Considering a Keystone or Tribute

[glennm]

Hi All:

I'm hoping someone has some experience with either/both of these stoves?

A little background info. I have two stoves in my house, a new VC Montpellier insert that I installed last year. I had an old airtight insert for a long time, the Montpellier gives me such a great view of the fire that I have considered changing the other stove ( older airtight something like a fisher). That stove is a corner installation in a family room. We spend most of our evenings in there and usually just put a small fire on to take the chill off -- let the Montpellier do most of the heating. What I really would like to do is have a stove in there that gives me a great show, the airtight has a cast door and there is nothing to look at.

The room is small and I think I would like a soapstone stove to moderate the heat and allow me to burn a longer fire without overheating the room -- the room has a double door on it so the heat can escape to the rest of the house as long as the stove is not burning really hot.

Now, the stove choice?? I have a dealer close by that has a Hearthstone tribute on sale -- the stove looks very small to me and I haven't really seen a lot of discussion on that one. I like the looks of it, it has a front load that may work well for me since this is a corner install.

The Woodstock Keystone also really appeals to me, I am concerned about side loading with the corner installation. I did tape it out on the hearth and looks like there should be a reasonable amount of room to put wood in from the side. I have a few questions about this stove. Is the glass hard to clean and does it get very dirty? (I have well seasoned wood) Is the EW burning with the side load something that you guys like? Does the stove look larger than the Tribute? Do you get the same show from the firebox with a cat stove as you do from other EPA stoves?

I am concerned about placing the order since I live in Canada and have to get the stove shipped to me. Moving a 500 pound stove into place may be a bit tricky. I guess I have to decided before the sale is over.

Thoughts???

Thanks in advance
Glenn

 

[jeff_t]

The Keystone is also currently sale priced. There's a few very happy Keystone burners around here, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy anything Woodstock if it fit my needs. Being able to cut the cat stove back and still get a clean burn is a good thing in a smaller room.
I've never seen a Keystone in person, but I will agree that the Tribute seemed ridiculously small to me.

 

[KevinG]

The Woodstock Keystone also really appeals to me... Is the EW burning with the side load something that you guys like? Do you get the same show from the firebox with a cat stove as you do from other EPA stoves?

I have a Fireview by Woodstock (same company that makes the Keystone). The Fireview is also a cat stove and loaded from the side. We've become used to loading from the side. We never have to worry about logs rolling out. If the logs go in, they stay in!

The light show is optional. Once the cat is going, you can dial the draft back so far there is very little fire, just red-hot coals with a whisper of flame. Or you can open it up a bit and enjoy a lazy light show that, with dry oak, lasts for hours.

Here's a good example of a Keystone's light show.

 

[Todd]

I think the Keystone is a little larger than the Tribute but I also think it would be more controllable in heat output because of the cat. The side loading door swings out about 10" so you may want to consider that in your corner install and it will probably sit out further from the wall that the tribute because of the larger rear clearance but you also only need 8" out front instead of 16" for the Tribute. I have great looking fires with my Keystone's so there is no problem there. You can fully load this stove up for a long 12 hour burn or load it with half loads for a quick hot take the chill off fire, very versatile stove. The ash pan is also very nice feature. Woodstock only has 1 week left on their sale prices so you may want to jump on it quick if you decide to go with the Keystone.

 

[Woody Stover]

Glass stays fairly clean on my Keystone, just a bit in the lower corners which doesn't interfere with the view. You'll read on the forum that if you burn a hot fire occasionally, any soot on the glass will clear right up. I'm seeing clearer glass now than I did last fall, when my wood wasn't as dry as the stuff I'm burning now. When I clean the glass (which I may not be doing now for a long time) I remove the two bolts that hold the andirons on, to make it easy. Obviously it would be easier to clean glass on a door, but it's not a big deal at all. I use a 50/50 vinegar/water solution.
I'm new to this stove but I think I may be falling in love. It throws a very nice radiant heat. I like the E/W burn; It's like looking at a fireplace. I haven't seen a non-cat stove light show much, only what I've seen at the stove shop the other day in a Lopi Liberty. I've seen very cool burn patterns out of my stove though. I love the "ribbon burn," a sheet of flame 4-6" wide across the top of the glass that undulates like a flag in a gentle breeze.
:coolsmile:

 

[Battenkiller]

I have a dealer close by that has a Hearthstone tribute on sale -- the stove looks very small to me and I haven't really seen a lot of discussion on that one. I like the looks of it, it has a front load that may work well for me since this is a corner install.

A member by the name of "Gyrfalcon" has been heating her entire house for a couple years using a Tribute. I find it fascinating that she can get that much heat out of such a small firebox, but she does it using good, seasoned, high-BTU wood like blue beech and black birch, obvious skill... and lots of feedings.

She may respond to this post, but you can also do a search for her screen name and send her a PM about the stove. I think it is a very attractive little stove, and I may actually get one myself for the family room once I get into my new digs.

 

[jonwright]

I have a Tribute. When they say 5 hrs. max burn time, Hearthstone isn't kidding. I like the looks, and for a weekend or smaller area stove it's fine. It's very difficult to keep an overnight burn with enough coals for a fire the next morning. I do like how it puts out gentle heat, and the small footprint. It serves as a stove for the kitchen/dining area now that we've completed our house renovation (last season when installed it was responsible for heating the entire house). I COULD keep the house pretty warm with 1,000 of lofted space, but it required frequent fillings, and my wife going to bed late, filling the woodbox, and I getting up extra early and emptying the ash and starting another fire (IF I had coals left over). Takes a little over an hour for it to put out nice heat so I'd have to baby-sit the stove at 4AM so that the house would be warm when the fam got stirring at 6.

The previous stove I had (Buck 26?) was just too big for the space and I didn't even fire it up until it was near 30 at night and less than 50 during the day (DEAD winter here in Arkansas). Even then the loft would be 8o degrees and we were opening windows once I got it going well.

It looks great and doesn't overpower our living space. The small firebox also seems to really limit the wood you can reasonably put in there. 12" is really the length you need to use and you really need to split the wood down to 3" or so size so that you can arrange the "logs" to not overfill the firebox and choke the fire. Once ashes are above 4-5" the stove just won't work anymore, which translated to almost daily cleanings for me when it was the primary stove.

The Tribute is Just Right for the heat. When it's rockin' it's just right for my space - and I can burn it during spring and Fall which actually has translated to reduced heating bills since I can burn wood longer during the season year.

All in all I'd buy it again, as my local dealer wanted another $1k or so for the next size up. Sometimes I think the nature of the soap stone is in conflict the the actual reasonable use of the small firebox (quick, hot fires to occasionally heat a smaller space). But it looks so nice it's worth the trade-off for a seemingly slower warm up time for me.

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

We also use the Tribute as a major heat source in our house.
We had a limited hearth area to work with, so for us it was a
perfect fit. Its firebox may seem a bit small, but we have no
problem filling it and having a warm firebox in the morning.
Realistically, you could expect about 3-4 hrs. between loads using
harder woods. Once it warms up, it throws off a nice, gentle heat
that last long after the fire is gone. It also has a nice viewing window for its size.

On the other hand, it is a smaller unit, and you will get shorter burn times.
Also, because it has shorter legs, you will need beefed-up hearth protection
underneath the unit.

Hope my input helps....

 

[gyrfalcon]

A member by the name of "Gyrfalcon" has been heating her entire house for a couple years using a Tribute. I find it fascinating that she can get that much heat out of such a small firebox, but she does it using good, seasoned, high-BTU wood like blue beech and black birch, obvious skill... and lots of feedings.

Gyrfalcon here. Thanks for the kind words, BK. Everything I know I've learned from the folks here and a lot of trial and error. What's that saying about necessity being the mother of invention? It's also the mother of fast learning.

To say that I heat my whole house with the Tribute is a bit of a stretch. Let's say I keep my whole house from freezing.

But it is my primary heating source. Here are the caveats.

My 2nd floor is unheated and I've blocked off the stairwell with heavy blankets to keep the stove heat from going up there and hanging around uselessly near the ceiling. My 2nd floor is COLD in the winter. I'd guess it's somewhere in the low 40s up there at night, which is fine with me. I am not able to use those rooms for anything other than sleeping, though.

My kitchen, bathroom (1st floor) and office are chilly. I also use space heaters there to warm things up when I need to. (my house has a big front room across the front and a more or less open plan, 8foot ceilings, and the stove is near one end of the room.)

The little stove does not burn long enough to go overnight, not even close. I have the thermostat for the basement boiler set to come on at 55, which it does pretty much every night for some hours during the coldest months of winter. If I've done it right, I usually have enough small hot coals in the AM to coax a fire back to life using small kindling, mostly splitting scraps. My brain does not function well enough to properly reload if I try to get up in the middle of the night, so that extra expense is just something I have to live with.

It does take a while to get real heat out of it, but when it's 55 in the house, every 1 degree warmer feels wonderful, so I don't mind.

The biggest drawback to this stove, as with all very small stoves, is the short burn cycle and therefore the nearly constant monitoring and tending. The margin for error is quite small, so if you miss the 10 or 15 minute time window for a good reload, you've got to struggle for a while to get things going right again.

Fuel selection in this stove is a huge issue. A big Equinox full of ash or red maple will give you all the heat you need. Not so with the little Tribute. To get more than 300 degrees out of it (and 300 degrees in such a small stove doesn't heat much space), I've learned I have to have high-BTU wood, like beech or black birch, split fairly small, 4 inches max. Even rock maple and oak don't get me much past 350.

All that said, I really like this stove. With a good chimney and draft and dry wood (absolutely critical), it burns like a champ. It's easey-peasey to get started and gives off that soft soapstone heat I absolutely love.

Re the short legs-- maybe my model is different than the poster's above, but I can put my hand under the stove and/or on the legs themselves when it's been going full blast all day and it's no more than warm. When my cats were kittens, I had to haul them out from underneath there on more than one occasion.

So that's the story on the Tribute. If you're only using it to heat a fairly small space, I'd say go for it, as long as you understand the consequences of that short burn cycle. It's a non-cat with a big glass window that stays clean with good wood and it's just handsome as heck, so a pleasure to watch.

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

Re the short legs-- maybe my model is different than the poster's above, but I can put my hand under the stove and/or on the legs themselves when it's been going full blast all day and it's no more than warm. When my cats were kittens, I had to haul them out from underneath there on more than one occasion.

I'd like to see a picture of your stove....ours can definitely get a bit hot underneath, and it would be difficult for
a cat to get underneath. What year is your Tribute??

 

[gyrfalcon]

Re the short legs-- maybe my model is different than the poster's above, but I can put my hand under the stove and/or on the legs themselves when it's been going full blast all day and it's no more than warm. When my cats were kittens, I had to haul them out from underneath there on more than one occasion.

I'd like to see a picture of your stove....ours can definitely get a bit hot underneath, and it would be difficult for
a cat to get underneath. What year is your Tribute??

The bottom is about 5 inches off the floor/hearth. Too small for a full-grown cat but more than enough room for a small kitten. I got this stove secondhand, but I believe it was originally bought in 2004. It was on sale at the time, so may have been an even older model.

 

[leeave96]

Without a doubt, the Keystone will give you a GREAT fireplace look when burning. Logs rolled up against the andirons with lazy flames rolling off them is as good as it gets when enjoying a woodstove burn for me. The Keystone has a huge glass and the cat is visible from it - so you can see what's going on there too. This stove is VERY easy to burn and control. It has a great ash pan set-up and is top or rear vent. A heat sheld is available to reduce clearances to combustables too.

You will get a super clean burn, wide range of temperature outputs, especially low temp/shoulder season capability without having to keep your windows open to cool things down.

In the middle of July, the Keystone looks great too.

If you are going to buy a Keystone - now is the time while they are on sale.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

The biggest drawback to this stove, as with all very small stoves, is the short burn cycle and therefore the nearly constant monitoring and tending. The margin for error is quite small, so if you miss the 10 or 15 minute time window for a good reload, you've got to struggle for a while to get things going right again.

Have you tried cutting your wood "short" (~9") so you can get N/S burns in your Tribute?
We've found it to make a world of difference in the performance of our burns.
More wood in firebox, better airflow & combustion, along with longer coaling times.
The wood also dries a lot faster.

 

[gyrfalcon]

The biggest drawback to this stove, as with all very small stoves, is the short burn cycle and therefore the nearly constant monitoring and tending. The margin for error is quite small, so if you miss the 10 or 15 minute time window for a good reload, you've got to struggle for a while to get things going right again.

Have you tried cutting your wood "short" (~9") so you can get N/S burns in your Tribute?
We've found it to make a world of difference in the performance of our burns.
More wood in firebox, better airflow & combustion, along with longer coaling times.
The wood also dries a lot faster.

You're totally right, but it's A LOT of extra work, and something I'd have to pay somebody to do since I'm not myself chainsaw-competent. (Not to mention it's really hard to stack stuff that short so it's stable, especially on my non-level property)

I do, however, always end up anyway with a good collection of end pieces and shorter stuff which I set aside for north-south loading on really cold nights, particularly those super-duper double-digit below zero mid-winter nights. (If I had a lot of short straight apple that size, I might actually even be able to overfire this baby, something I've never come within miles of doing.)

I don't know why the stove manufacturers don't put the primary air on the side with these front-loading stoves, especially the really small ones. Is there any practical reason you can think of why they don't? Sure would make life easier.

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

I don't know why the stove manufacturers don't put the primary air on the side with these front-loading stoves, especially the really small ones. Is there any practical reason you can think of why they don't? Sure would make life easier.

I know primary air in the front helps with air wash on the glass. Also, introduction of air to the front is conducive
with the natural path of combustion exhaust on most stoves, which is important when you are trying to get a stove
up to temperature. Once you're there, air can come from less direct locations, along with less of it, and still keep
the fire rolling.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I don't know why the stove manufacturers don't put the primary air on the side with these front-loading stoves, especially the really small ones. Is there any practical reason you can think of why they don't? Sure would make life easier.

I know primary air in the front helps with air wash on the glass. Also, introduction of air to the front is conducive
with the natural path of combustion exhaust on most stoves, which is important when you are trying to get a stove
up to temperature. Once you're there, air can come from less direct locations, along with less of it, and still keep
the fire rolling.

Makes sense. But I think somebody could tweak the design for a small stove that would make it a little easier to get the most out of it. I remain grumpy as hell about the fact that Hearthstone says this stove takes 16-inch wood, when it doesn't unless you're only putting a couple of sticks in it at a time.

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

I don't know why the stove manufacturers don't put the primary air on the side with these front-loading stoves, especially the really small ones. Is there any practical reason you can think of why they don't? Sure would make life easier.

I know primary air in the front helps with air wash on the glass. Also, introduction of air to the front is conducive
with the natural path of combustion exhaust on most stoves, which is important when you are trying to get a stove
up to temperature. Once you're there, air can come from less direct locations, along with less of it, and still keep
the fire rolling.

Makes sense. But I think somebody could tweak the design for a small stove that would make it a little easier to get the most out of it. I remain grumpy as hell about the fact that Hearthstone says this stove takes 16-inch wood, when it doesn't unless you're only putting a couple of sticks in it at a time.

The documentation probably should say "16 inch sticks".

 

[jonwright]

Do you guys have the heat shield and blower? If so, did you run the stove without them for a while?

 

[gyrfalcon]

Do you guys have the heat shield and blower? If so, did you run the stove without them for a while?

Which guys? Don't know what you're responding to.

 

[jonwright]

Sorry - you kids with the Tribute!

Wasn't that obvious? :D

 

[gyrfalcon]

Sorry - you kids with the Tribute!

Wasn't that obvious? :D

If it were obvious, I wouldn't have asked. Duh.

There's no blower for the Tribute that I'm aware of, and the heat shield is a back heat shield. So your question doesn't seem to apply to the Tribute. If there is a blower, it wouldn't make much sense to use since the stove is so tiny and soapstone doesn't reach the high temps of metal stoves, so there's really no heat to spare unless you're running it in a closet.

 

[jonwright]

There is a blower available for the Tribute:

Convection Blower: 8021/8040 P/N: 90-57210

I was attempting to be a bit self deprecating and a bit sarcastic with my "obvious" comment - hence the smiley. Didn't intend to offend.

But you've rather seemed to confirm what my thoughts were since I have to work really hard to keep that stove nice and hot. I was wondering if anyone was having better luck and with less effort that I.

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

There is a blower available for the Tribute:

Convection Blower: 8021/8040 P/N: 90-57210

I was attempting to be a bit self deprecating and a bit sarcastic with my "obvious" comment - hence the smiley. Didn't intend to offend.

But you've rather seemed to confirm what my thoughts were since I have to work really hard to keep that stove nice and hot. I was wondering if anyone was having better luck and with less effort that I.

Yikes!
That would put me under by $300+ (not including rear heat shield)!!

 

[jonwright]

No kidding. I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything here - looks like you guys are right where I am with it!

I did get the heat shield the other day so I could put the stove a bit closer to the wall. But I'm thinking the blower isn't worth messing with - on a number of levels.

 

[gyrfalcon]

There is a blower available for the Tribute:

Convection Blower: 8021/8040 P/N: 90-57210

I was attempting to be a bit self deprecating and a bit sarcastic with my "obvious" comment - hence the smiley. Didn't intend to offend.

But you've rather seemed to confirm what my thoughts were since I have to work really hard to keep that stove nice and hot. I was wondering if anyone was having better luck and with less effort that I.

No problem. It would help a lot if you put your stove and your general location in your sig line so others know what you're dealing with and where you're coming from.

Getting heat out of a small stove requires some work, no question. I've found that in addition to very close attention to the burn cycle, the absolutely key thing is the BTU content of the firewood and the size of the splits. Of the stuff that's easily available in quantity to me here, I've found that Black Birch does the absolute best for me. The one or two times my stove has briefly touched 500 was with a full load of well split-down black birch. Beech is almost as good. Even rock maple doesn't get me much above 350 to 375, no matter what I do, and less dense woods, like ash, are only good for shoulder season burning. Small splits burn hotter than large ones, too, so I put maximum 4 inch splits, mostly 3 and even 2, to get the best heat. (I burn larger stuff overnight, trading raw heat for longer burn time.)

I did try using a fan blowing against the stove, but there's only so much heat to go around, and though the fan spread it out, it lowered the overall room temperature. So I decided I'd rather have one end of the room be actually warm and the other end chilly, rather than the whole room cool.

But look on the bright side. It's pretty near impossible to have a runaway overfire with this stove (unless you've stuffed it full of pallet wood or something).