Chimney Reline

[zeebox]

"Hello World"

First, thanks to all the members of this forum for making it so informative.

I recently purchased a XXV with the ignorant assumption that I was done spending money. However, after discovering my ignorance via this site, its obvious that I MAY require a reline.

I've collected the following information from around the site - I hope it might also be helpful for others to see this in one place

How to determine if a Reline is necessary
[darkstar]

- The cross sectional area of the flue of a chimney venting solid fuels with no walls exposed to the outside below the roof line is more than three times the cross-sectional area of appliance flue collar.
- The cross-sectional area of the flue of a chimney venting solid fuels with one or more walls exposed to the outside below the roof line is more than two times the cross sectional area of appliance flue collar"

Benefits of Reline
[Delta-T]

-eliminate the risk that any exhaust will find its way through fissures in the clay tiles and cause deterioration of the masonry.
-reduce the likelihood of the “cold stack effect” creating too much resistance and setting off the pressure/vacuum sensor.
-reduce the likelihood that a block off plate and insulation around the pipe is poorly done allowing exhaust to come back into the house.
-makes for easier/better ability to send a pipe brush up the chimney without disturbing fore mentioned block off plate and/or insulation.

Partial reline?
[DAKSY]

You can run your pellet vent a foot or so into the Class A & seal
the area between the ID of the Class A & the OD of the pellet vent,
but the fly ash that comes out of the PV will build up inside the Class A.
In order to clean it, you’ll probably have to take stuff apart & the mess
will be hard to contain…
Your best bet is to run the 3” PV into the Class A, increase to 4” & run a
Stainless Steel liner all the way to the cap.

Reline Costs

-$589 for a 35’ 4” liner complete
-$250 liner install
-$70 90 degree
-$37 3” to 4” increaser

Risks of not lining
[My dealer - Heartline Stoves NH]

The recommended practice and most municipal safety code requirements call for relining with 3 or 4 inch diameter stainless steel. If you have an interior chimney in good, clean condition and with a restrictor at the top, you may be ok. Pellet appliances, by design, allow very little heat into the chimney thus the chance for condensation.

If you use an unlined chimney and have an event that requires insurance company funded home cleaning, expect legal action against someone.

My setup
- New XXV
- 6 in flue hole into an interior masonry chimney approx 25 ft high. This was built with the house - most likely for a wood stove setup. Never used. The house is 3 yrs old.
- Flue is rectangular orange tile - approx 12in X 8in (guessing - see pic) condition looks mint
- I currently only have the 3 to 6 in converter, 2 elbows, and 2 2ft sections to connect to existing flue

It seems a reline certainly will not hurt, and I could see a lot of great benefits from it.

My questions
1. Is there any code in NH requiring a reline?
2. Do insurance companies normally require a reline to hold coverage?
3. What is the recommended reline kit?
4. How difficult is self installing a reline kit?
5. Is it worth the money in my situation?

 

[Delta-T]

1. as of right now, NH does not "require" a reline into an existing chimney so long as it has either the clay liner (intact) or a S.S flex liner.(you appear to have intact clay liner)
2. I'm not sure, most just want it installed to "manufacturer specification".
3.a section of S.S liner , long enough to connect to the fore mentioned clay or s.s. plus a foot or so to insert into said liner.( you must use double wall PL pipe for anything that is "exposed" (touchable).
you could have a block off plate made, or seal the pipe with rockwool/fibrglass insulation.
4. not very difficult.
5 hmmmm, i'd think so, but its your prerogative really.

hope that helps

 

[zeebox]

Thanks Delta-T!

3. What does S.S stand for? Is this a brand or a pipe class.
4. Are there any preferred online stores or places to order the kits?
6. If I install it without the liner - will there be clear signs if I NEED one once its running? IE - what will bad draft do to the stove?

 

[Delta-T]

S.S. = Stainless steel
can't help you on the online stuff, never purchased any that way.
there might be some clear signs, but most likely not, the cold stack effect wont show up until.....its cold. You are much more likely to have excessive draft if you dont have the cold stack effect, so i guess its sort of "pick a poison". I have yet to see any problems with the partial reline, but you could be lucky #1!

 

[zeebox]

Any advice on where to pick up the SS Kits - big box stores or local supplier?

I have one quote from a local company for 4'' @ 30' Duravent pellet pro B vent (rigid) total install is $750.00 which includes 30' of liner, tee, bottom plate, top plate, storm collar and cap. This seems reasonable.

 

[Delta-T]

FW Webb, Big Box Store, Stove Shop- any should be able to get this for you.

I'm confused though, pellet pipe is not B-vent, totally different. Pellet pipe is PL or L (in rigid form), Duravent does make rigid pellet pipe, called PelletVent Pro (rigid). What you need is a S.S. flex liner, Duravent makes the DUraFlex in 4" for your application, and of course whatever ridig pieces you need to make it into the firebox of the fireplace and up to the damper.

that price does seem reasonable.

 

[jtakeman]

http://www.northlineexpress.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=5SE-3-4VP-35IK

 

[LIpelletpig]

Make sure you get the right size liner...Usually Harman requires 4" for long runs up chimneys.. Check the manual before ordering or going to the store. Save you some time.

 

[zeebox]

http://www.northlineexpress.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=5SE-3-4VP-35IK

Perfect! Thank you - best price I've seen and I have heard people saying Selkirk is good.

 

[zeebox]

Make sure you get the right size liner...Usually Harman requires 4" for long runs up chimneys.. Check the manual before ordering or going to the store. Save you some time.

Thanks - its seems everywhere I look 4" is recommended for the rise I have.

 

[zeebox]

Next dumb question is what type of Chimney pass through should I use to connect to the new SS kit? Right now I have a 6in plated flue hole and I already bought all the 6 in pipe to connect to it from the pellet stove, so I'd like to use it. Would I just need a reverse 6 in to 3 in reducer inside the chimney to connect to the line T?

 

[Delta-T]

are you planning to use the "top vent " kit thats available for the XXV? you may want to check into that. Looks like you should be able to connect your regular old pellet pipe directly to that pipe with a 6-3 reducer and call it a day. if you go with the top vent kit you can run the black pipe right to the connector you have and call that a day as well.

 

[zeebox]

are you planning to use the "top vent " kit thats available for the XXV? you may want to check into that. Looks like you should be able to connect your regular old pellet pipe directly to that pipe with a 6-3 reducer and call it a day. if you go with the top vent kit you can run the black pipe right to the connector you have and call that a day as well.

Ok thanks. I saw the top vent kit, and was advised not to go with it since cleaning is a PITA.

Also,

I just had my pellets delivered and was able to pick the brain of the installer from Heart Line. He suggested I first confirm with the insurance company that venting into my existing chimney without a liner will be covered, then to simply put a 12x12 outdoor brick tile over the top of my flue and slide it to expose a 1"X8” gap. He said this will help keep the chimney warmer (reduce creosote buildup) and keep the rain out.

Question -

Is this a viable alternative to relining?

 

[zeebox]

Sorry for the 20 questions!

 

[Delta-T]

you should not be in any danger of making creosote, unless you plan to abuse the unit. Do check with insurance company about the reline business, but get a descent chimney cap.a 12x12 patio stone just doesn't seem like a good idea to be resting atop the chimney.I'd think it would make an excellent pad for snow and ice to collect on and then drain right into the flue.
Cleaning the top vent kit is not a PITA as far as i'm concerned. theres an access hatch in the back to make for "relatively" easy cleaning.

 

[imacman]

.....get a descent chimney cap. A 12x12 patio stone just doesn't seem like a good idea to be resting atop the chimney.I'd think it would make an excellent pad for snow and ice to collect on and then drain right into the flue......

I agree with Delta.....get a proper cap installed. It will keep birds, bats, and rain out.

 

[Delta-T]

.....get a descent chimney cap. A 12x12 patio stone just doesn't seem like a good idea to be resting atop the chimney.I'd think it would make an excellent pad for snow and ice to collect on and then drain right into the flue......

I agree with Delta.....get a proper cap installed. It will keep birds, bats, and rain out.

an article from the Ash Can makes me think a decent chimney cap can also keep out creepy ex-girlfirends who try to shimmy down the flue. you can almost never be too safe.

 

[imacman]

.....a decent chimney cap can also keep out creepy ex-girlfirends who try to shimmy down the flue. you can almost never be too safe.

:lol: :lol:

 

[zeebox]

Dam these things are a b1tch to move around. With the help of 2 other guys we got it in place.

 

[Delta-T]

nice job, nice job. I like to look at it this way......the stove is so heavy, you probably wont have to worry about anyone stealing it.