Coal vs. Pellet

[Pete Zahria]

I believe that a dull red glowing steel represents something like 650-700 degrees

around 1000-1200° So you REALLY had it cookin'

 

[Rob78]

I have the alaska channing III, it's 85,000 btu

 

[alternativeheat]

around 1000-1200° So you REALLY had it cookin'

Yep.

 

[alternativeheat]

I have the alaska channing III, it's 85,000 btu

Do you think you ever max out that 85,000btu ? You did say that you run it on medium mostly, one might sort of conclude from that that you maybe hit 40,000btu or so.

Harman pellet stoves run in a way that the flame comes and goes as needed to maintain a setting level, you do see a lot of moderate flame height but might well run up to the heat exchanger in height or drop back to an idle. This is especially so when running the stove in the room temp probe in Room Temp mode, and this action enables the stove to keep the house within a constant 1 degree or so setting. It works remarkably well

 

[adayrider]

I have been wanting to try a stoker. I burn corn and the ashes are alot better then pellets. I find it hard to believe that pellet ash will be easier to deal with when you have to burn alot more pellets to get the same heat. Which equals more ash. Unless coal ash is dirtier in some way. I live in Ohio so all we have is bituminous coal around here so I would have go to NE PA to get some anthracite coal for a stoker. Which is no big deal since I have truck and trailer to do that, and I run by there 2-3 times a week anyhow. But I would have to buy the stove and my corn burner will not die. And this is another great year to buy corn for lot less than pellets. Just the storage issue would be a no brainer for me, you have to keep pellets dry and even if you have a building to do that it still takes up space. I could buy a 24 ton load of coal and throw it in the yard with a tarp on it and be set for 6 or 8 years. Heck Tractor supply sells anthracite for $6 a bag here. They don't sell much, if any cause nobody sells stokers. Not many people even know there is a difference between bitmus and anthracite.
I have never had a stoker but with that being said, I think your crazy for thinking about it.

If you do switch and you want to sell your stoker at really good price, I'm really interested. It would have to be pretty good deal though cause they are for sale everywhere on craigslist do to cheap oil and gas. If I could get gas here that's probably what I would be burning.

 

[alternativeheat]

If I had access to a good and stable supply of rice coal I'd have a coal stoker vs pellets myself.

On the other hand corn is cheaper than coal or pellets where corn is readily available.. Not around here.

 

[Rob78]

No, I never max out my coal stove. This thing really throws the heat. As far as selling it I'm not sure that would happen and if it did it wouldn't be cheap. In my area coal stoves are in high demand. I'm just trying to get someone's view that has a pellet stove. I live less than one mile from a coal breaker. You can actually drive there and buy direct. Right now coal price is $180 a ton for rice and that's delivered. I have a numerous amount of options as far as coal delivery goes.

 

[alternativeheat]

No, I never max out my coal stove. This thing really throws the heat. As far as selling it I'm not sure that would happen and if it did it wouldn't be cheap. In my area coal stoves are in high demand. I'm just trying to get someone's view that has a pellet stove. I live less than one mile from a coal breaker. You can actually drive there and buy direct. Right now coal price is $180 a ton for rice and that's delivered. I have a numerous amount of options as far as coal delivery goes.

Rob, I wouldn't switch ( but that's me if in the situation you explain , besides the wife's views of course.She could be the deal breaker). Pellets cost more, you will use more of them and you do still have ash to contend with. The stove you have is awesome with great amounts of reserve heating capability and it looks good too. Around here if you can find rice coal at all it's 50 miles away and costs $300+ a ton plus about $60 delivery. I can drive down to the hardware store less than 1/2 mile from my house and pick up pellets or get them when at Home Depot etc etc. They are everywhere around here. It sounds like your situation is opposite mine.

 

[adayrider]

You already can buy coal delivered cheaper than most of us can by pellets. And there is more btu's in coal so you would need almost twice as many pellets. Almost twice the carrying, almost twice the loading the stove, and I will bet almost twice the ashes.
Have you priced pellets in your area?
How many ton of coal do you burn in a average a year?
You can do the math of 28,000,000 btu for a ton of coal against 16,000,000 for pellets and see how much more it will cost to burn pellets.

If coal stoves are in such high demand why are there so many on craigslist this year compared to in the past?
I have been thinking about going to coal for the last 5 years and this year used coal stoves are plentiful in your area.
And I doubt they are switching to pellets. My bet is propane, natural gas or fuel. Even electric has come down in my area from 7.31 cents to 5.13. That's over 35%.
.

 

[Rob78]

Alternative heat, thanks for your input. Yes I have a lot to choose from with the coal. I probably will not switch but just wanted some input. Pellets are about $250 a ton here.

The stoves being sold on craigslist are for the most part older models. Maybe they are upgrading. Yes in my area coal is in high demand, at least for the younger adults. It just may be people are lazy!! You will not get the stove I have cheap. Atleast here anyway

 

[adayrider]

Rob
I did not mean to offend you, if you took it like that. And I was not trying to steal "your" stoker off you. I was only trying to make a point is all. Alot of people are buying into this cheap oil and natural gas and I think it is a mistake.Although I would take advantage of it If I could. There has been some nice newer stokers for sale in your area, just as there alot of newer pellet stoves for sale in my area. Corn was the rage about 10 years ago then corn spiked for couple years and now very seldom do you even see corn burner for sale and if you do its cheap. And corn is almost as cheap this year as it was 10 years ago. Corn spiked and everone went pellets then pellets went up and fossil fuel has tanked and now everyone going there.
I would NOT sell your stoker if I was you is what I was trying to say. And I would definitely not buy a pellet stove in your shoes because it will cost you double to heat plus the cost of the pellet stove. You will have twice as many ashes and work to boot. If you have a oil or natural gas furnace sitting idol and you don't want ashes then fire that up. If not then keep on stoking.

 

[Pete Zahria]

I find it hard to believe that pellet ash will be easier to deal with
when you have to burn alot more pellets to get the same heat.
Which equals more ash. Unless coal ash is dirtier in some way.

You can believe what you want.
I had a Harman Mark III and emptied the pan every day..
take it outside ran/snow/zero/whatever. Put them into a metal garbage can.
Every week would take those ashes, and fill two empty coal bags for the trash pickup.
Stove is in the basement, and just about everything there,
over the years, got covered with black coal dust.
Last year, with the Harman P68, I think I might have emptied the pan once a month.
And it was never 'full'... Dumped the ash on the lawn.
So that was my experience with coal vs. pellets.
No comparison with the amount of work required. Or dust/ash.
Granted, the stokers are a little different than hand fired.
They have a bigger ash pan... but burn anthracite just the same..

Dan

 

[Lake Girl]

...(unless you open the ash door... then you can melt kryptonite) Dan

So that is the trick - I have some kryptonite I was looking to melt

You folks messing with Superman's kryptonite again!

The wood stove was so long ago I can't really compare ... just no bugs with pellets You do need dry storage space and it is usually better to buy by the pallet (40 to 60 bags). Dust can be lessened by using a shop vac sifter to remove fines and dust (you can seach for examples on the forum)... you still get some dust but a lot less. Pellet dust vs. coal dust ... I'll stick with pellets.

As to heating, it depends on home layout. With our 2000 sq foot, upstairs was not getting the heat so needed electric supplementation. Since most of the kids have moved out, we are planning on closing the upstairs off unless everybody comes home for a visit. The Elena is rated for 48000 btu and holds up fairly well to the -40 below. YMMV

 

[Lake Girl]

You already can buy coal delivered cheaper than most of us can by pellets. And there is more btu's in coal so you would need almost twice as many pellets. Almost twice the carrying, almost twice the loading the stove, and I will bet almost twice the ashes..

Yes ash would be a lot less with coal but I spread mine in the garden and under the neighbours pine trees so he can keep his grass growing there (pine needles change the acidity of the soil). Can't do the same with coal ash...

 

[adayrider]

You can believe what you want.
I had a Harman Mark III and emptied the pan every day..
take it outside ran/snow/zero/whatever. Put them into a metal garbage can.
Every week would take those ashes, and fill two empty coal bags for the trash pickup.
Stove is in the basement, and just about everything there,
over the years, got covered with black coal dust.
Last year, with the Harman P68, I think I might have emptied the pan once a month.
And it was never 'full'... Dumped the ash on the lawn.
So that was my experience with coal vs. pellets.
No comparison with the amount of work required. Or dust/ash.
Granted, the stokers are a little different than hand fired.
They have a bigger ash pan... but burn anthracite just the same..

Dan

I would guess the hand fired would admit a lot more dust to the inside giving you are opening the door to feed it every time it needed fuel. I am going to bet a stokers cuts a lot of that down. My corn burner makes for alot more dust compared to my electric furnace specially if I went years without doing it. And I am still not convinced that twice the amount of pellets produce half the amount of ash. Unless you are burning low ash pellets which cost more which defeats the purpose most burn pellets. And why not spread coal ash on yard as you do wood? And lets not forget $180 for 28,000.000 btu's to $250 for 16.000.000. I am willing to carry twice as many ashes for the difference, ashes are not all that much weight.

 

[Pete Zahria]

Yes ash would be a lot less with coal

I think you mean less with pellets...
There is no way coal has less ash than pellets over a season.
No mater how you slice it.
And you use around 1-1/2 to 1 ratio. (3 bags to 2 bags) not double.
Coal here is $325T.. pellets are $248T.
Sure... if you live near Pennsylvania it's a lot cheaper.
But a lot of people don't. We are one of them.
It cost a lot of money to truck them here...
4 tons of coal is $1300
6 tons of pellets is $1488

Understand. I am not trying to sell anyone on anything.
Just sharing my experience with both fuels
as I have read a few things that are just incorrect...

Dan

 

[adayrider]

I think you mean less with pellets...
There is no way coal has less ash than pellets over a season.
No mater how you slice it.
And you use around 1-1/2 to 1 ratio. (3 bags to 2 bags) not double.
Coal here is $325T.. pellets are $248T.
Sure... if you live near Pennsylvania it's a lot cheaper.
But a lot of people don't. We are one of them.
It cost a lot of money to truck them here...
4 tons of coal is $1300
6 tons of pellets is $1488

Understand. I am not trying to sell anyone on anything.
Just sharing my experience with both fuels
as I have read a few things that are just incorrect...

Dan

Nobody was debating why you don't burn coal so the prices you quote are not relevant.
28 million btu's divided by 16 million equals 1.75. Close to double.
Now $250 a ton vs $180 a ton
It would cost double for OP to heat with pellets.

I'm not trying to sell or buy anything just trying to help.

 

[Rob78]

Adayrider, no offense taken. I thank everyone for their response. Looks like I will be sticking with coal.

 

[alternativeheat]

I find it hard to believe that pellet ash will be easier to deal with when you have to burn alot more pellets to get the same heat. Which equals more ash.

I'd say 1.75 or so is about the right ratio based on what I used for coal and now what I use for pellets. But since switching to pellets I'm also heating a little more area and heating the whole area better as well ( because of the convection blower I presume, to which there wouldn't be that difference with a stoker).

I definitely had more ash with coal, part of which was a hard carbon/shale like substance, but some of that has to do with the grade of coal you get delivered too. But every week I would put out a bag about the size of a pellet bag full of ash for the trash guy to pick up. The P61 ash pan wouldn't fill that same bag a 1/4-1/3 full and I dump it once a month more or less, out in the wife's gardens.. You don't want coal ash anywhere near a garden ( acidic), not to mention it builds up and basically never goes away. But there is more work in getting the ash out of the pellet stove, you have to brush it down periodically, like once a week, just into the ash pan though.

 

[Pete Zahria]

It would cost double for OP to heat with pellets.

You're right... he lives in coal country... forgot that.

I'm not trying to sell or buy anything just trying to help.

Me too.
Was mostly about the mess... and the difference in consumption etc.

Dan

 

[Lake Girl]

EPA is currently debating whether coal ash is a hazardous waste because of the quantities of arsenic, mercury, lead, cadmium, boron, selenium contained in the ash. The coal ash can be beneficially added to concrete and can be used to fill old mines(industrial burners). The concern with adding to your yard or garden is the toxicity to the water table and your vegetables.

Wood ash is 25% calcium carbonate, 10% potassium, 1% phosphorous. Can be used to lime gardens or fields. Changes the pH of acidic soils. Since most pellets are waste from milling processes like flooring and dimensional lumber fairly clean wood waste. If it was from recycled construction waste, it is a different source and likely contains paint or treatment for waterproofing and then contains the some of the same hazards as coal ash. That concern is more for hog fuels used in cogen plants.

Argument is useless to me since can't get coal here even if I wanted it. Went looking for the info since I want others to be cognizant of the detrimental effects of spreading coal ash in the yard.

 

[alternativeheat]

Well pellets have the favor of the environmentalist for a reason and they target coal as the bad guy also for a reason. Of course bituminous coal is really the main target. On another note, I don't think you will be seeing a strip mine renewing itself ( though hey, wait a couple of million years one never knows for sure) LOL ! Trees grow every where, be it controlled or uncontrolled. Tell me about it, as I have oaks and especially these foolish huge shallow root things taking root in my yard ( or trying to) all the time..

 

[UpStateNY]

A guy I work with has an older coal stove in the living room with no electric moving parts or fans. His coal stove is radiant heat not hot air like wood pellet stove. When it gets cold enough he starts it up and never shuts it down during the winter unless he goes away on vacation for a week.

 

[Deezl Smoke]

EPA is currently debating whether coal ash is a hazardous waste because of the quantities of arsenic, mercury, lead, cadmium, boron, selenium contained in the ash. The coal ash can be beneficially added to concrete and can be used to fill old mines(industrial burners). The concern with adding to your yard or garden is the toxicity to the water table and your vegetables.

Wood ash is 25% calcium carbonate, 10% potassium, 1% phosphorous. Can be used to lime gardens or fields. Changes the pH of acidic soils. Since most pellets are waste from milling processes like flooring and dimensional lumber fairly clean wood waste. If it was from recycled construction waste, it is a different source and likely contains paint or treatment for waterproofing and then contains the some of the same hazards as coal ash. That concern is more for hog fuels used in cogen plants.

Argument is useless to me since can't get coal here even if I wanted it. Went looking for the info since I want others to be cognizant of the detrimental effects of spreading coal ash in the yard.

Therein lies the location issue with most all arguments/discussions on heating fuel types.

Here in Oregon, we have lots of irrigation water available and using fossil fuel to power a remote pump is common and most cost effective. However, in south central Washington state it appears that electricity can be run almost anywhere for less money than fossil fuel powered pumps. It's a location thing. The large solar farms that are popping up everywhere now require locations near power substations. They have a low mile limit to how far they can be.

Here in western Oregon we have a huge supply of soft and hard woods for pellets and/or cord wood heat. But coal is only sold by the individual bag at very sparse locations for hobby use.

 

[Pete Zahria]

Here in western Oregon we have a huge supply of soft and hard woods for pellets

And it costs plenty to get it to my side of the country!!
But it is awesome stuff.....


Dan