Compact Utility Tractors for Mowing

[bwise.157]

None of those tractors are going to pull a 900lb roller up a steep hill with turf tires more than likely. It's going to need R4's, which is going to bite into your grass and rip it up and cause ruts. There isn't going to be a ton of performance difference in that regard between the X504 and the 1025R... the kicker to the 1025R is going to be fuel consumption, the FEL, and the cat 0 ability.

You will see towing capacity difference between the two, but on flat land. Loading tires helps, but the 1025's tires are pretty small, so it would be indifferent for the most part. There isn't a huge price difference going to the 2032, but you do loose the TLB ability.

Do yourself a favor, and check out the Kioti CK2410, it's Kiotis' sub compact... it's a much beefier subcompact than a 1025... though it doesn't have the quick disconnect.

I have never heard of Kioto, but I do have a dealer within 30 minutes. I sent them an inquiry and will check it out.

Do you have one? If so, likes/dislikes?

Thanks!

 

[EJP1234]

Yes, I have a Kioti CK30HST TLB... I do not have a CS2410. I just know from looking at the spec's, it's a bit beefier than the previous ones you mentioned.

I am in love with my CK30HST, it hasn't left me hangining, and it does way more than i needed.

 

[Ashful]

I have a very hilly property (we back up to a small ski resort), and I bought a Deere 855 CUT with a 72" deck and a Deere 757 ZTrak with a 60" deck. The 757 cuts more than 2x faster than the 855, even with the smaller deck, is more agile around trees and landscaping, and has a pedal lift for quickly lifting deck over bumps. I wouldn't even consider using a CUT for mowing, unless the property was muddy.

As to hills, I think you'd have to be mowing in the rain, to get my 757 stuck at the bottom of a hill. I mow several hills, and a steep drainage swale, no problem.

 

[rkusek]

Went to both a Deere and Kubota dealer today. Looked at the 1025r and the BX2370. Definitely liked the Deere more. Price was actually the same for those two units, with a landscape rake thrown in from Deere. Kubota was just the tractor and deck. Haven't made the purchase yet, but will probably do this coming week.

My parents have an x540 with locking differential, which I thought would be enough to pull my roller and handle the hills. It is a very nice machine. If it worked, I was going to see about getting one. Unfortunately, I tried it today, and it struggled. The roller weighs about 900 lbs. Couldn't pull it up the hill, even with weight added to the tractor. Just mowing, does great, but I want something that will do everything. This will be a purchase that will last me the next 20 years, so I don't want something that only does some of what I need. I normally don't splurge, but I might have to this time!

amen on the yanmar diesel engines. I started with a '87 318 in 2008 when building our home on 2.5 acres. Found a '87 332 diesel with 1200 hrs. in 2011 and it burns about 1/2 the fuel of the 318. That might be the best JD mower ever built. I want to get it painted this winter. Since I really needed a loader and the options for these old tractors were just too expensive I ended up getting a 1026r 2 years ago. 60" drive over deck and quick release loader. 8 suitcase weights and jd I match weight bracket. Brother in law next door has about 12 yr old BX 2200. While his back tires are huge (60 gals to fill both) the loader and bucket are seem quite a bit smaller than mine. He put tubes and fluid in my 1026 and I think it was about 1/2 that. I think both make good machines but if you are a Deere man you be happier with green. I don't like my plastic hood but the thin metal ones on the new Kubotas might actually be easier to damage. He replaced bearings and seals in his deck gear box last year noticing the gears were very worn too. Unfortunately, the gears must be proprietary and whole thing sold as an assembly for 600 bucks. It shelled out for him and will take 3 weeks to get a new one. Repairs can happen to any brand and this may be due to neglect since it was almost 10 yrs old when he got it.
I have steep inclines and already have put the 1026 on its side using loader where I shouldn't have been. Fortunately only broke a $38 light on back. BIL and Kubota able pull it right back over with a chain not even scratching any paint. I know keep weight bracket close to ground, have tires filled, and am much more careful. FIL also next door has new Grasshopper z turn but I'm not convinced I would like it on steep slopes either especially if grass a little wet. He fluid filled the rears and added weight to the front and likes it now but I would never let my wife or kids mow here with it. If you are strickly looking to mow on slopes and already have loader/ 3 point tractor I think the lawn tractor might be best. I wanted the 749se but like you have said the scut is only a couple grand more and more capable.

 

[rkusek]

also 60" is too big. I should have went 54". Also get R4 tires.

 

[Highbeam]

I have never heard of Kioto, but I do have a dealer within 30 minutes. I sent them an inquiry and will check it out.

Do you have one? If so, likes/dislikes?

Thanks!

I too own a Kioti CK30 with over 1200 hours on it by me. It hasn't let me down. This is a CUT and not a subcompact like most of the models quoted. We get too many people calling riding lawn mowers "tractors" and then those SCUTs being called CUTs.

Earlier someone mentioned being able to run 60" brush hog with an SCUT. Sure it's possible but it's probably not going to work because the little SCUTs have category0 three point hitch hardware that won't fit the 60" hog made with cat1 3ph hardware. The hog is made for cat1 hardware because a 60" hog will weigh nearly 1000# and need 30hp and that's high for an SCUT.

 

[DougA]

Part of the problem will rough/hilly terrain is that half the time you are driving downhill and that is actually much more dangerous than uphill. That's part of the reason I chose a 4x4 with high/low and hydra drive. Even with 4x4 on high and just using the mmm deck, I can easily get into a dangerous slip going down my hills. Once it loses traction, you are in for a ride and the only hope is steering it to safety. If I put it in low, everything is good.

I once had a guy here delivering sod with a 3 wheeler. He lost traction on the hill and stupidly gave it more juice which totally turned his tires into slicks. He jumped half way down the hill and wasn't injured. There is no way I would ever drive a zero turn up or down my hills, with wet or dry grass

 

[maple1]

Half of my bad hills, I need to do across the hill. Sidehill style. So not always either up or down. I do those hanging one cheek (sometimes part of the other one too) off the side of the seat with my hand on the seat so the safety switch won't cut out. It's those situations that make me leery of bigger stuff that has a higher CoG. Also seem to have a fair amount of obstacles to mow around which is also a pain.

 

[DougA]

Half of my bad hills, I need to do across the hill. Sidehill style.

I do that sometimes too but not on the really steep ones. Just too much risk of a roll over IMHO. I would rather go on a wild ride than a roll over. The exception to that is if you are towing a heavy load. Pulling a heavy trailer up, down or sideways is incredibly dangerous. Someone died near here last year when the hay wagon jackknifed on top of him.

In our area, the most dangerous part of mowing is near a pond. Every property nearby has at least one pond. Almost every year we have someone near us that has one wheel of their tractor slide off into the pond and the tractor goes in, then rolls on top of the operator. Real tragic. I've winched mine out of the edge when one wheel goes over when the edge crumbles. The hydra drive and quick wits saved me. Lift your foot and it stops dead.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

IMO, the Massey Ferguson GC1700 series is the best unit on the market in the SCUT category. I have a GC2400, the predecessor, and love it. I mow my 1.5 acres with the 60" MMM (mid mount mower) and its cuts very well. It replaced a JD X534. While it can't match the maneuverability of the 4 wheel steer, I haven't really had any problems making adjustments in my cutting pattern. The deck cuts considerably better that the JD IME. It doesn't stripe, but it doesn't miss a single blade of grass either. The engines are silky smooth, mine operates at 2600 rpm, vs 3000, and 3200 on the JD and kubota models. I found the hydro whine on the other machines to be much louder as well. On the Massey, you'll get full power on the front end loader at idle. I don't think you can even move the loader on the Kubota BX series at idle. I really didn't like the operator platform on the JD1025 that I tested, felt really tight. Kubota was good, Mssey was the most comfortable for me.

Over all, I think JD, kubota, and Massey make quality/capable machines, but I think Massey Ferguson has the best machine in this category.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Earlier someone mentioned being able to run 60" brush hog with an SCUT. Sure it's possible but it's probably not going to work because the little SCUTs have category0 three point hitch hardware that won't fit the 60" hog made with cat1 3ph hardware. The hog is made for cat1 hardware because a 60" hog will weigh nearly 1000# and need 30hp and that's high for an SCUT.

I believe this is not quite correct. All of the SCUTs out there today have what they call "Limited Cat 1" 3 point hitches. They have cat 1 connecting hardware, but are limited in lift height. This is a problem for things like post hole diggers, which are pretty tall. I've seen 60" brush hogs down in the 6-700 lbs, which is certainly with the lifting capacity of my machine. Its the horsepower that prevents you from running a big brushhog or similar implement. In the SCUT category, you'll have less than 20 HP at the PTO, which is really only about enough for a 4' brush hog. Yes, you can run a larger one, but you'll have to go awfully slow, and not cut through really thick stuff.

 

[Highbeam]

I believe this is not quite correct. All of the SCUTs out there today have what they call "Limited Cat 1" 3 point hitches. They have cat 1 connecting hardware, but are limited in lift height. This is a problem for things like post hole diggers, which are pretty tall. I've seen 60" brush hogs down in the 6-700 lbs, which is certainly with the lifting capacity of my machine. Its the horsepower that prevents you from running a big brushhog or similar implement. In the SCUT category, you'll have less than 20 HP at the PTO, which is really only about enough for a 4' brush hog. Yes, you can run a larger one, but you'll have to go awfully slow, and not cut through really thick stuff.

You're right. I just checked and now even the legendary BX23 has a cat1 3ph. Yes, you'll be limited in lift height and weight and of course HP but you should be able to at least move the brush mower.

Good move by Kubota (maybe others too) having that stupid cat0 3ph really limited their usefulness.

 

[Midway43]

I have a BX2370 with front end loader and 60mmm. I am very happy. Does good cutting. I used to use a Deere 425 with 54inch deck.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Forgot to mention, my experience is that the HDAP (heavy duty all purpose) tires that JD uses on some of the X500 and X700 machines is just about the best traction you can get on grass, better than the standard turf tire. I believe the size use on the JDX7xx machines is the same size tires used on most SCUTs. They have a lower weight rating than is required by SCUTs because they are made to handle loaders and heavy 3pt equipment. BUT, if you just wanted a MMM, you can change over.

A SCUT, in low gear, 4 wheel drive, with HDAPs, some wheel spacers, and loaded tires would make a mean mower!

 

[Ashful]

I believe this is not quite correct. All of the SCUTs out there today have what they call "Limited Cat 1" 3 point hitches. They have cat 1 connecting hardware, but are limited in lift height. This is a problem for things like post hole diggers, which are pretty tall. I've seen 60" brush hogs down in the 6-700 lbs, which is certainly with the lifting capacity of my machine.

Maybe at the pintels. I haven't seen an SCUT that can lift 700 lb. with COG at 50" off the pintels, which is where a 60" brush hog is going to be. They make bigger CUT's for a reason.

PS - just looked it up. Your tractor can lift 550 lb. at 24". That ain't gonna move a 60" brush hog.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Maybe at the pintels. I haven't seen an SCUT that can lift 700 lb. with COG at 50" off the pintels, which is where a 60" brush hog is going to be. They make bigger CUT's for a reason.

I haven't done the math, but my machine is rated for 1190 lbs at the link ends.....seems like 6-700 lbs further back might be within its lift range. Still don't have enough HP to run it though....

 

[Ashful]

I haven't done the math, but my machine is rated for 1190 lbs at 24" behind the link ends.....seems like 6-700 lbs further back might be within its lift range. Still don't have enough HP to run it though....

The spec I'm looking at says 1190 lb. at the pintel ends, 550 lb. at 24". I've watched machines much bigger than yours struggle with 54" brush hogs, no way you're running a 60" on a MF 2400.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Never said you would run it...simply hypothesizing that you could move it....

 

[renewablejohn]

Dont know whether you have Holder tractors in the US but there very good on hills originally built for steep vin yards in Europe. 4WD and pivot steer for tight turning.

 

[bwise.157]

amen on the yanmar diesel engines. I started with a '87 318 in 2008 when building our home on 2.5 acres. Found a '87 332 diesel with 1200 hrs. in 2011 and it burns about 1/2 the fuel of the 318. That might be the best JD mower ever built. I want to get it painted this winter. Since I really needed a loader and the options for these old tractors were just too expensive I ended up getting a 1026r 2 years ago. 60" drive over deck and quick release loader. 8 suitcase weights and jd I match weight bracket. Brother in law next door has about 12 yr old BX 2200. While his back tires are huge (60 gals to fill both) the loader and bucket are seem quite a bit smaller than mine. He put tubes and fluid in my 1026 and I think it was about 1/2 that. I think both make good machines but if you are a Deere man you be happier with green. I don't like my plastic hood but the thin metal ones on the new Kubotas might actually be easier to damage. He replaced bearings and seals in his deck gear box last year noticing the gears were very worn too. Unfortunately, the gears must be proprietary and whole thing sold as an assembly for 600 bucks. It shelled out for him and will take 3 weeks to get a new one. Repairs can happen to any brand and this may be due to neglect since it was almost 10 yrs old when he got it.
I have steep inclines and already have put the 1026 on its side using loader where I shouldn't have been. Fortunately only broke a $38 light on back. BIL and Kubota able pull it right back over with a chain not even scratching any paint. I know keep weight bracket close to ground, have tires filled, and am much more careful. FIL also next door has new Grasshopper z turn but I'm not convinced I would like it on steep slopes either especially if grass a little wet. He fluid filled the rears and added weight to the front and likes it now but I would never let my wife or kids mow here with it. If you are strickly looking to mow on slopes and already have loader/ 3 point tractor I think the lawn tractor might be best. I wanted the 749se but like you have said the scut is only a couple grand more and more capable.

Amazingly, the price quote for the 1025r was only $300 more than the x758, and I get a landscape rake included with the 1025r in the current Deere special of a $500 discount if you get two implements. Mower Deck is one, and landscape rake is the second. The dealer knocked a little off the rake, and it is now free.

My dealer only sells the 1025r with the r4 tires. I would have to special order if I wanted turf tires (which I don't want). I actually would love to get the HADP tires, but they aren't available for that model from the dealer. I will have to check into getting them from other sources.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

I actually would love to get the HADP tires, but they aren't available for that model from the dealer. I will have to check into getting them from other sources.

HDAP's won't be an option for the JD 1023/25 because they don't have the necessary weight capacity. You'll need to buy them separately, and have them changed out. Many dealer won't do that for you, because it becomes a warranty issue. If the dealer does it, and you have a blow out, they are "sort of" responsible. Can probably find them cheaper outside of a JD dealer anyway!

 

[Highbeam]

Never said you would run it...simply hypothesizing that you could move it....

Just to move it you could also leave the top link off so that the rear wheel stays on the ground. That way you're not lifting the whole thing. I dropped a 750# brush hog on my finger and turned it to bone soup, looks weird now. Those buggers are heavy and when I lift it with my tractor the back tires squat some since the weight is way back there and transfers load from the front axle.

 

[bwise.157]

Thanks to everyone that provided input on this topic! I know it doesn't necessarily fit as a hearth.com topic, but figured this would be a good source of knowledge.

I placed the order today for a JD 1025r, with 54" mid mount mower and a landscape rake. Everything will be ready in about two weeks. Can't wait to try it out!

Again, thanks everyone!

 

[KenLockett]

Let me know how it handles on the hills when you get it. I am in your exact situation in that I have extreme hills on approximately 2.5 to 3 acres (that I like to keep well manicured) if you don't count the meadows and paddock areas that have grown up that I'd like to brush hog as well. Also want to use the SCUT to move firewood that has been split at my barn up a hill to the drying paddocks for stacking then back down in the fall for storage (when dry of course). If I invest that kind of money want to be absolutely sure it can mow comfortably but still have the power to move loads like an actual tractor (sub-compact albeit). Hate the Craftsman 26HP with 54" deck I have. Trying to mow the overgrown paddock the other day and just struggled continuously. Great thread by the way.

 

[Ashful]

The most frequent mistake I see among homeowners with large lots shopping tractors, is buying too small. Too many going SCUT's (and incorrectly calling them CUT's), when they should be buying real CUT's, for the jobs at hand.