jtp10181
Minister of Fire
ProPain said:
I think they are idiots then, and could possibly be violating state or local building codes.
chimney relining quote
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I think they are idiots then, and could possibly be violating state or local building codes.
I installed a liner in my old mans chiminy, he also had a 5" damper that I had to get through. I "ovalized" the last three feet of the liner myself before sending it down the shoot. I also had to take a sawzall to a small nub in the damper (only in one spot) for clearance. Once the liner was in place, I made the last (or first) six inches round again to connect it to the tee/stove. It took some muscle and rolling, but it worked great.
I'm going to call the sweep and tell him I'll do it myself. I guess the question now is whether I should use the 6" rigid oval DuraLiner or the Forever Flex with the section that goes through the flue ovalized. For those of you who have used the DuraLiner, how much weight is involved in 22' of liner? It seems to me working with the Forever Flex from the cherry picker might be easier than the DuraLiner. Thoughts? Thanks!
jtp10181
Minister of Fire
The duraliner comes in 4ft sections and you pop rivet it together as you drop it in. It is supported by the top plate and clamp as you drop it down. You slide it tighten the clamp then pop the next one on, then you slide it down again and continue. Once you get to the end it is pretty heavy, definitely easier with two people. The three jobs we have done I went to the site with the two man crew and helped out to make sure it got done right. You put a flex piece on first to get through the damper at the bottom, and then once its through there is a oval to round piece that goes on. Its a lot of rivets but it comes out awesome in the end.
I just spoke with the sweep and told him I'll do it myself. He was really nice and offered to give me input I might need along the way.
My biggest concern with the DuraLiner is accidentally dropping it down the flue during installation and not being able to retrieve it. Do I understand correctly that it's best to have two people at the top of the chimney during installation, or one up top and one at the bottom? How easy is it to rivet the sections together? And one final question: should I use the heavy duty or regular flex pipe for the section that runs through the damper?
My biggest concern with the DuraLiner is accidentally dropping it down the flue during installation and not being able to retrieve it. Do I understand correctly that it's best to have two people at the top of the chimney during installation, or one up top and one at the bottom? How easy is it to rivet the sections together? And one final question: should I use the heavy duty or regular flex pipe for the section that runs through the damper?
jtp10181
Minister of Fire
We used two people up top, one to hold the liner while the other messes with the clamp. Once you lower it and clamp it one person can rivet it. The rivets go in pretty easily. Don't rivet the cap on like we did on one..... the first sweep to come out will be cussing. We used the regular flex due to cost. I asked the guys if they wanted to try the heavy duty and they said the regular stuff seemed fine. The only thing we had problems with was the oval to round flex adaptor ripped on us twice. If you call Simpson when it rips they will send you a new one right away but it puts the project on hold. Luckily both times they ripped we had an extra one in the shop.
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
I have the Duraliner double wall rigid with 5' of flex at the bottom. 5-4' rigid sections, 1-2' rigi section at top, and 5' of flex at the bottom.
Did by myself, if ya can get another to help it will go much easier. What I did, was take a long piece of 14/2 romex cable. first pop rivet the flex to the first pc of rigid, lower down some, wrapped the romex around 2x and tied off to my step ladder. You can also clamp the clamp each time at top, but that is alot of clamping & unclamping. I did a total of 27' and it does get to be about 75-80 lbs. total I think, What makes it hards & heavy is no way to get a good hands around grip, and after working with it, the last pc with the rest of the weight does feel kinda heavy especially all pulling straight down. But not a total PITA, just a lil. Cleans very easily, and drafts very, very much LOL, especially at 27'. I would not do it any other way had I had another chance. Rigid rocks. And really, when you figure the cost of full flex, plus additional for insulation kit, its not all that much more in cost.
Did by myself, if ya can get another to help it will go much easier. What I did, was take a long piece of 14/2 romex cable. first pop rivet the flex to the first pc of rigid, lower down some, wrapped the romex around 2x and tied off to my step ladder. You can also clamp the clamp each time at top, but that is alot of clamping & unclamping. I did a total of 27' and it does get to be about 75-80 lbs. total I think, What makes it hards & heavy is no way to get a good hands around grip, and after working with it, the last pc with the rest of the weight does feel kinda heavy especially all pulling straight down. But not a total PITA, just a lil. Cleans very easily, and drafts very, very much LOL, especially at 27'. I would not do it any other way had I had another chance. Rigid rocks. And really, when you figure the cost of full flex, plus additional for insulation kit, its not all that much more in cost.
I'm thinking I'll hold off on the reline for now. This whole thing is really a stresser. I can't get a majority of the folks who advertise relining in the yellow pages to return my messages, and the folks I have spoken with are either WAY too expensive or the work they are proposing is suspect (see earlier part of thread). For various reasons, I just don't think I'm ready to do the install myself at this point. I currently have a Hearthstone Homestead hooked up in the back part of my house that does a really nice job heating the rear heating zone. I had planned to move the Homestead to the front of the house and replace it with the Tribute sitting in my garage waiting to be hooked up. Now I'm thinking I'm just going to stick the Tribute in my fireplace and vent it through the damper to the bottom of the clay liner. I imagine this setup will have to be more efficient than the open fireplace, and I can't stand to leave the Tribute just sitting in the garage with a blanket over it any longer.
This brings up my question: Can I use the DuraLiner flex pipe (with flat stove connector that will allow me to transition from the round flue opening on my stove to the oval flex pipe) as a direct connect? I would, obviously, construct an insulated block-off plate for the damper area. My thinking here is that I can use the flex pipe as part of a full relining, if I decide to go that route in the future. Getting a FlexLine kit, on the other hand, would be a waste of money, if I eventually decide to go with a full relining.
Thanks so much for all of the great feedback! I'm really not an indicisive person -- except, apparently, when it comes to wood stove setups.
This brings up my question: Can I use the DuraLiner flex pipe (with flat stove connector that will allow me to transition from the round flue opening on my stove to the oval flex pipe) as a direct connect? I would, obviously, construct an insulated block-off plate for the damper area. My thinking here is that I can use the flex pipe as part of a full relining, if I decide to go that route in the future. Getting a FlexLine kit, on the other hand, would be a waste of money, if I eventually decide to go with a full relining.
Thanks so much for all of the great feedback! I'm really not an indicisive person -- except, apparently, when it comes to wood stove setups.
I've changed my mind again... A friend of mine climbed up my chimney today and took the inside measurements at the top of the flue. Interestingly, the top measurements seem to be smaller than the measurements at the bottom of the flue. The inside at the top measures 6.5" x 10 13/16". Since the 6.5" runs side-to-side, I don't see how the 7 3/4" wide DuraLiner will work. I'm going to go ahead and order the 25' ForeverFlex kit and drop that thing down the chimney. (Actually, my cousin, who fears heights much less than I, said he will push the liner down the flue and install the top plate, cap, etc.) Clearly, the insulation wrap will not fit, so I'm going to install the liner without insulation and see how things go. I may, at a later date, go with the Thermix, or I may even stuff some kaowool down into the voids. We'll see what kind of buildup I get. We're going to ovalize the the last couple/few feet of the liner to get it through the damper, then round it again.
One question: From where should I order kaowool? I want to use this to insulate the blockoff plate, as well as for the mantel shield I'm going to have fabricated.
I have included a photo of the chimney. I'm still very open to input and thank everyone for their great advice!
One question: From where should I order kaowool? I want to use this to insulate the blockoff plate, as well as for the mantel shield I'm going to have fabricated.
I have included a photo of the chimney. I'm still very open to input and thank everyone for their great advice!
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That chimney is gonna be fine without insulation. Just burn that stove right and don't worry about it. As easy a place as any to get ceramic fiber blanket is to search for it on eBay or buy it online from Grainger. You have to be a business to buy from them but just make one up. They don't care, you just pay with a credit card and they deliver in a flash.
This side of the Blue Ridge the weather is pretty much the same at your place or mine and my stoves draw fine and don't crap up the chimneys with flex liners and no insulation on exterior brick chimneys.
I think BeGreen was scared by an exterior chimney when he was little. :lol:
PS: Nice house.
This side of the Blue Ridge the weather is pretty much the same at your place or mine and my stoves draw fine and don't crap up the chimneys with flex liners and no insulation on exterior brick chimneys.
I think BeGreen was scared by an exterior chimney when he was little. :lol:
PS: Nice house.
Hello to all, I'm new here. I've been doing a lot of research and studying the forums. You have the same size Flue liner as I do and I just wanted to throw another option your way. I have on order 30' of ForeverFlex Ovalized with insulating wrap. The ovalized 6" has a finished dimension of 4" x 7.5" and with an insulated wrap and wire sleeve should fit without too much difficulty down your measured flue. The only thing to note is that the clay liners were properly installed and not to far out of alignment and don't have too much mortar protruding inside. The nice thing to ordering the ForeverFlex is that the entire kit is now ovalized, that being the tee, plate and cap so it all fits nicely. I should have by next Wednesday. Hope this might help.
jtp10181
Minister of Fire
FYI the OVAL DuraLiner is like 4-3/4" on the skinny side. I think 8 something on the wide side. So it would fit. We have used it on 3 flues with the exact same dimensions as yours.
If I used the DuraLiner, I could, no doubt, get it down the chimney. It's when the liner reached the damper I would have a problem, as the orientation of the liner at that point would be opposite the damper opening. Another problem would be the actual installation, as getting two people to the top of the chimney would not be easy. DuraLiner appears to be an excellent option, just not for my chimney.
I went ahead and ordered a ForeverFlex kit, so it's all moot at this point. For my chimney, I think this will work best. Thanks to everyone for all of your great advice! I'm sure I'll have a question or two between now and the time we install.
I went ahead and ordered a ForeverFlex kit, so it's all moot at this point. For my chimney, I think this will work best. Thanks to everyone for all of your great advice! I'm sure I'll have a question or two between now and the time we install.
It sounds like using concrete in the top portion of a chimney on a liner installation is fine -- assuming "concrete" and "mortar" are defined the same. Here's what the installation instructions for the ForeverFlex liner, which arrived yesterday, say...
"The standard chimney top termination for a ForeverFlex lining system is to use the ForeverFlex top plate and cap. However, some installations may require or you may desire an alternative top termination. Two other chimney top terminations are approved as follows.
1. Liner, mortar secured, to crown with any listed rain cap: Insulate liner to within four inches of chimney top. Fill the remaining four inches with mortar or a crown mix and form a slope from the liner to the outside edge of the chimney. Attach listed cap to the liner."
While it may not be standard practice, it appears using concrete is an option. Nonetheless, I'm certainly not planning on going this route! I'm just posting FYI.
"The standard chimney top termination for a ForeverFlex lining system is to use the ForeverFlex top plate and cap. However, some installations may require or you may desire an alternative top termination. Two other chimney top terminations are approved as follows.
1. Liner, mortar secured, to crown with any listed rain cap: Insulate liner to within four inches of chimney top. Fill the remaining four inches with mortar or a crown mix and form a slope from the liner to the outside edge of the chimney. Attach listed cap to the liner."
While it may not be standard practice, it appears using concrete is an option. Nonetheless, I'm certainly not planning on going this route! I'm just posting FYI.
Byron,
I would be interested to hear (read) your updates on your install. I've just received my Foreverflex and need to get it wrapped and ready to install. Please update if you come across any good pointers you may notice during your install and good luck with it.
I would be interested to hear (read) your updates on your install. I've just received my Foreverflex and need to get it wrapped and ready to install. Please update if you come across any good pointers you may notice during your install and good luck with it.
Randy,
I'm probably a week or two away from installation. My cousin (who is going to do the install) needs to build some safety stuff before we set the ladder from which he will work in place. Also, it appears my friend who measured my chimney may have measured the flue for my gas furnace and not the fireplace flue. My flue may be large enough to support an insulated liner. If it works out that space will allow for an insulated liner, I will need to order the insulation kit, leaving the project on hold until it arrives. That said, I'll post installation updates. It would be great if you could do the same.
I'm probably a week or two away from installation. My cousin (who is going to do the install) needs to build some safety stuff before we set the ladder from which he will work in place. Also, it appears my friend who measured my chimney may have measured the flue for my gas furnace and not the fireplace flue. My flue may be large enough to support an insulated liner. If it works out that space will allow for an insulated liner, I will need to order the insulation kit, leaving the project on hold until it arrives. That said, I'll post installation updates. It would be great if you could do the same.
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