What are the pro and con of coal. If you were going to be buying your wood is coal cheaper to burn?
coal vs wood
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besides the sulfur smelling exhaust, all things being equal, meaning pay for you wood and coal. Coal is still the lowest cost per BTU,
if you live near coal country. If some of your wood come from low cost sources like scrounging the scales tip towards wood
if you live near coal country. If some of your wood come from low cost sources like scrounging the scales tip towards wood
wg_bent
Minister of Fire
Coal is also a lot easier to deal with. Very low effort to fiddle with the stove a couple times a day.
Coal reacts slower than wood. Need heat fast? Not with coal.
Coal is good for 24/7 burning and coming home to a warm house after work.
ON the other hand, it's much worse for the environment.
Coal reacts slower than wood. Need heat fast? Not with coal.
Coal is good for 24/7 burning and coming home to a warm house after work.
ON the other hand, it's much worse for the environment.
I heated with coal 100% for the last 3 winters, burning about 5 1/2 months per year. I had an Alaska Kast Konsole stoker in my basement, which burned rice coal, and has an 80-lb capacity hopper. Several of my friends heat exclusively or partially with coal, all in Harman Mark III stoves burning nut coal.
The cost can vary according to your location and type of coal you burn. Generally, the larger coal requires less processing and screening, and is cheaper than rice coal. Bagged coal runs about 5 dollars a bag here, last summer I paid 90/ton for rice coal, I picked it up right at the breaker. It would have been 150 delivered. I burned close to 6 tons a year, with my stove in the basement and with an old, old house that doesn't have a lot in the way of insulation, but does have new windows/doors. Most of my friends that heat with just coal run about 4 tons per year.
Dollar for dollar, nothing matches anthracite for cost if you buy fuel. Of course, if your wood is free, that wins out. I never had any problem with smelling exhaust from my stove. One thing to keep in mind, which I didn't like about my stove, is that you CANNOT burn coal under any circumstances when the outside temp is above 50 F. You will kill yourself if you do, coal does not create draft like wood. I like to be able to burn a small wood fire in the fall and spring to chase the chill, so the stoker just wouldn't cut it. But nothing beats the convenience of the stoker, I tended it twice a day, it would go close to 18 hours on a load on low.
Another thing to keep in mind is disposal of ash/cinders. Coal flyash is toxic waste, and any neighbor that wants to can turn you in if you just dump it in the yard, and you will have to pay to have a hazmat contractor come in and clean it up. Not that it's plutonium, just be very discreet if you have a small lot.
I produced about 8 cubic yards of cinders/ash per year, some went on the driveway, but the rest had to be disposed of, which was a pain since I live in town. A normal concrete truck holds about 10 yards for comparison.
Coal has a steeper learning curve than wood, you will smother a fire or two, overshake and put it out, not shake enough, too much draft (you can reaaaaally overfire a stove with coal!). Once you get your process figured out, it's no problem, takes a few minutes to take care of.
Hope this all helps. My stoker was destroyed in the floods in June, I bought a new wood/coal furnace this year. I haven't burned coal in it yet, though. I have a couple bags on hand if I want to try it later in the season.
The cost can vary according to your location and type of coal you burn. Generally, the larger coal requires less processing and screening, and is cheaper than rice coal. Bagged coal runs about 5 dollars a bag here, last summer I paid 90/ton for rice coal, I picked it up right at the breaker. It would have been 150 delivered. I burned close to 6 tons a year, with my stove in the basement and with an old, old house that doesn't have a lot in the way of insulation, but does have new windows/doors. Most of my friends that heat with just coal run about 4 tons per year.
Dollar for dollar, nothing matches anthracite for cost if you buy fuel. Of course, if your wood is free, that wins out. I never had any problem with smelling exhaust from my stove. One thing to keep in mind, which I didn't like about my stove, is that you CANNOT burn coal under any circumstances when the outside temp is above 50 F. You will kill yourself if you do, coal does not create draft like wood. I like to be able to burn a small wood fire in the fall and spring to chase the chill, so the stoker just wouldn't cut it. But nothing beats the convenience of the stoker, I tended it twice a day, it would go close to 18 hours on a load on low.
Another thing to keep in mind is disposal of ash/cinders. Coal flyash is toxic waste, and any neighbor that wants to can turn you in if you just dump it in the yard, and you will have to pay to have a hazmat contractor come in and clean it up. Not that it's plutonium, just be very discreet if you have a small lot.
I produced about 8 cubic yards of cinders/ash per year, some went on the driveway, but the rest had to be disposed of, which was a pain since I live in town. A normal concrete truck holds about 10 yards for comparison. Coal has a steeper learning curve than wood, you will smother a fire or two, overshake and put it out, not shake enough, too much draft (you can reaaaaally overfire a stove with coal!). Once you get your process figured out, it's no problem, takes a few minutes to take care of.
Hope this all helps. My stoker was destroyed in the floods in June, I bought a new wood/coal furnace this year. I haven't burned coal in it yet, though. I have a couple bags on hand if I want to try it later in the season.
That makes sense, but the prices are what they are, around here anyway. Also, larger coal would probably be somewhat greater volume in the truck, ton for ton. The difference is usually only 10-30 dollars a ton anyway. You can also get stove coal very cheap, but no one delivers it, because it's a pain to get through the chutes.
My dad's boss has a huge outdoor stoker, loads it with a skid steer. He heats his house, garage, basement with 18' ceilings (yes eighteen feet, he has a trampoline down there), and his driveway and sidewalks. He burns a little more than I do.
As far as coal-burning stoves go, I don't think you can go wrong with a Harman, plus you can burn wood in them too. Little pricey, but it should outlast you if cared for. Just my opinion.
My dad's boss has a huge outdoor stoker, loads it with a skid steer. He heats his house, garage, basement with 18' ceilings (yes eighteen feet, he has a trampoline down there), and his driveway and sidewalks. He burns a little more than I do.
As far as coal-burning stoves go, I don't think you can go wrong with a Harman, plus you can burn wood in them too. Little pricey, but it should outlast you if cared for. Just my opinion.
Corie
Minister of Fire
Gibbonboy has about covered it all, couldn't have said it any better myself. If you have any other questions though, I'm also here for help.
Warren said:
Yup. MUCH worse for the environment. Coal burning is the #1 source of mercury contamination in the world.
The Dept. of Energy is trying to get power companies (main consumers of coal in the USA) to switch to cleaner burning technology that scrubs out the Mercury & Sulfer (sulfer causes soot or acid rain, depending)
FYI, don't let your kids eat tuna - it has enough mercury in it to retard brain development - Children on the Pacific Islands that eat fish daily have an IQ that is 10% lower than their peers that have a more 'inland' diet.
I have Yukon Big Jack Wood/Coal Furnace. Right now I have a good surply of wood but was just thinking about coal
if I hurt my.shoulder/back or something. I'm not even sure where they sell coal around me. I geuss the phone would tell.
if I hurt my.shoulder/back or something. I'm not even sure where they sell coal around me. I geuss the phone would tell.
Corie
Minister of Fire
Depending on where you're from, I could give you some names on where you could get bulk or bagged coal.
We get our coal delivered in bulk, three tons at a time that we store in an outside holding bin. Also have a smaller bin, that holds approximately one ton located right next to the door so you can just poke your head out, stick the shovel in, fill the bucket and run back inside.
We burn coal in a stove, not a furnace, but as far as heat output and fire maintainence goes, its hard to beat. In the winter time, loading in the morning and night and shaking at those same times is all it takes. Hard to beat the steady and constant heat output of a coal stove. We're in Northeast pa, so the price is also hard to beat. Of course all of our wood is free, so we try to burn as much of that as possible and save the coal for when the temperature is lower. As was stated earlier, low outside temperatures are essential for coal burning in a natural draft hand-fired unit.
We get our coal delivered in bulk, three tons at a time that we store in an outside holding bin. Also have a smaller bin, that holds approximately one ton located right next to the door so you can just poke your head out, stick the shovel in, fill the bucket and run back inside.
We burn coal in a stove, not a furnace, but as far as heat output and fire maintainence goes, its hard to beat. In the winter time, loading in the morning and night and shaking at those same times is all it takes. Hard to beat the steady and constant heat output of a coal stove. We're in Northeast pa, so the price is also hard to beat. Of course all of our wood is free, so we try to burn as much of that as possible and save the coal for when the temperature is lower. As was stated earlier, low outside temperatures are essential for coal burning in a natural draft hand-fired unit.
coldinnj
New Member
I may have a little knowledge on this as my only heat source for the past 15 years has been a coal furnace. Hand shovel (no stoker), manual draft control, Manual everything. Large, old, uninsulated home. Prior to that many years heating another facility with coal only.
I agree with Gibbonboy on the reasons why Stove coal is cheaper. As I have experience at the breakers where the coal is processed. There is less processing involved with Stove coal then with the smaller sizes hence less cost. That being said however there are fewer and fewer dealers selling Stove coal. The basic reasons are:
1) fewer customers are buying it as most newer stoves / furnaces don't use it. So why stock a product that you do not move out of inventory.
2) The quality has gone down a lot and especially on the Stove coal size.
3) As there is less processing on Stove coal it is often not as clean. During the shipping and handeling more fines are produced as well as other garbage from the mishandling. This is detrimental to the best operation of a system designed to handle larger coal as the air passages can get clogged more easily affecting draft.
4) Remember a lot of smaller coal is produced atthe breakers without attempt via the natural remains from working with the larger coal hence offsetting the processing for the smaller coal.
I would disagree with the statement about volume when transporting. The diofference is negligable. Although it would seem that due to the size differences with lost air space etc. between say rice and stove it countered by the greater density of the large stove as opposed to the small constant air spaces from rice. Hence the standard indices assume the "weight" be measured via volume as the same for both sizes. Shipping costs therefore do not vary. Accuracy down to the smallest amount can more easily be achieved with rice or wheat but rarely do we see those accuracies being maintained. How often has one recieved a delivery and found it cited to the ounce or checked to see if it was correct.
Gibbonboy - what breaker did you go to for your coal?
My favorite was "Lehigh Coal and Navigation" AKA "Old Company Lehigh" They had the best Anthracite around for many years.
I agree with Gibbonboy on the reasons why Stove coal is cheaper. As I have experience at the breakers where the coal is processed. There is less processing involved with Stove coal then with the smaller sizes hence less cost. That being said however there are fewer and fewer dealers selling Stove coal. The basic reasons are:
1) fewer customers are buying it as most newer stoves / furnaces don't use it. So why stock a product that you do not move out of inventory.
2) The quality has gone down a lot and especially on the Stove coal size.
3) As there is less processing on Stove coal it is often not as clean. During the shipping and handeling more fines are produced as well as other garbage from the mishandling. This is detrimental to the best operation of a system designed to handle larger coal as the air passages can get clogged more easily affecting draft.
4) Remember a lot of smaller coal is produced atthe breakers without attempt via the natural remains from working with the larger coal hence offsetting the processing for the smaller coal.
I would disagree with the statement about volume when transporting. The diofference is negligable. Although it would seem that due to the size differences with lost air space etc. between say rice and stove it countered by the greater density of the large stove as opposed to the small constant air spaces from rice. Hence the standard indices assume the "weight" be measured via volume as the same for both sizes. Shipping costs therefore do not vary. Accuracy down to the smallest amount can more easily be achieved with rice or wheat but rarely do we see those accuracies being maintained. How often has one recieved a delivery and found it cited to the ounce or checked to see if it was correct.
Gibbonboy - what breaker did you go to for your coal?
My favorite was "Lehigh Coal and Navigation" AKA "Old Company Lehigh" They had the best Anthracite around for many years.
coldinnj
New Member
As to coal suppliers, not a lot of choices around here anymore:
Blashack, Jedo Highland, Coal Contractors ( or it may be Coal Consolidators), South Tamaqua Coal pockets,...
Blashack, Jedo Highland, Coal Contractors ( or it may be Coal Consolidators), South Tamaqua Coal pockets,...
AIRJET4U
New Member
As a mfg of pre fab chimneys, I would recommend that you not use prefabs with coal due to the sulfar, sulfar mixes with water becomes sulfuric acid, that will eat up stainless steel
coldinnj
New Member
Airjet. I agree with you... However why do so many places say that if you are using a coal insert, you need to use a stainless steel liner?
AIRJET4U
New Member
You would have to ask them, I wouldnt recommend it unless you know for a fact that the coal is low in sulfar
coldinnj
New Member
I prefer low in sulphur but alas that is not always possible anymore.
Whenever I mention to them the use of either black pipe or Galvanized they tell me due to the coal I have to use stainless steel. ??? Maybe it just makes for a bigger sale?
Whenever I mention to them the use of either black pipe or Galvanized they tell me due to the coal I have to use stainless steel. ??? Maybe it just makes for a bigger sale?
wg_bent
Minister of Fire
When I did some research last year I found that Stainless will degrade with coal due to the sulphuric acid problem, but black pipe too will corrode. I remember in high school on year when we took the coal stove apart to clean it, the pipe directly off the stove literally fell apart in my hands. there was NOTHING left of it. It was black pipe. We used to put baking soda in the chimney (clay lined) around april or may after the stove went out, but I don't think we did that down as far as the pipe. Our Pipe connected to into a clay chimney. Drafted so well that we added a damper to control the draft and a home made heat exchanger that hung off the back of the stove (LOL
! made out of aluminum) (Looking back...Yeah, Dad...that was a good idea :roll: )
But the point is that I think that with any steel pipe, it will degrade over time no matter what with coal. Stainless is more expensive. I don't think you have to be worried about avoiding 2100 degree chimney fires, but your local code may still require the stainless for some reason. Maybe Elk would know more on this.
! made out of aluminum) (Looking back...Yeah, Dad...that was a good idea :roll: )But the point is that I think that with any steel pipe, it will degrade over time no matter what with coal. Stainless is more expensive. I don't think you have to be worried about avoiding 2100 degree chimney fires, but your local code may still require the stainless for some reason. Maybe Elk would know more on this.
Recomended by liner manufactures is 316ti or even better 320 grade stainless steel
Warren is correct it will eat common 24 gage in less than one years use The recomendation is to get the best ss grade you can afford
Sulfuric acid is also tough on masonary products. The chimney has to be totally cleaned in the spring. One cannot allow that sulfur to combine with warmer humidity of summer and condensate in that chimney. without cleaning and removing as much sulfur as possible.
Coal heat is an option but it is burning fossil fuel. Burned correctly it will heat quite a large area. You will find a green side of this forum, that will try to remind you there is an enviorment price paid with coal burning. Not just from exhaust but the leftover ash disposal. There are choices you have to weigh out. Also plan on chimney mantiance and liner replacements down the road.
Your stove also has to really cleaned after the burning season. If you leave ash in there the sulfuric acid will eats metal. Some states have band using coal stoves, I think Co is one
Warren is correct it will eat common 24 gage in less than one years use The recomendation is to get the best ss grade you can afford
Sulfuric acid is also tough on masonary products. The chimney has to be totally cleaned in the spring. One cannot allow that sulfur to combine with warmer humidity of summer and condensate in that chimney. without cleaning and removing as much sulfur as possible.
Coal heat is an option but it is burning fossil fuel. Burned correctly it will heat quite a large area. You will find a green side of this forum, that will try to remind you there is an enviorment price paid with coal burning. Not just from exhaust but the leftover ash disposal. There are choices you have to weigh out. Also plan on chimney mantiance and liner replacements down the road.
Your stove also has to really cleaned after the burning season. If you leave ash in there the sulfuric acid will eats metal. Some states have band using coal stoves, I think Co is one
berlin
New Member
actually, no states have banned coal use in residential heating, only the wacky city of boulder, co has banned coal, and manhattan, that's it as far as i know in the US.
btw, gibbonboy, stop spewing bad info. fly ash is used in many states/counties/localities to treat road surfaces in the winter; the conditions under which it is treated as hazmat is not applicable to a homeowner, for one of the simple reasons that homeowners generate little to no fly ash, only bottom ash.
btw, gibbonboy, stop spewing bad info. fly ash is used in many states/counties/localities to treat road surfaces in the winter; the conditions under which it is treated as hazmat is not applicable to a homeowner, for one of the simple reasons that homeowners generate little to no fly ash, only bottom ash.
berlin said:
It's not fly ash they put on roads, it's cinders. The fly ash must be removed first- this is in every state bid spec for anti-skid. And, since I (a) am a hazmat technician and (b) work all day with DEP people, and (c) have asked said people about home coal burning waste and gotten their professional answers, I don't think I'm "spewing bad info". Coal ash and cinders contains lots of lead, arsenic, selenium, copper, chromium, and other metals that you don't want in the soil in your yard. They do use some ash in concrete products, but there it is bound in the matrix and much less likely to leach contaminants. One major example is roller-compacted concrete, which uses a fair amount of fly ash. Would you want someone dumping "just a little" used motor oil next to your well? I wouldn't say anything that I hadn't already researched, I don't like those that "talk out of their 4th point of contact". Thanks, sorry if this comes off rude, it's not meant to be at all. As the quote goes: "Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics- even if you win, you're still retarded.".
berlin
New Member
do some more reasearch. all fly ash is not considered haz-mat. it depends on the concentrations of certain minerals in the ash, this goes for bottom ash too. I am not going to get into a pissing match about credentials, but from this brief discussion, it is obvious your knowledge in this are is lacking, perhaps you should spend more time with those that work on the floor above you. i don't care where you get your info or spec's, we sell 60% of our heavy fly ash from one of our plants to counties for anti-skid treatment, many times the bottom ash is used as well.
What kind of furnace do you have? Mine is a Yukon Big Jack. I heated last winter with wood,but would like to try coal in the future.
laynes69
Minister of Fire
Big Eric, I thought I couldn't find coal either, but I contacted Blaschak Coal to find dealers in my area. I found a local amish farm that carries it for me. Give them an E-mail. I have burned their coal, Its Anthracite and its very high quality coal. I haven't checked on the prices this year, but last year I could have gotten it for 185.00 A ton. One ton of anthracite coal produces 26,000,000 BTU/TON which is equivelent to about 1.3 cords of wood. Here is the website. If the woods free then I would burn it, but I do use coal on the long cold nights in the dead of winter.
http://www.blaschakcoal.com/html/home.htm
http://www.blaschakcoal.com/html/home.htm
berlin
New Member
each state is different, but under 2.5 million btu/hour generally nothing is required especially in a residential application. the laws are not always clear in every state, and none that i know of specifically mention residential ash disposal, no one will waste time with a homeowner, because additionally much of the ash from most coal is not regarded as haz-mat, and in many circumstances large amounts of coal ash are used as fill and a soil additive as well as being used in very large quantities for anti-skid on road surfaces.
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