Code question, ELk?

[kevinmoelk]

You guys have it easy, lol.

My house was built in three stages, and each has it's own wiring, each section done by a crappy electrician. The only part of it that was done correctly was the mudroom I built this year. I have found everything from unboxed pigtails, old crumbling cloth wire, too many outlets on a circuit, bad switches, bad outlets, ungrounded outlets, double grounds, exposed wires, 10 wires taped together with electrical tape, an unsecured sub panel (just hanging in mid air), main panel right on the floor, loose wires not in conduit, wires buried under lots of insulation, etc.

I'm looking at a whole re-wire job. Just for kicks I had an electrical contractor come look and give me a bid for $13,000 bucks to fix everything. Let me think about that one for a minute, do it myself for about $2-3K or pay you guys... hummm. I just work on the worst parts first, and slowly fix things up as time and money allow. What else is a guy to do?

-Kevin

 

[Hogwildz]

Hey, nothing beats what I found.

Get this sh&t.

1. Went to check electrical systems in basement. Passed house inspector, realized the former owners had redone kitchen, including electrical, without permitting the electrical. Crud. Figure I'll check it out, change anything I don't like (dangerous, outdated, etc.) then get a permit to cover everything. Found a BX (Armor cable) line running in basement to a little box with 2 glass fuses in it. Had to study the damn thing to figure out what it was doing. They were using the box to split the single pair of wires to 2 BX cables. Ah-ha! stupid, but at least it makes sense. My dad wanders over, starts cursing with wide eyes. "They fused the neutral!" I look again. Oh, yeah. Blow a fuse, figure it out by electrocuting someone. Great fuse tester. Ran conduit, subpanel, 4 eight gauge copper conductors, and cut that sucker off ASAP.

2. Went to look at the dining room chandelier. Could see the wires for the light fixture cut at the fixture. Figure it is like the parlor chandelier. Used a chain with wire to get to an outlet. (OLD house) Nope, pulled the escutcheon, and there are wires in the ceiling. Ok, where's the switch? Hallway light switch wires read contiguous. Ok, wired it up, huh? When switch is off, hallway light off, dining room light on. When switch is on, hallway light on, dining room light off. Ok, pull both fixtures and switch. Replace switch. Nope. Meter ALL wires, really screwy. There was a cluster of bonded neutrals in the hallway light fixture. Ouch. Wait! They are hot? Cut them all (with breaker off), and meter them. Yup, they stuck a hot in there. Rewired all, now the switch works fine. Off, both off. On, both on.

Have installed 4 subpanels to date. As I touch wires, they get replaced. Unidentifiables get cut from the breaker, lugged, taped, labeled, and pushed into the walls. Argh.

Thought you'd get a kick out of it.

Joshua

I am going through the same bs here. Previous owner used push in outlets, meaning the wires push in th back. Well the wires started coming out, causing breakers to trip etc. I went to replace with clamp type 20 amp outlets, only 1-1/2" of wire coming into each box. I can't even get my hands in the box to connect the damn wires. Hade to piggytail extentions onto the existing wires. Not ready to tear drywall down yet. Tore drywall down in basement that got wet during the massive flood last summer. Behind low and behold I find wires spliced together no junction box, just taped together & stuffed behind the drywall. None of the basement wiring is run through floor joists, just stples to the bottoms etc etc etc. F'in ahole previous owner. Oh well when addition is done, willl start redoing all in main house.
Also found a wire to an outside light which was added on late, not through the wall cavity, but between the foam wall insulation board and the exterior siding.
This makes me both I'll, and scared as to what else is hidden behind the rest of the walls. Home inspector should have picked alot of this up. I went around checking interior outlets with a tester, and many, many ungrounded outlets etc. I'd like to see this guy just one more time. Thats all that would be needed.

Sorry hogwildz, most cases when you have ungrounded outlets it means you have knob and tube there in the house that stuff sucks get rid of it.

Joshua, Believe it or not it was somewhat common to fuse the neutrals as well as the hot wires when they used knob and tube wiring.... however when they did this the hots were fused at the panel the neutrals were usually buried in the walls where they could never be found.

Another reason knob & tube sucks.......

No knob & tube here. The guy just pigtailed the wires together, but did not run one to the outlet itself. I got most of those corrected.
This place was built in 93, so def no know & tube here. Fairly tight modern home. Just the usual bs to have to be corrected.
One thing at a time, and some day maybe I'll be able to get some free time for other things. I just make a challenge out of it for myself. To better & improve, that motivates me, and in the end I feel safer for my family.

Well I would hunt that electrician down and give him a beating.
No master electrician worth his salt uses the backwire outlets. (unless they are the prograde where the screws on the side actually clamp against the wire which cuts down on the time to loop the wire around the terminal screw)
They also don't bury splices in the walls. (even if it was spliced in a box and then drywalled over this is illegal too)
They also leave the required 6" of wire inside the outlet box.
And they always connect the ground wires.....
Forget the home inspector find the guy that wired the house................................. ;-)

Damn I'm gonna have to bring my code book home from work you guys are asking alot this week about NEC.......

LOL now, now, your bringing on alot of this yourself, cause you just can't help yourself LMAO.
The electrician is actually the previous owner. And He supposedly had a licensed electrician either help him, or do some of the work.
Some looks ok, alot looks like crap. In any case, I now go by the fix as you go motto.

 

[Hogwildz]

You guys have it easy, lol.

My house was built in three stages, and each has it's own wiring, each section done by a crappy electrician. The only part of it that was done correctly was the mudroom I built this year. I have found everything from unboxed pigtails, old crumbling cloth wire, too many outlets on a circuit, bad switches, bad outlets, ungrounded outlets, double grounds, exposed wires, 10 wires taped together with electrical tape, an unsecured sub panel (just hanging in mid air), main panel right on the floor, loose wires not in conduit, wires buried under lots of insulation, etc.

I'm looking at a whole re-wire job. Just for kicks I had an electrical contractor come look and give me a bid for $13,000 bucks to fix everything. Let me think about that one for a minute, do it myself for about $2-3K or pay you guys... hummm. I just work on the worst parts first, and slowly fix things up as time and money allow. What else is a guy to do?

-Kevin

Nothing Wrench, all we can do is fix as we go. As you said the worst first, the rest down the line. Unfortunately we can't see most of this stuff till we start our own projects, then bamm.... 1 project just turned into 5 more automatically. I personally still love my house, hate all the work ahead of me, but its got to be done, and like you I A) I dont have the cash to shell out to someone. B) wouldn't let myself if I did C) can just plain do it right & cheaper in the process. Plus theres nothing better than a combo of learning something new & the feeling of accomplishment after finishing it the right way. I am finding the previous owner here, sabatoged some things before they left and I got in. Of all the ahole things I have done, I would never do that to someones family, I don't fear for me, its the woman & kids I worry about. Just ain't right. But hes in Arkansas now, nothing I can do. Just fix it and move on.
Just sucks spending a load on a house, only to find your spending more, and not just a lil, even DIY route.
Oh well, we love our homes, otherwise we wouldn't do what we do.

 

[Gooserider]

The 12/14 split the way you describe it makes sense, I just figure it's easier to keep track of stuff if I just have one size wire to worry about. Last time I looked the price difference between 12/2wg and 14/2wg was only a few bucks, and I decided the extra cost was worth it.

I did the same thing when networking the house - The telco stuff only requires four conductor cat3 wire and RJ-11 jacks, but I put the same cat5e and RJ-45 jacks in for the phone as I did for the network. The cost difference was nominal, and the hassle reduction was immense. (I didn't think it made sense to spend the 50% more for cat6 wiring)

Gooserider

Here it was quite a dif between the 14 & 12 gauge. By almost double. Plus for me easier to keep track of all the wiring running through several same areas to the sub panel. And I did mark each wires casing with the circuit it runs to.

I also bought the cat5 wire, haven't run the telecom wiring yet but did read its not to be ran parallel to the 12 or 14 gauge within 6 feet. Although it also states you may run vertically to the other electrical lines. which is almost inpossible not to do anywyas. I am also going to need to get the special cat 6 to reroute the existing saltellite internet wiring from existing temp office in main part of house to the new office in addition., shouldn't be a problem as it is around or under 50', and is said to be good to 100'. So much to do and no time to do it

The rule that I've seen, (in multiple places, including my low voltage BICSI Residential Network Cabling book) is that you should stay at least ONE foot away from AC on parallel runs if at all possible. If possible, don't share a stud or a stud bay, or at least stay on opposite studs in the same bay. It is OK to cross AC lines although this should be avoided if possible. When crossing lines do so at a 90* angle, or as close to it as you can.

I also felt that cable is cheap, while the work of pulling is a real pain, so I MASSIVELY over wired the house on the theory that I never wanted to have to pull another wire. I have over 6K feet of wire into the walls! I put outlets in just about every room of the house, including the bathrooms :coolsmile: (my response to Murphy's legislation about the odds of the phone ringing vs. comfort levels...) Most outlets contain two each TV / Video outlets (RG6/quad) Ethernet, and phone jacks, though I only put one set in "low traffic" outlets like the bathrooms and kitchen. The larger rooms, including the bedrooms have two outlets each. The potential "home theater" locations I put in four video outlets and three phone jacks, along with the two ethernets.

I also left pull strings to each jack so that if I DO ever need to update, it will be a little easier.

FWIW, the best overall place I found for advice on this project was DUX computer lots of practical expert advice from a guy that's been doing it for a long time. If you search on my username, you can find the long thread where I went through the process of getting the house wired.

The best place I've found overall for network supplies is Miles Tek

I am a bit confused by your saying that you need Cat6 cable for your satellite - We do cable here, but my understanding was that satellite needed a special coax, not Cat6 Ethernet cable. Also they only need special wire between the antenna dish and the first converter box, after that it's supposed to be standard RG6quad for the video stuff and normal Cat5e for the computer stuff...

Gooserider

 

[Hogwildz]

The 12/14 split the way you describe it makes sense, I just figure it's easier to keep track of stuff if I just have one size wire to worry about. Last time I looked the price difference between 12/2wg and 14/2wg was only a few bucks, and I decided the extra cost was worth it.

I did the same thing when networking the house - The telco stuff only requires four conductor cat3 wire and RJ-11 jacks, but I put the same cat5e and RJ-45 jacks in for the phone as I did for the network. The cost difference was nominal, and the hassle reduction was immense. (I didn't think it made sense to spend the 50% more for cat6 wiring)

Gooserider

Here it was quite a dif between the 14 & 12 gauge. By almost double. Plus for me easier to keep track of all the wiring running through several same areas to the sub panel. And I did mark each wires casing with the circuit it runs to.

I also bought the cat5 wire, haven't run the telecom wiring yet but did read its not to be ran parallel to the 12 or 14 gauge within 6 feet. Although it also states you may run vertically to the other electrical lines. which is almost inpossible not to do anywyas. I am also going to need to get the special cat 6 to reroute the existing saltellite internet wiring from existing temp office in main part of house to the new office in addition., shouldn't be a problem as it is around or under 50', and is said to be good to 100'. So much to do and no time to do it

The rule that I've seen, (in multiple places, including my low voltage BICSI Residential Network Cabling book) is that you should stay at least ONE foot away from AC on parallel runs if at all possible. If possible, don't share a stud or a stud bay, or at least stay on opposite studs in the same bay. It is OK to cross AC lines although this should be avoided if possible. When crossing lines do so at a 90* angle, or as close to it as you can.

I also felt that cable is cheap, while the work of pulling is a real pain, so I MASSIVELY over wired the house on the theory that I never wanted to have to pull another wire. I have over 6K feet of wire into the walls! I put outlets in just about every room of the house, including the bathrooms :coolsmile: (my response to Murphy's legislation about the odds of the phone ringing vs. comfort levels...) Most outlets contain two each TV / Video outlets (RG6/quad) Ethernet, and phone jacks, though I only put one set in "low traffic" outlets like the bathrooms and kitchen. The larger rooms, including the bedrooms have two outlets each. The potential "home theater" locations I put in four video outlets and three phone jacks, along with the two ethernets.

I also left pull strings to each jack so that if I DO ever need to update, it will be a little easier.

FWIW, the best overall place I found for advice on this project was DUX computer lots of practical expert advice from a guy that's been doing it for a long time. If you search on my username, you can find the long thread where I went through the process of getting the house wired.

The best place I've found overall for network supplies is Miles Tek

I am a bit confused by your saying that you need Cat6 cable for your satellite - We do cable here, but my understanding was that satellite needed a special coax, not Cat6 Ethernet cable. Also they only need special wire between the antenna dish and the first converter box, after that it's supposed to be standard RG6quad for the video stuff and normal Cat5e for the computer stuff...

Gooserider

Your right it is RG6quad, the guy left me 25 extra feet worth, but don't think thats going to make it. And I want to keep the splices as least as possible due to signal degregation. I don't think I will be going with as many tv/video & phone outlets as you. But I will be adding some in my office & new bedroom. The main house is as it is. Not touching that for a while. at least until the addition is complete.

 

[Gooserider]

Kind of off-topic, but why is it that many switches and outlets won't let you push 12-gauge wire into the contact retainer on the back of the device?

Are they not designed for the heavier gauge wire?

That is because many of the switches and outlets that can be bought are only rated for 15 amps (typically 14 ga wire).

There are many factors about why outlets won't let you use 12g wire in the push-in connects. First off they aren't really designed for it, as it can be trickier to design something that will provide acceptable performance with multiple sizes than it is to design for just one size.

More significantly is that according to just about every electrician I've talked to that was of the "Take pride in ones work" school, the push-in quick connect things are cheap and cheesy at best, and seriously dangerous at worst. In essence the push in connectors are intended as a low-bid solution to allow a contractor to wire a place as quickly as possible with as little attention paid to code as the inspectors would allow. A push in connection can be done in seconds, a proper screwed connection will take much longer. Given that, the idea of the push-in isn't really compatible with 12g wire, as an electrician that cares enough to use 12g isn't going to use a push in, so there's no demand for it.

(Note, I'm not a licensed electrician, but when I recently helped a friend wire an outside gazebo, the electrical inspector commented on how I consistently did the job better than code required.)

I haven't made a push-in connection in YEARS, and any time I open a box, if I find push-ins, I change them to screwdowns before I put the box back together, and after I screw the connections down, I tape around the outside of the outlet....

Our own "electrical horror story" in this house, supposedly built by pros, and inspected, etc. included multiple miswired outlets, and a 3 wire light circuit that drives 4 bulbs - two off each switch, with each switch getting it's own hot wire, apparently from a different circuit. That one I've had to keep the way it is just because there isn't a reasonable way to rewire it to be proper. We also had a plastic water main where municipal code calls for iron pipe, and a few other "interesting" features....

Gooserider

 

[kevinmoelk]

Nothing Wrench, all we can do is fix as we go. As you said the worst first, the rest down the line. Unfortunately we can't see most of this stuff till we start our own projects, then bamm.... 1 project just turned into 5 more automatically. I personally still love my house, hate all the work ahead of me, but its got to be done, and like you I A) I dont have the cash to shell out to someone. B) wouldn't let myself if I did C) can just plain do it right & cheaper in the process. Plus theres nothing better than a combo of learning something new & the feeling of accomplishment after finishing it the right way. I am finding the previous owner here, sabatoged some things before they left and I got in. Of all the ahole things I have done, I would never do that to someones family, I don't fear for me, its the woman & kids I worry about. Just ain't right. But hes in Arkansas now, nothing I can do. Just fix it and move on.
Just sucks spending a load on a house, only to find your spending more, and not just a lil, even DIY route.
Oh well, we love our homes, otherwise we wouldn't do what we do.

Couldn't have said it better myself Sir. LMAO at the bold above, so true, maybe not so funny come to think of it.

Still, if you are going to do something, then do it right, period, no exceptions. Particularly where the safety of yourself or of future occupants is concerned.

Did the previous owner really sabotage? Wow, that's a low blow, dirty.

I know how you feel about spending money on the house. I suspect you did that same thing I did and bought the home for the land, where it sits in relation to town, and the potential the home had. Many people lack the vision of what a home can be 10 years down the road. It takes guts to tackle a big project and dedication to see it through the end.

I looked at many houses before buying the one I have now, a lot of the "handyman specials" were not fixer uppers at all, many of them should have simply been bulldozed into the ground. It took a long time to find something that really could be fixed up and saved. Hats off to everyone of the DIYers on the forum who are fixing up old homes and saving them. Frankly, I can't imagine living in a cookie cutter sub division... as Homer Simpson said, "A gum drop house on lollipop lane." No offense to any of you McMansion owners (tongue in cheek).

-Kevin

 

[Gooserider]

I am a bit confused by your saying that you need Cat6 cable for your satellite - We do cable here, but my understanding was that satellite needed a special coax, not Cat6 Ethernet cable. Also they only need special wire between the antenna dish and the first converter box, after that it's supposed to be standard RG6quad for the video stuff and normal Cat5e for the computer stuff...

Gooserider

Your right it is RG6quad, the guy left me 25 extra feet worth, but don't think thats going to make it. And I want to keep the splices as least as possible due to signal degregation. I don't think I will be going with as many tv/video & phone outlets as you. But I will be adding some in my office & new bedroom. The main house is as it is. Not touching that for a while. at least until the addition is complete.

Ahhh... That makes more sense. I thought some satellites took fancier stuff than RG6quad, but I could be wrong, also I think it may depend on just what sort of satellite setup you are running, also double check as some may need more than one cable.

I have everything "home run" wired to a single patch board area in the basement (note that the networking hardware needs to be inside the "climate envelope" of the house) and figured that it was just as much effort to run six wires to a jack as it was to run one, which is one reason for the "over wire" - I anticipate that alot of my wires may never get used, but it is hard to predict which ones, so I just put them all in so I won't have to mess with them again.

As to the use of splices and such - I'm sure you know that they are all but forbidden in Ethernet wiring, and frowned on in modern telephone wiring. For CATV it isn't prohibited, but every junction has a signal loss associated with it, usually figured as 4dB unless another figure is given. This adds up real fast, so splices should be avoided.

The usual technique for terminating RG6quad at a wall plate is to put a male connector on the wire inside the wall, then use a female-female keystone plug in the plate, then another male-male cable from the plate to the attached equipment. There is a MUCH slicker solution though, I found it at Miles Tek. The tooling is somewhat expensive, but the connectors are less, and the results are MUCH better. These F-Conn snap-in modules terminate directly onto the cable, and snap into the wall plate. The compression style crimp is MUCH better than the usual round crimp, essentially it's what the commercially made cables use, and getting rid of that F-F adapter module means you have one less splice, saving 4dB signal loss on each end of the in wall cable. At the patch panel end, I got a couple of 24 port multi-hole plates that are the same form factor as a standard rack-mount Ethernet patch panel, and put the F-Conn modules into them so that I have a CATV "patch panel" that is very much like my Ethernet panel. For the telephone, I got a 300 pair punchdown panel (type 110, so I can use the same punchdown tool that I used on my Ethernet jacks and panel)

It's a huge bundle of wires I have coming out of the ceiling at that point, but it is a slick setup.

Gooserider

 

[Hogwildz]

Kind of off-topic, but why is it that many switches and outlets won't let you push 12-gauge wire into the contact retainer on the back of the device?

Are they not designed for the heavier gauge wire?

That is because many of the switches and outlets that can be bought are only rated for 15 amps (typically 14 ga wire).

There are many factors about why outlets won't let you use 12g wire in the push-in connects. First off they aren't really designed for it, as it can be trickier to design something that will provide acceptable performance with multiple sizes than it is to design for just one size.

More significantly is that according to just about every electrician I've talked to that was of the "Take pride in ones work" school, the push-in quick connect things are cheap and cheesy at best, and seriously dangerous at worst. In essence the push in connectors are intended as a low-bid solution to allow a contractor to wire a place as quickly as possible with as little attention paid to code as the inspectors would allow. A push in connection can be done in seconds, a proper screwed connection will take much longer. Given that, the idea of the push-in isn't really compatible with 12g wire, as an electrician that cares enough to use 12g isn't going to use a push in, so there's no demand for it.

(Note, I'm not a licensed electrician, but when I recently helped a friend wire an outside gazebo, the electrical inspector commented on how I consistently did the job better than code required.)

I haven't made a push-in connection in YEARS, and any time I open a box, if I find push-ins, I change them to screwdowns before I put the box back together, and after I screw the connections down, I tape around the outside of the outlet....

Our own "electrical horror story" in this house, supposedly built by pros, and inspected, etc. included multiple miswired outlets, and a 3 wire light circuit that drives 4 bulbs - two off each switch, with each switch getting it's own hot wire, apparently from a different circuit. That one I've had to keep the way it is just because there isn't a reasonable way to rewire it to be proper. We also had a plastic water main where municipal code calls for iron pipe, and a few other "interesting" features....

Gooserider

I did use the 20 amp outlets that don't push in the back, but do clamp on the sides under the screws. At least theres more than spring action holding it in.

 

[Hogwildz]

Well idf we don;t laugh we'll end up crying. I choose to laugh, less work
Yes I didn't realize it until I came across a few things aftwer the move in.
When we had the big flood last summer (declared disaster area). I am upo away from the river. Basement took on 5' of water, water heater, furnace, everything 5' down flooded. Basement has a drain, the water did eventually drain out. Theres a drain in the floor. I get the sump pump out to finish the big puddle off, push the hose into the floor drain. Hit a bog what feels like a rock and hose pushed it about 6' down the pipe. This drain has a grate over it. With 1/4" slots looks like. No rock going to just "fall" in there. I suspect he shoved it down there to partially stop up the drain pipe. Then I found one leak down there in side wall. A pc of 3/4" pvc stuck through side wall...."silicone" smooched up aropund it on the inside of wall, end capped off inside. water pouring in around it. I had not choice but to pull it out,...... it was connected to nothing! sealed it up with... Ubetcha urethane caulk. stuck the tip of the caulk gun into the hoselike stream and into the hole, about 6 or 8 pumps, sealed. Not a probelem ever since. Fixed about 4 other leaks in this basement that supposedly didn't ever leak. Found sh-t burried in the high brush which is not dead & low, in several spots around the property. Of which I must dipose of now. Found 30amp bereakers installed in 15 amp circuits. Just too many to list, and too many to be a coincidence. Previous owner sais the end of basement floor drain is out at bottom of hill on side of house. Been down there 5 times, found nothing. I think he burried it under some cinder blocks that are out there, or another object. Inspector inspected all outlets & everything. No I am finding them miswired, pulled out from behind the push ins. I can't say he did all this. The drain is a pretty suyspicious indicator though. That I won't let as chance happening. I must find the other end. Glue some 2" pvs (about50-70' worth) together. Push it up the outside end of the basement drain (3 " or 4"pvc) and try and push the rock or whatever it is back to the drain and try and grab it. But I have to find the outside end first. Going to wait til snow, pour some dyed hot water down that drain and look for steam & colored snow. I only fear he did not run it out the hillside and it stops underground in a drain pit. In that case, I'm f'ed. I'll knock a whole in the floor , put a 5 gallon bucket and put a sump pump in it if thats what I have to do. He didn't run "J" channel around some of the windows & doors, It rains and the water runs behind the siding and down to the basement plate and into the basement. This is a cedar shake look fiberglass/vinyl siding. Not like regular vinyl with weep holes. Alot of crap is what it all is. Told me the breezeway ceiling & walls were insulated. They aren't. Luckily I can do that as I have the framing exposed & the attic able to be gotten into now. Other stuff is fine, so I am lucky. Its not everything. The main house is insualted to the hilt. 6" walss full insualtaion with 1" foan behind the siding. Not a breeze to be felt. So It could be worse.
He'd be visiting the hospital if he didn't move away is all I can say. Thats just the neaderthal in me

Nothing Wrench, all we can do is fix as we go. As you said the worst first, the rest down the line. Unfortunately we can't see most of this stuff till we start our own projects, then bamm.... 1 project just turned into 5 more automatically. I personally still love my house, hate all the work ahead of me, but its got to be done, and like you I A) I dont have the cash to shell out to someone. B) wouldn't let myself if I did C) can just plain do it right & cheaper in the process. Plus theres nothing better than a combo of learning something new & the feeling of accomplishment after finishing it the right way. I am finding the previous owner here, sabatoged some things before they left and I got in. Of all the ahole things I have done, I would never do that to someones family, I don't fear for me, its the woman & kids I worry about. Just ain't right. But hes in Arkansas now, nothing I can do. Just fix it and move on.
Just sucks spending a load on a house, only to find your spending more, and not just a lil, even DIY route.
Oh well, we love our homes, otherwise we wouldn't do what we do.

Couldn't have said it better myself Sir. LMAO at the bold above, so true, maybe not so funny come to think of it.

Still, if you are going to do something, then do it right, period, no exceptions. Particularly where the safety of yourself or of future occupants is concerned.

Did the previous owner really sabotage? Wow, that's a low blow, dirty.

I know how you feel about spending money on the house. I suspect you did that same thing I did and bought the home for the land, where it sits in relation to town, and the potential the home had. Many people lack the vision of what a home can be 10 years down the road. It takes guts to tackle a big project and dedication to see it through the end.

I looked at many houses before buying the one I have now, a lot of the "handyman specials" were not fixer uppers at all, many of them should have simply been bulldozed into the ground. It took a long time to find something that really could be fixed up and saved. Hats off to everyone of the DIYers on the forum who are fixing up old homes and saving them. Frankly, I can't imagine living in a cookie cutter sub division... as Homer Simpson said, "A gum drop house on lollipop lane." No offense to any of you McMansion owners (tongue in cheek).

-Kevin

 

[Gooserider]

My GF bought the house before I met her. It hit the market as a result of a nasty divorce, when she bought it the ex-husband was living in it with a couple of large dogs (dobermans we think). Most of the problems I've found were clearly build time issues, nothing that he did. However as a minor amusment, the GF had the rugs shampooed before she moved in, discovered they were different colors than what she had thought....

The only nasty thing he did was to pull the plug on the sump pump before closing, left her with about 6" of water in the basement (so we know how bad it can get...) - fortuneately she did a walk-thru before the close, found it and got an adjustment on the price.

The other thing the guy did was give her address when he got a P.O. Box, and never change it. We discovered that when we started getting court summons nailed to the door a few years later - had to go through some hassles to get that cleared up, but not a big deal. (Filed an affadavit that the guy had moved to we knew not where, got the P.O. to remove our address from his box and close it until he filed a proper address....)

Gooserider

 

[Hogwildz]

My GF bought the house before I met her. It hit the market as a result of a nasty divorce, when she bought it the ex-husband was living in it with a couple of large dogs (dobermans we think). Most of the problems I've found were clearly build time issues, nothing that he did. However as a minor amusment, the GF had the rugs shampooed before she moved in, discovered they were different colors than what she had thought....

The only nasty thing he did was to pull the plug on the sump pump before closing, left her with about 6" of water in the basement (so we know how bad it can get...) - fortuneately she did a walk-thru before the close, found it and got an adjustment on the price.

The other thing the guy did was give her address when he got a P.O. Box, and never change it. We discovered that when we started getting court summons nailed to the door a few years later - had to go through some hassles to get that cleared up, but not a big deal. (Filed an affadavit that the guy had moved to we knew not where, got the P.O. to remove our address from his box and close it until he filed a proper address....)

Gooserider

Yeah it really stinks when you pay for a house, then pay for the bs from the previous owner, cause they either lost it due to something not even your fault, or do crap cause they sold at less than they wanted, but did so anyways. Then feel like you should pay somehow. Had I known I would have held tight at the few grand I offered lower. They already bought a farm in Arkansas, and had the mortgage co on this house all over them for cash. I prolly could have gotten it alot cheaper. But already got it 29k less than original list price. So still got a deal. Besides, I just love this place. the setting, the grounds. I am dying in this place, end of story LOL.