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CO Monitors, PLEASE READ!

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by RnG17, Mar 6, 2011.

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  1. RnG17

    RnG17 New Member

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    Just thought I'd share this since we are all in danger of it. I work for a HVAC company and one of our big beliefs is every home should have a CO monitor. NSI 3000 Low Level Monitors are the best out there IMO. Google it and read up on them, I try and install them in every home I go into because of one simple reason, they saved my wife's life this winter!

    They read as low as 5ppm, and alarm at 15ppm. Most store bought "detectors" alarm at 400ppm, some read as low as 70ppm, and they have to read that high of a level for hours! Look on the back of your store bought detectors if you have them and see how high it has to be before it alarms.

    Plus the NSI have a screen that shows you how the level of CO is.

    Trust me I don't work for them or get any spiff for doing this. Actually I lie if I save someones life because of a simple "new thread" that is the best spiff I can get!

    I really think CO is a problem most of America looks past, and I'm not sure why, well most are uneducated and having been through hours of training it really opened my eyes.

    Read up on them, and CO in that matter it could save you and your families life some day!

    I know a lot about them and can most likely answer any question you have on them, PM me if you have any questions.

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  2. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Are you talking about the one in my stove room? The one upstairs at the top of the stairs or the ones in each bedroom?
  3. Exmasonite

    Exmasonite Feeling the Heat

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    best source and cost?
  4. RnG17

    RnG17 New Member

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    You can find them online, I saw a price of $179 online, but that just a quick search on a flier for them, I know we sell them for around $195.

    I know I sound like a salesman, but if you think spending that kind of money on something that can save your life, tell us all how much your life is worth, and I bet its more than the cost of one of these monitors!
  5. greythorn3

    greythorn3 Minister of Fire

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    replace it every 5 years?
  6. fishingpol

    fishingpol Minister of Fire

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    Up here in Taxachusetts, we have "Nicole's law" since 2005 requiring them if you have fossil fuel burning appliances or the potential for CO. It is a good law to have. It is a steep price, but worth the $179.00 every five years. I saw firsthand years ago in a commercial building when a heat exchanger developed a crack in a forced air furnace and pushed CO into the ducts. Luckily it was daytime, as several people reported being lightheaded. Everyone evacuated the building just fine It is a true silent killer. Look up Nicole's Law and you will see why.
  7. remkel

    remkel Minister of Fire

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  8. EatenByLimestone

    EatenByLimestone Minister of Fire

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    My little battery powered one tripped at 19ppm. I know because I called the guys in the big dayglow green truck.

    Matt
  9. RnG17

    RnG17 New Member

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    Replace every 5 years is correct, like anything else with a sensor they should be replaced eventually. Most people don't know that smoke detectors should be replaced every 10 years.

    And I'm not saying store bought detectors are junk, they are better than nothing, I just wanted people to know that there is something else out there.

    I take mine on vacations with me. For me its a peace of mind thing. A few years back a father and daughter here in PA were at the beach and took a nap in their hotel room and they never woke up due to CO poisoning, I believe it was a venting issue with a water heater, but something so simple as having a monitor with them in the room they would still be alive today.
  10. jimbom

    jimbom Combustion Analyzer

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    I am always learning on this site. I looked on the back of our detectors. They do say 400ppm within 15 minutes. Do you know what dose is actionable from a health point? I do know carbon monoxide can be found in air. We put in a new shipyard wide 125 psi air system for industrial and breathing air in confined spaces. The system had CO monitor safety shutdown and we sampled at points of use. Tested the samples with mass spectrometry. There was always CO coming into the compressors and found at the points of use. However, it was kept within standards but I don't remember what those were.

    I was naive enough to believe that buying detectors in the store would meet the standard. I failed to consider that each state could have a different standard and that some might not meet health requirements.
  11. RnG17

    RnG17 New Member

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    From what I was told/taught . . .

    0-9ppm is normal CO level in air
    10-30ppm - problems over a long period
    30-40- flu like symptoms begin to start in young and elderly
    40-100ppm - flu like symptoms in healthy adults, headache, fatigue, vomiting
    100+ - severe symptoms, death has been noted at 400ppm!
  12. WhitePine

    WhitePine Feeling the Heat

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  13. jimbom

    jimbom Combustion Analyzer

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    Thank you.
  14. Mrs. Krabappel

    Mrs. Krabappel Minister of Fire

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    I am worth more dead than alive. My kiddo, however, is priceless :)
  15. Battenkiller

    Battenkiller Minister of Fire

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    I have the Kidde KN-COPP-3. AC plug-in with battery backup, digital display updates CO levels every 15 seconds, detects as little as 10 ppm within seconds. $40 @ HD. Mine showed a 20 ppm peak about a minute after I mistakenly left the top load door open while I worked on the fire with the front doors open. That's fast enough for me, and I'm a CO worry wart.
  16. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    I have a BRK model, which has the display: http://www.brkelectronics.com/pdfs/2009/04/09/44c3197d.pdf
    It is hardwired and interconnected.
    Although it has a display, which displays CO concentrations during an alarm, it doesn't give a constant readout of all values.
    I could see buying a Nighthawk, which I had in bygone days, to see these readings.
    I can see how UL would want to discourage false alarms though.

    It says in a FAQ:
    What Levels of CO Cause an Alarm

    Underwriters Laboratories Inc. Standard UL2034 requires residential CO Alarms to sound when exposed to levels of CO and exposure times as described below. They are measured in parts per million (ppm) of CO over time (in minutes). UL2034 Required Alarm Points*:

    •If the Alarm is exposed to 400 ppm of CO, IT MUST ALARM BETWEEN 4 and 15 MINUTES
    •If the Alarm is exposed to 150 ppm of CO, IT MUST ALARM BETWEEN 10 and 50 MINUTES.
    •If the Alarm is exposed to 70 ppm of CO, IT MUST ALARM BETWEEN 60 and 240 MINUTES.

    Note* Approximately 10% COHb exposure at levels of 10% to 95% Relative Humidity (RH). The unit is designed not to alarm when exposed to a constant level of 30 ppm for 30 days.

    IMPORTANT!
    CO Alarms are designed to alarm before there is an immediate life threat. Since you cannot see or smell CO, never assume it’s not present.
    •An exposure to 100 ppm of CO for 20 minutes may not affect average, healthy adults, but after 4 hours the same level may cause headaches.
    •An exposure to 400 ppm of CO may cause headaches in average, healthy adults after 35 minutes, but can cause death after 2 hours.
  17. Jimbob

    Jimbob New Member

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    ....Taxachussets, that's pretty funny, although I think our taxes are higher here. :lol:


    The fire department found 600 ppm in this family's home. They didn't have a CO detector, but phoned 911 because they felt ill.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2010/12/22/mb-carbon-monoxide-winnipeg.html

    A law was passed shortly after this, it requires even EXISTING homes to have either a battery-powered alarm, or a plug-in alarm with battery backup. The law goes a bit further than Nicole's law, in that ALL residences in Manitoba REGARDLESS of heating source MUST have at least 1 CO alarm. Non-compliance could result in a fine as high as $8.00. :bug:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2010/12/24/mb-monoxide-detectors-mandatory.html

    Sad how "Nicole's law" came into being, I just Googled it. :long:
  18. greythorn3

    greythorn3 Minister of Fire

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    i jsut got 2 combo packs from walmart 20$ each , for the 1 smoke det and one co2 det in one package.. says on the back alarm response 400PPM within 15 minutes.

    FIRST alert co2 # CO400 and Smoke detector SA303


    $19.98 combo pack SCO403


    i also have some of the 40$ digital readout ones from HD they are nice.
  19. gdk84

    gdk84 Member

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    I agree a CO detector is a must. However on thing that does piss me off, is when they decide to just "go off". This happens more than one can imagine and its not something you can detect weather it is legit. I think these things are cheaply built and i dont think its something to toy with. If these where as reliable as smoke alarms i think you would find most people would keep the batteries in them and in operating condition.
  20. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    It is my experience that the 'latching' models, which indicates which alarm initiated the commotion is useful in an interconnected system.
    I had a bunch of problems with the BRK combo photo/ion smoke alarms (now an old model), so much so that I replaced them with separate smoke and ion detectors, leading to a generally futuristic-looking ceiling. :)
  21. snowleopard

    snowleopard Minister of Fire

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    Alack, a google turned up several sad Nicole's Laws.

    Another cautionary tale: a woman I know became the parent of another child when her husband's heater in his shop failed and he was brain-damaged by CO poisoning. He went in a day from being the sole source of income and father of five to another dependent to be cared for. This woman had always been a stay at home mom, and yes--they had life insurance on him, but not disability. She asked me if I wanted to buy some Mary Kay products, and surprisingly, it turned out I *did* need some.
  22. henkmeuzelaar

    henkmeuzelaar New Member

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    You may well be right about some CO monitors producing "false alarms".

    On the other hand, it is quite easy to generate transient indoor CO level spikes by such diverse actions as opening the door to the garage right after someone started up a car in there, opening a door or window connecting to a busy traffic environment, especially close to traffic lights (idling cars), opening the stove (especially with a big bed of smoldering coals, let alone while adding some wet splits) or shoveling hot coals into a bucket (for later disposal).

    IMHO, the only practical way to decide whether a CO detector alarm is false or true is to have a second, co-located CO alarm and verify that both are showing the same response.

    Henk
  23. vixster

    vixster Member

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    Mine use to go off all the time. I changed the batteries but they still went off. So I decide to purchase new ones. The new ones are fine. They never go off. I suspect they hit EOL even though ithey hadn't past expiration. I feel better knowing that relpacing them resolved the alarm.
  24. Loco Gringo

    Loco Gringo Feeling the Heat

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    CO poisoning is the reason I have my job. A friend died last winter using a generator. I still feel guilty with having this job.
  25. firefighterjake

    firefighterjake Minister of Fire

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    That's just not right . . . not right at all . . . every kid knows fire trucks are supposed to be red . . . those green ones are just trucks that haven't ripened yet. ;)
    AppalachianStan likes this.
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