I've been watching the Lowes clearance prices on the Englander stoves to replace my VC but I have some questions on the model 12 and 13. They both look the same size and the dimensions on the web site verify that but englander lists the 12 as 1.9+ cu. ft. box, the 13 is 1.8 cu. ft.. However the 13 is rated as heating 1800 sq ft. the 12 as 1000 sq ft. Also, why does the 12 have a flue damper the 13 none? Thanks!
Confusion w/Englander stove types
- Thread starter bsa0021
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The model 12 is not an EPA approved stove and is not qualified for the tax credit. Go for the 13NC.
summit
Minister of Fire
FireAnt
Minister of Fire
cmonSTART
Minister of Fire
I had my eye set on the 13 but I was curious about the 12 since Lowes has 4- 12s left and 1-13. I didn't realize the 12 wasn't an EPA stove. Prices are still too high (599) but getting tempting. HD in my area doesn't seem to carry any stoves anymore. They must not be able to move them. Have not seen any 30s this year but that's probably too big anyway for my sunroom.cmonSTART said:
Why does Englander bother with the 12? I can see them maybe selling a non-EPA model or two, but if they did I would think it would be something significantly different than their other offerings.
Big Al
New Member
tickbitty said:
I've often wondered the same thing. I mean, I own a 12 and I couldn't be happier with it. It does what I need it to do and I've learned to operate it so it's MUCH more efficient. But in all honesty at only $100 more for the 13 and the tax credit, it's a no brainer. Given EPA vs non EPA I would think there would be more of a price spread.
As for the second half of your question, it may just be easier to offer the 12 based on the 13 for tooling cost savings. Lots of parts interchange...heat shields, blowers, optional trim, legs, pedestals etc.
I think the reason for the 1.9 cu ft in the 12 vs. the 1.8 firebox size in the 13 is that the 13 has some space taken up by some air passages on the floor of the stove, just inside the door whereas the 12 is wide open in this area. Also, the secondary air tubes might limit the amount of wood you can put in, though Englander recommends not stacking the wood any higher than the bricks anyway. Why is that Btw?
SlyFerret
Minister of Fire
Stacking only as high as the firebrick leaves a few inches of room between the wood and the secondary burn tubes.
My stove actually does seem to burn a little better that way. I think it is because there is nothing blocking the air circulation in the upper portion of the firebox. The air injected from the burn tubes can circulate properly to create the most active secondary combustion possible.
Give it a shot. When you see that rolling secondary burn filling that entire space at the top of the stove, you'll see what I mean.
-SF
My stove actually does seem to burn a little better that way. I think it is because there is nothing blocking the air circulation in the upper portion of the firebox. The air injected from the burn tubes can circulate properly to create the most active secondary combustion possible.
Give it a shot. When you see that rolling secondary burn filling that entire space at the top of the stove, you'll see what I mean.
-SF
Does that mean the 13 firebox usable space is actually less than 1.8 cu ft.? I know it doesn't seem to matter if I stack past the bricks on my PE insert but maybe the baffle design doesn't create as much of an issue. If anything I could use less agressive secondaries when burning hard wood on the PE.SlyFerret said:
Big Al
New Member
bsa0021 said:
No, I think they take that into account. Both the 12 and the 13 manuals say not to stack past the bricks "to avoid over firing" and so that "air is allowed to circulate to all areas of the fire box".
I can fit plenty of wood in my 12. I do admit I go a little over the bricks but I keep an eye on the temps and never let it rage when I'm not home. I do notice that it takes some careful stacking and split selection to max out the capacity. With the shallow firebox and EW only loading, it also helps to be aware of wood placement to prevent wood slidng forward into the glass. Hate it when that happens. I usually make sure the peices on top most prone to sliding have one end behind front wall of the stove where the door opening is. I heard that the glass is pretty tough but I don't need that disaster in the middle of the night.
I bought my nc13 last year at Lowes for 25% off making it $599. About 2 or 3 weeks later they advertised 50% off and I went back and got it for $399 (otd $433). My total DIY install came to $1000 and except for the telescoping DW pipe I got everything at Lowes. I also got the blower for about $27 there too.
Big Al
New Member
dante2 said:
Man, you scored big
I bought my 12 in Dec 08, when oil prices were just starting to come down from the insanity level, so I payed full pop. I noticed Lowes is discounting their stoves here now too. I saw the big 30NC there selling for under a grand! Home Depot seems to be holding firm on their prices though.- Status
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