Clean slate. Need advice.

[wolfram]

Been searching & reading for a year and learning about central heating with wood. Thank you all very much.

We just moved to a new(er) house that is heated using electric baseboards. Single story with unfinished basement; 2,100 sq. ft. each. Walkout basement is uninsulated. We have significant experience with heating using woodstoves and coalstoves and want to consider central wood heat. The house sits on 100 wooded acres, and it is likely that we will build an outbuilding (e.g. 2,000 sq. ft.) that will require heat. Furthermore, the full basement will become a workshop, properly insulated and heated.

Total household cost for electricity averaged $250/month for JAN-APR. This includes DHW. Thermostats kept at 72 degrees during the day, 65 while sleeping. In the summer months, electric cost is approximately $75/month; no A/C. Electricity is currently about a $0.10/kwh. If it were just the house, I might grind my teeth and continue to send checks to the utility company for a while. However, given plans for expanding the living space, we will need to scale up the heating system.

Questions regarding boiler installation:

1. Since there is currently no central heat system in place (and no outbuilding yet), should I run hydronic baseboards or in-floor tubing for the living areas? How about the basement, which has a concrete floor? How about conversion to hot air? Initial system cost is an important variable. No budget has been developed yet.

2. Given the site plan, which locates the potential outbuilding 150 feet from the house, should I set the boiler and storage in the basement or in a shed near the proposed outbuilding? Is this just a matter of preference?

3. Do folks run coolant in the lines for protection during winter vacations? Or do they rely on recirculating pumps to keep water from freezing? I would hate to have to install electric baseboard as backup in the basement and outbuilding...

Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Hi Wolfram. Welcome to the Boiler Room

You get much more bang for the buck with infloor radiant hydronic heat vs. baseboards, so I'd definitely go that route if at all possible. You can heat with much lower temps with radiant, which means you get more usable heat out of your boiler.

The best place for storage would be in the basement, since any standby losses would be going into living space. You can put your storage anywhere you like, but the insulation/heat loss issue is a big one. If you're heating the outbuilding containing the storage, then it amounts to the same thing.

I've used both plain water and heating system antifreeze, and I think it's a lot easier to design a plain water system with a reliable backup than messing around with all that very expensive glycol. You can run heat tape in the pipe runs, circulate hot water from another boiler or water heater, pump continuously, etc.

Hot air conversions are easily accomplished with a wood-fired boiler by using a relatively inexpensive hot air heat exchanger.

Wood-fired hydronic boilers and heating systems aren't cheap, but they have pretty quick paybacks, especially if you have 100 acres of woodland to draw from. If you do the work yourself, I'd say the project you're considering would run something in the neighborhood of $15K. Maybe more, depending on how fancy you want to get and your tolerance for shopping for deals on Ebay.

I'm sure other members will want to add to my brief comments. Feel free to fire away with questions. I'm sure you'll have a boatload as you get into a project like this.

 

[in hot water]

Do you need or want AC? If so an airhandler with a hot water coil would provide both.

Radiant floors or panel radiators are my first two choices, after radiant. Or a mix. Some like radiant in the living spaces and baths, fin tube or panel rads in the rest.

Those mini splits are another way to add AC to a hydronic system. So many options.

hr

 

[SolarAndWood]

Radiant floors or panel radiators are my first two choices, after radiant.

Are you referring to old school radiators?

 

[in hot water]

sort of.
Panel rads are generally a stamped or welded steel. They work on convection but also the warm flat surface is much like radiant. They run nicely on 140-160F or lower supply. Easily zoned, plenty of sizes and colors. Many installers feed them with 3/8 or 1/2" pex tube.

Some double as towel warmers in bathrooms. Quick response makes them nice for bedrooms with night setback programs.

Google panel radiators to see many brands and styles.

hr

 

[wolfram]

Thank you for the information.

Eric: How would you tackle the basement? Pour a new floor with tubing on top of the existing concrete floor? Could the storage system be modeled and configured to passively heat the basement without any further tubing/fixtures? Coldest it gets down there is 45 degrees. 60 degrees makes a comfortable shop environment for me. If the walls were insulated, seems likely that a "lossy" storage system might just do the trick. Be nice to predict in advance. And good news on the water freeze question; seems quite managable. Thanks!

In Hot Water: No A/C(!), as he stands firm against the almighty Power. We struggle to get to 80 degrees here, now and then. I will do some research on panel radiators. Sounds like a lot of options that are consistent with Eric's recommendations. How would you handle the basement shop space?

~$15K seems fine with me since it appears to scale in my favor as I add new conditioned space.

Is running the tubing within the joists (and around obstacles) a large hassle? Thanks!

 

[jebatty]

Keep in mind that a warm basement (65-70F heated with "losses" from a storage tank) will automatically assist in making the main level quite comfortable. Slightly different situation with our house (one level, full basement), as we keep the basement about 55F with electric (interruptible rate of about $.04 kwh) and easily heat 1500 sq ft, open floor plan, with just a wood stove in the living room. Also electric baseboard in house for backup when we're gone. No A/C. Have done this for 19 years. Last year's electric bill for heat was about $200.

Currently am dreaming about building a new shop close to the house, and installing radiant panels in the house, both shop and house heated with a gasser. A stimulus check would put me to work for a long time doing this and solve a very local economic downturn.

Also fully experienced with a gasser boiler, used to heat my shop. If new construction, I definitely would go with a radiant hot water system, gasser boiler, storage tank system. You have options given your situation to go either way.