Chimney installation with snow on the roof?

[kevinmoelk]

Okay, since it seems that I will be getting the wood stove I am now concerned about the chimney. How do you install the chimney through the roof when I have snow and ice? I suppose I could get up there with a heat gun or small torch and melt everything away. I'm not too concerned about falling off. I'm also not terribly concerned about shingles as the house needs new shingles in the next year or two anyway. Any suggestions?

-Kevin

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

good traction boots. shovel off the snow where you want to work and rope yourself off. Work from the inside of the house using a plumb bob or a laser level. just shoot up and cut, shoot up and cut. If you get a few drops of water in the house no biggie.

 

[kevinmoelk]

Sounds easy enough I suppose. Not much snow on the roof, a couple inches, so maybe Ill just work from the inside and lay a tarp down in the attic to catch everything. Probably safer. Any idea where I can get the installation instructions for the SS2?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

http://www.selkirkinc.com/pdfs/install/platinum/A15110 Sheet GS.pdf

That is for the new stuff, it should be real similar to the older stuff. You might need more/different components then what you are going to get from that guy, so start lookin for a dealer.

 

[kevinmoelk]

Thanks MSG. I may have ruined the relationship with the local hearth dealer here. I was suppose to buy a chimney from him this week, ICC triple walled. Glad I did not in retrospect. I wonder how much help he'll be when I come in looking for Metalbestos chimney parts, lol. May have to find a dealer in another town.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

ICC is double wall, not tripple... FWIW.

 

[kevinmoelk]

ICC is double wall, not tripple... FWIW.

That's a riot! Makes me irritated that the salesman failed to explain that to me after I asked specifically for triple walled pipe. After speaking with Tom and you today, I'm thinking that either the person I dealt with is not so knowledgeable or that perhaps that is not the best hearth dealerto do business with. They have a great reputation here, over 90 years in the business. If I do go back, I'll make sure to deal with a different sales rep. Thanks for the education.

-Kevin

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Well wrench, i make it a habit to correct the cutomers that ask for tripple wall, and i tell you this, 90% of the folks out there think that double wall is tripple wall. The only differnce is one is air cooled and one is insulated. The salesperson probably new it wasnt tripple wall, just didnt want to strike up the arguemnt about tripple wall. For some reason customers want to aruge about tripple wall, so sometimes its easier just to nod your head. I DO NOT nod my head, i educate every time, severl times a day about the difference. On the other hand, you could have gotten a greenhorn, and maybe he didnt know the difference. Tripple wall has about a 1% market share these days ( i made that stat up )

 

[kd460]

Heres a little tip for moving around on a ashphalt shingled roof. Use a fair sized piece of foam rubber. Just the plain old foam rubber that is inside cushions and such. It's like your glued on to the roof. A piece large enough to sit on, and even a second piece if your moving around alot. You will be impressed at what kind of a pitch you can sit/work on without hangers.

A dark tarp over the work area to help melt the snow a day a two before you start will also help (if the sun is out). If you will be above freezing for a day or two, you could spray the build up snow with the garden hose, or for a one time use, you can toss some salt up there. KD

 

[hardwood715]

Heres a little tip for moving around on a ashphalt shingled roof. Use a fair sized piece of foam rubber. Just the plain old foam rubber that is inside cushions and such. It’s like your glued on to the roof. A piece large enough to sit on, and even a second piece if your moving around alot. You will be impressed at what kind of a pitch you can sit/work on without hangers.

No kidding?? I have to try that , I almost got killed once , thank god there was like 3 feet of snow on the ground, I was hacking ice damns out of the gutters, and on the tallest one I went from the roof instead of a ladder, swung back to smack the ice, and the momentum, kinda rolled me forward right off the roof, landed in the drift thank god, only injury was from the hammer landing on my noggin ouch that hurt!!

 

[Eric Johnson]

I installed my first chimney with about six inches of snow on the roof. I wasn't really sure what I was doing, but it's never leaked and worked fine. It even looks pretty decent.

 

[Jay H]

I don't know about others but I had my wood stove professionally installed and I watched them do it. For my chimney flue, they simply started from the ground up. Makes sense to make sure you have any interior ceilings cut straight. I too have a metalbestos chimney and they simply positioned the stove where it would go and then cut a pilot hole in the top and then around. (doesn't have to be perfectly above since the facia piece will cover a square sized area. Then after the chimney was run through the interior ceiling into my crawlspace, that's when the guys cut the hole in the ashpalt shingled roof.

You can also use what's known as Yaktrax/stabilizers which is made for hiking in thin ice.

Jay

 

[wg_bent]

I don't know about others but I had my wood stove professionally installed and I watched them do it. For my chimney flue, they simply started from the ground up. Makes sense to make sure you have any interior ceilings cut straight. I too have a metalbestos chimney and they simply positioned the stove where it would go and then cut a pilot hole in the top and then around. (doesn't have to be perfectly above since the facia piece will cover a square sized area. Then after the chimney was run through the interior ceiling into my crawlspace, that's when the guys cut the hole in the ashpalt shingled roof.

You can also use what's known as Yaktrax/stabilizers which is made for hiking in thin ice.

Jay

Yeah...Crampons would not be a good idea. My other advise would be to tie youself to something (a proper harness to tie into is also essential...and not that expensive). Just having a rope tied to you will help stabilize you.

Another option...rent a lift.

 

[treeman08]

wrenchmonster Posted: 04 December 2006 11:34 PM
I’m thinking that either the person I dealt with is not so knowledgeable or that perhaps that is not the best hearth dealerto do business with. They have a great reputation here, over 90 years in the business. If I do go back, I’ll make sure to deal with a different sales rep.

Wrench, it sounds like you are talking to Fosseens. If so, you should know that the new owners have only had it a few years. You will want to talk to Scott, he is the owner with experience in the business. The other Partner (Rick I think), put up most of the money, but appears from my dealings to not have a lot of knowledge, or customer service care.

 

[kevinmoelk]

Wrench, it sounds like you are talking to Fosseens. If so, you should know that the new owners have only had it a few years. You will want to talk to Scott, he is the owner with experience in the business. The other Partner (Rick I think), put up most of the money, but appears from my dealings to not have a lot of knowledge, or customer service care.

Well I wasn't going to name names, but yes it was indeed Fosseens. I dealt with Randy. Nice enough guy, nothing against him, but I just want accurate information. Perhaps it is like MSG suggested though, just nod your head rather than get into a 1/2 hour long conversation about the differences between triple and double wall. I did not know the business had turned over. I've only lived in the Yakima valley for 3 years, before that Portland, OR.

When I spoke to Tom he sounded shocked and immediately asked which hearth dealer gave me the advice... like he was going to call them up and straighten things out for me, give them the "what for" speech.

Thanks for all the tips about working on roofs and with snow guys. My home is only one story (basement under ground) so I'm not too high off the ground. Still, I'll probably tie off to the nearby furnace chimney with a rope just in case. Never heard of the foam trick... does that work for snow though? I'm just glad not to be dealing with a cedar shake roof. I might use the salt trick, or maybe buy one of those gutter ice things and just lay it where the chimney will be coming through.

I've got to find some wood now. Seasoned firewood from a business is 175 a cord!

-Kevin

 

[treeman08]

You might try George Strong in Wapato for fire wood. He has been in the wood business for several years. I got two cords from him for $250 in October.
Not all of it was the best wood, but pretty fair deal at 125 a cord (tamerack and red fir).

 

[begreen]

That's a great price. Wish they had tammarack on this side of the hills. Dry fir is going for $200/ cord. Madrona $250.

 

[DriftWood]

I don't know about others but I had my wood stove professionally installed and I watched them do it. For my chimney flue, they simply started from the ground up. Makes sense to make sure you have any interior ceilings cut straight. I too have a metalbestos chimney and they simply positioned the stove where it would go and then cut a pilot hole in the top and then around. (doesn't have to be perfectly above since the facia piece will cover a square sized area. Then after the chimney was run through the interior ceiling into my crawlspace, that's when the guys cut the hole in the ashpalt shingled roof.

You can also use what's known as Yaktrax/stabilizers which is made for hiking in thin ice.

Jay

Its not that easy the first time DTYS. cutting a 2/10 Or 2/12 ceiling or roof rafter to line up isn't easy. Go into your attic after driving a nail in to you ceiling over the spot you want your vent pipe. It may be easer to move the hearth position to line up with a easy ceiling and roof penetration than sistering the cut rafters.

 

[kevinmoelk]

Its not that easy the first time DTYS. cutting a 2/10 Or 2/12 ceiling or roof rafter to line up isn't easy. Go into your attic after driving a nail in to you ceiling over the spot you want your vent pipe. It may be easer to move the hearth position to line up with a easy ceiling and roof penetration than sistering the cut rafters.

Thanks for the advice. Oh yes, no problem with cutting holes, framing, etc. I worked as a framer for 2 summers in college and later in life owned my own construction company doing exterior renovation, windows, doors, siding, etc. Got all the tools and feel confident. I've just never had the need to cut into a roof with snow on the roof, so my concerns lie specifically with the snow and ice problems.

As far as the stove is concerned, it will live where I tell it to live! If framing modifications need to happen, then they will happen. Of course, this is not saying that if I could avoid reframing by moving over an inch I wouldn't do so.

My plan is to make a cardboard template of the top of the stove, and then use a plumb bob to align everything, just go up and up.

-Kevin

 

[kd460]

The foam trick only works on bare ashphalt shingles, personally, never tired it on ice. Ice and gravity are a tough combination! KD

 

[hearthtools]

Well wrench, i make it a habit to correct the cutomers that ask for tripple wall, and i tell you this, 90% of the folks out there think that double wall is tripple wall. The only differnce is one is air cooled and one is insulated. The salesperson probably new it wasnt tripple wall, just didnt want to strike up the arguemnt about tripple wall. For some reason customers want to aruge about tripple wall, so sometimes its easier just to nod your head. I DO NOT nod my head, i educate every time, severl times a day about the difference. On the other hand, you could have gotten a greenhorn, and maybe he didnt know the difference. Tripple wall has about a 1% market share these days ( i made that stat up )

If you think about it ICC and Metobestos is triple wall pipe.

One outside layer of shell.
One Layer of High heat Insulation.
One iner Layer of Stainless Steel Chimney.

Saying Tripple wall is the same as saying Class A chimney
Kind of like some people saying they have to Hover The carpet.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

but the industry calles it double wall. tripple wall has three layers of air, or one layer of air and insulation. I guess its all in terminology, but when a customer says tripple wall there expecting air cooled 8" id 16" od type of stuff. there not looking for the insulated pipe. Or maybe its a local thing? Class A and triple wall are the same yes, but double wall and tripple wall are very different.

 

[hearthtools]

People that come in my store looking for "tripple Wall" do not know the differnce from air cooled or insulated or even Chimney liner for that fact.
they are just looking for the chimney that goes through the roof.
Triple wall has been such a OVERLY use slang word for Class A that most people in my area call in triple wall.
and the double wall is what is used IN THE HOME from the stove to the Support box.

If some one comes in and asked for double wall Im going to asked them.
"you want the pipe that goes from the stove to the support box?"
"or do you need the CLASS A chimney that passes through your Attic and out the roof?"

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Rod i agree, thats its way overused.
I like that approach, it must be a local thing, people will argue to the death about our chimney not having air spaces. I get asked for tripple wall at least once a day, never ever am i asked for class A. Any way, enough about that LMAO.

 

[hearthtools]

Rod i agree, thats its way overused.
I like that approach, it must be a local thing, people will argue to the death about our chimney not having air spaces. I get asked for tripple wall at least once a day, never ever am i asked for class A. Any way, enough about that LMAO.

Do you show them or tell them that in your cold Climate an Insulated chimney Pipe will Draft much better and have less cold spots that will help keep down Creosoot deposits on the pipe?