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Chipping cement from block or ?

Post in 'DIY and General non-hearth advice' started by Holzstapel, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. Holzstapel

    Holzstapel Member

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    Since this might end up being a DIY project. I would like some advice on how to best remove the existing beach pebble stones and the base layer of cement from our fireplace.

    Our current idea is to remove the beach pebbles to a height of 7' and have cultured stone installed all around the fireplace.

    Is there another way to have cultured stone installed over what we have?

    If we were to chip off what we want to remove, would you recommend putting up a layer of durorock and then cultured stone?

    Is it crazy to even consider trying to remove that?

    Below is a photo of what we are working with.

    chimney.jpg

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  2. ironpony

    ironpony Minister of Fire

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    leave as is, attach lathe, scratch coat then stone
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  3. Holzstapel

    Holzstapel Member

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    Well that sounds simple enough. :) Time to start some research!

    Would you also go this route if tile was used instead of stone? This is the first question my wife is going to ask when I tell her about the lathe/scratch coat method. I'm thinking that getting the surface level enough for tile would be tricky.

    This beach pebble finish is also on the exterior foundation of the house. I dream of covering it up with stone someday.
  4. ironpony

    ironpony Minister of Fire

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    yes, but as you said, it will take some skill to make it flat
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  5. fishingpol

    fishingpol Minister of Fire

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    If solid brick or concrete behind the pebble, a demolition hammer with a wide chisel could make it happen. Dusty work I would imagine.
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  6. ScotO

    ScotO Guest

    I second Iron Pony's suggestion.....scrub the pebbled surface down with clean water, let it dry. Install lath over the stone, give it a good scratchcoat of mortar (you can put some bonding agent in the mortar for an extra bite), rake or 'scarify' the surface of the mortar, let it dry. Then, install your stone right on top of the scratchcoat.....it'll be just fine that way.
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  7. Holzstapel

    Holzstapel Member

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    I was going to ask about bonding agents. Seems like a good idea to use one in this case.
  8. ScotO

    ScotO Guest

    for the scratchcoat, that's what I'd do. Several vinyl based bonding additives out there, they are a little pricey but worth the guarantee if you are questioning your substrate. Is the pebble solid and in good condition?
  9. Holzstapel

    Holzstapel Member

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    The majority of the pebbles are embedded into the surface and not going anywhere. There are always some that fall off when dusting and if you rub your hand over it, some will come off too. The ones that fall off have barely been hanging on since it was built.
  10. Mr A

    Mr A Minister of Fire

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    I had a patio with that type of pebble. It was pebbles mixed in a resin, and spread over cement board, wonderboard. I wouldn't rely on your existing pebble to support any new material. Is that an island fireplace? Looks like yo can walk around it, yes?
  11. Holzstapel

    Holzstapel Member

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    Yes, you can walk around the entire fireplace. The interior of the structure is mason block - all the way up.

    After talking to a couple of masons they all suggested that the lath is not needed. We were given some nice quotes for the stone work and will probably have a pro do it. Heading back to a stone supply house tonight and another later this week.
  12. Mr A

    Mr A Minister of Fire

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    Brick structure, good. Still, you don't want to attach to the pebble veneer, it's the weak link.
  13. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    You can also skip the scratch coat, and do a wet skim coat in small areas as your installing the stone veneer.
    I found it worked much better for me.
    The scratch coat must be wet every time you let it dry and go to restart the project, and I found it both a PITA and did not adhere as good as a wet coat with the stone set in.
    Skim the mesh, in a 2 or 3' square area, butter the back of the veneer, set the veneer working it into the we coat, done.
    Worked great for me, and that is how I plan on doing the outside of the house when I ever get to it.
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  14. Holzstapel

    Holzstapel Member

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    The mason we talked to last night, who is the owner of a large local stone supplier, walked us both thru how to do it ourselves from start to finish. I've known that we could, but I believe my wife needed a little more confidence and the mason provided that. He insisted that no lath is needed, and that what we have there now is a suitable base for the initial coats and the stone. He talked about mixing adhesives into the mix that will hold everything up and showed us how to cut into the existing structure with a grinder to install a mantle. After picking out the real stone veener that we liked we were shocked that it wasn't the most expensive stone on display, but it was still pricey. Soooooo, we are going to install this ourselves. We have a plan to demo what we need to demo in order to get the stove installed this year (tax rebate) and possibly get the Jotul installed before their rebate (another $300) expires on 9/15.

    Its strange that everyone has a different way to install a stone veneer. There are people here at work, in the property management department who said that lath is not needed. I contacted one of the contractors that we use, who is currently installing a stone veneer on a residence, and he too said that no lath is needed.
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  15. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    If that pebble stone has any kind of clear coat or sealant over it....mesh will be needed.
    I have rarely seen a pebble coat that has not had some kind of sealant or clear coat applied over it, but that does not mean yours does have it.
    I would look real close at that if I were you.
    If the pebble coat fails, guess what comes off with it?
    For the cost of that mesh, I myself would use it.
    Seems you got the advise you were looking for, hope it all works out as you plan.
    Another simple thing to do is call the veneer manufacturer and ask them direct.
    Take your time, and good luck.
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  16. Holzstapel

    Holzstapel Member

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    Well dont make it seem like i was looking for someone to say that the lath was not needed. Talking to a pro makes a big difference with the reliability of the advice. I took a real close look at the pebbles and there is not a clear coat on them. I hope too that what we plan to do works out with many obstacles.
  17. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    If your comfortable with it, then that is all that matters.
    Keep us posted and maybe take some during shots to help other that have a similar situation.
    As long as you have a rough enough, solid surface to mortar to, you should be fine.
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  18. ironpony

    ironpony Minister of Fire

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    I have not seen it personally and it sounds like you have done due diligence having a mason contractor look at it and give you the go ahead without lath. Good luck with the project, take your time and be patient, it may take a few tries to get your mortar mix the right consistency to stick.
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  19. ScotO

    ScotO Guest

    I personally always use lath.....hence the name overkill......
    But, that's just my preference. I've installed hundreds of square feet of real stone veneer, and it's always worked great....
    Either way, show us some pics of your project.....I'm looking forward to seeing it..
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  20. ironpony

    ironpony Minister of Fire

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    P1010062.JPG P1010116.JPG P1010153.JPG We, the wife and I did all the stone on the fireplace, outdoor kitchen, and house, somewhere around 3000 Sq. Ft.
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  21. Holzstapel

    Holzstapel Member

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    outstanding job!
  22. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Here is the stone I put on in my addition. Most against the garage wall inside the addition that was painted superior walls.
    With the paint on the walls, I had to do the mesh. I tried scratch coating and re-wetting the dry scratch coating was a PITA.
    So I only left about 6" or 8" of scratch around the already installed stone after knocking off for the day each time.
    Then just wet the scratch coat when restarting the project and then wet skim coating and buttering the backs of the stones to set in place. Worked out very well for me.
    Here is my new office. MOst over the concrete garage wall with mesh, the smaller part over pressboard with tar paper & mesh.

    Attached Files:

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  23. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    The new bedroom. Again over the garage wall with mesh and then I boxed out the back of the existing chimney with metal studs, then Durock, then mesh(yes I used mesh over the Durock anyway), then the stone in same manner as the rest.

    Attached Files:

  24. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Sorry for all the pictures, but here is the stone trimmed out with stained & clear coated wood trim, a shot of the Englander where she will sit after I put blue stone or tile on the floor, and Laminate stone look Dupont flooring in place the rest of the addition.

    Attached Files:

  25. ScotO

    ScotO Guest

    Looking fantastic, Hogz! You already know how I love that wood and stone combination....here's our 95% finished living room with the stone fireplace I did....wood t&g cathedral ceilings and antique reclaimed flooring......

    100MEDIA36IMAG2423.jpg

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