote fall into the stove, thus suggesting it had to come from INSIDE the liner. Is it possible that the fire actually began in the liner and got the liner so hot that the exterior of the liner caught up what was left in the masonry flue?

That would seem to make sense. Although, even if I burned all green wood (I'm not), would I get enough build up in 2 months of use to cause a fire inside the liner?

I'm honestly not sure how long buildup would take. I recall one thread on here where someone posted some of the worse pics of creosote I'd ever seen, and from what I recall, the buildup in that particular thread was occuring pretty quickly.

Tell us again how long you've been burning since you last cleaned the liner. Also, tell us a little more about your wood supply. Have you had any problems getting the stove up to a nice, stable cruising temp? Is your glass staying relatively clean?

 

[LLigetfa]

My guess is the existing flue was not cleaned well enough and the constant heat radiated from the liner dried out and flaked off some glazed creosote which then collected next to the liner. A fire inside the liner then ignited the creosote on the outside and the rest is history.

The liner could well be done like dinner and needs to be pulled and inspected. The existing chimney needs another cleaing and inspection before the liner is put back. Given how leaky the chimney is, the gap between the liner and chimney should be poured solid with cementitious insulation.

Given the cost to remediate, getting the insurance company involved might be prudent.

 

[gspro]

I definitely would not burn until I had a professional inspection. Though you say the fire was outside the liner, I find it interesting that you had a quart of black, crispy creosote fall into the stove, thus suggesting it had to come from INSIDE the liner. Is it possible that the fire actually began in the liner and got the liner so hot that the exterior of the liner caught up what was left in the masonry flue?

That would seem to make sense. Although, even if I burned all green wood (I'm not), would I get enough build up in 2 months of use to cause a fire inside the liner?

Tell us again how long you've been burning since you last cleaned the liner. Also, tell us a little more about your wood supply. Have you had any problems getting the stove up to a nice, stable cruising temp? Is your glass staying relatively clean?

The liner was installed new last fall. The wood I'm burning is tops that were cut 4 years ago, although I didn't chunk and split them until last summer. The glass goes from clean to dirty and back every couple days. I load the stove in the morning with the damper fully open, let it burn for 30-40 minutes, nice and hot, then scale it way back to shut (by damper I mean the draft control on the bottom of the stove).
Another thought, is that I had to add a 3' extent onto the 25' liner, maybe it came loose when I was hooking it up. One of the masonry companies I called has a camera that they stick up the chimney, maybe that would show if the extension came apart.

Edited to add: But, the extension is 3' from the top, so it doesn't make sense that it would be at fault.

 

[Pagey]

How dirty is "dirty" when you say the glass gets dirty every couple of days? Do you mean "dirty" as in "can't see through it, have to scrape it with a razor" dirty or just that little irritating white film? I'm burning oak and pine that were bucked up early last year, but not split until October of this year, and all I'm getting is the occasional white film.

 

[brink]

Is there insulation stuffed around the top just below the cap to seal the gap around the liner and the clay tile? Is there a block off plate or insulation around the damper area to close it off? Would these things even matter?

 

[BJ64]

My guess is the existing flue was not cleaned well enough and the constant heat radiated from the liner dried out and flaked off some glazed creosote which then collected next to the liner. A fire inside the liner then ignited the creosote on the outside and the rest is history.

I had the same idea but GSpro states all that was cleaned during the install.

I'll take his word on that and I also think his wood is fine as well.

So, what we have for facts is

something was on fire between the clay and the new SS liner
during the fire, creosote looking goo fell into the stove
before the fire his door glass turned black even though he was trying to burn correctly

From that I can conclude

despite good wood and good burning procedures, the stove was not exactly burning correctly.
because the stove was not burning correctly, creosote was able to form to the point it fueled the chimney fire

I have to assume the liner came apart in the old clay flue.

 

[RonB]

Definitely contact your insurance company. I had a minor chimney fire and they ended up installing a poured in place flue system (Golden Flue). This corrected a mortar brick problem in the attic/sofit that I was unaware I had. Bid for the stainless metal liner was similar to the poured in place. You are on the verge of finding out how good your insurance company is. Mine was great. Good luck to you--and needless to say don't use the stove again untill everything is repaired.

 

[BotetourtSteve]

I had a similar event occur about 10 years ago after having a stainless steel liner installed. A post-fire inspection revealed that I had been "jack-legged", in that the joints were not lined up and vermiculite insulation was barely installed. I eventually filed suit against the installer, won a judgement, and had the liner properly re-installed.

As many have said already, do not burn again until you have it checked. And if it burned as hot and for the duration you described, you should have definitely called 911 for chimney fire - many a home has burned down from chimney/flue fires, and if you had smoke intrusion, you were dangerously close. It is relatively easily for fire department to extinguish flue fire with chemicals (aka, a flue bomb as it is called) that cause no damage and minimal mess.

 

[gspro]

How dirty is "dirty" when you say the glass gets dirty every couple of days? Do you mean "dirty" as in "can't see through it, have to scrape it with a razor" dirty or just that little irritating white film? I'm burning oak and pine that were bucked up early last year, but not split until October of this year, and all I'm getting is the occasional white film.

It can be the white film, or dark. In either case, I just wipe it with a wet paper towel or newspaper in the morning, and it comes right off.