Considering a woodburning insert for large fireplace.

[Ray S]

Hello all;

I'm in Central Indiana just North of Indianapolis. We have a small 1750 sq ft ranch with a great room with a large fireplace. We used the gas log set 1st year we were here, however heat output was minimal. Then a few cracks developed in the top cap bricks and we discontinued it's use. Vectren sent us thank you cards monthly. I think they were just asking for money if you ask me.
The house is mid 50's build. Within the last week, a friend of mine who is a brick mason who does restoration work tuck pointed and replaced some bricks and says the outside of the fireplace is fine. However, there doesn't seem to be a liner. It may be one was never installed, or that the top part of it has crumbled. He didn't remove the rain cap to look.
So.....reading the forum and many other sites I understand a stainless steel liner may need to be installed. I have not done any measurements to the firebox and related features as yet, and I'll explain why. After searching for an insert, I noticed that all of the inserts seem to be too small for my fireplace. It measure's 54" across the front and 31" tall. additionally, there is a second smaller fireplace off to the left and higher than the main fireplace.

I guess I'm questioning weather an insert will even work at this point, however, I'm here to find out how to make this work.
We are going to burn wood this Winter somehow!

Thanks,
Ray

 

[Fsappo]

Wow, nice big fireplace. Is that a copper smoke hood across the top? Anyhow, just speaking on the brands we carry I know the Hearthstone Clydesdale has a huge glass and a surround panel extension that will cover a fireplace opening that is 59" wide x 36" tall. They retail for a little over $3k and in Central NY I tell customers they will heat 1000-1500 SF pretty easily with an overnight burn.

The other stove I'm familiar with is the Regency I3100. It has a smaller glass than the Clydesdale but it is a more powerful heater. I have customers here heating over 2000 sf with it pretty easily. They offer an oversized surround panel that will cover a fireplace opening that is ...oops. I just looked it up. Only 50" wide.

So from what I know, the Clydesdale would be a good fit for you.

Now you say the chimney is unlined. If you mean there are no clay tiles, then you would not only want to line the chimney, but you would want to make sure the liner was insulated. If the chimney is in fine shape with a clay liner you would want to line it anyhow for a million reason.

 

[begreen]

Do you know if the second small fireplace shares the same flue? If so, I'd think it should be blocked off when the liner is put in the main FP.

If you find an insert you really like, a custom surround or surround extension can be made.

 

[Ray S]

Yes, that is a custom made copper hood. The old guy was quite handy, however, I'm still uncovering some of his electrical handiwork. Suffice it to say the baseboard heaters are gone.
The second fireplace has it's own flue. As far as I know, the two are not connected. Should have a inspection done in the next two weeks. I'm shuddering at the thought this may cost us $5k.

 

[begreen]

That will be good if it has its own flue. The primary chimney will need to be cleaned before installing the liner.

A full installation is expensive, but also will last many years. Don't forget the tax credit for EPA approved insert installations.

 

[Todd]

Have you thought about cleaning up the brick work and installing a hearth stove? Your fireplace sure is big enough to set a nice looking stove in there.

 

[begreen]

Am I the only one that gets hugely nervous looking at the back of the small secondary fireplace leading right under the mantel face board? No code here.

 

[Ray S]

Have you thought about cleaning up the brick work and installing a hearth stove? Your fireplace sure is big enough to set a nice looking stove in there.

That is also under consideration. I wasn't sure if the smoke hood would interfere with a stove.
The secondary fireplace isn't being used, except to store books, DVD's whatever. I removed them for the pic.
I believe we will just put a glass screen in there at some point.
BTW, there isn't any firebrick in the main fireplace either.

 

[Todd]

Have you thought about cleaning up the brick work and installing a hearth stove? Your fireplace sure is big enough to set a nice looking stove in there.

That is also under consideration. I wasn't sure if the smoke hood would interfere with a stove.

I would remove the smoke hood, modify the damper area for your liner termination, stick a stove in there and vent it up to your liner. Maybe you could use part of that smoke hood for the block off plate in the damper area?

 

[Ray S]

After a closer inspection, it appears the metal bar that runs across the fireplace is at the top of the smoke hood. Right below the pine fascia.
If I remove the smoke hood, the opening would now be Approx. 64" from the hearth.
I can take a pic of that if anyone's interested.
BTW, the pic that doesn't show up in post #1 wasn't moved. I have it stored locally but was too large to attach.

 

[begreen]

Pictures need to be less than 1200 x 1200 pixels to post. Here are the instructions for posting pics:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewannounce/27_2/

And here is how to upload them to the forum:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/How_to_Upload_Images_to_Forum/

 

[Ray S]

Pictures need to be less than 1200 x 1200 pixels to post. Here are the instructions for posting pics:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewannounce/27_2/

And here is how to upload them to the forum:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/How_to_Upload_Images_to_Forum/

Thank you for that. The photo in question is over 700k. That's why I use photobucket. Automatic resizing.
I'm also a moderator on a car forum.

 

[Ray S]

I have a chimmey sweep coming by at 9:30 am. It seems like that the next logical step. Hopefully a level 1 inspection and cleaning is all that's needed. I take it a liner shouldn't be selected until a stove or insert is. Is my thinking correct?
Looks like there is a dealer in Indianapolis, their website doesn't work very well, so a visit is in order.
BTW, thanks for all the information posted on this site and for your personal feedback.
It is very much appreciated.

 

[gzecc]

I would also consider a stove install not an insert. A stove radiates better (sends less heat up the chimney more heat to the room). A stove also doesn't need a blower to work well. Could use the copper to make a nice block off plate!!

 

[Ray S]

There is some good news after all.
The flue is 13" by 13" and in good shape. So getting a insulated SS liner in there won't be an issue. The secondary fireplace doesn't share the flue and a block off plate was already installed. Damper is coming out now.
The insert is out at this point, and now were going to be placing a hearth stove instead.
The sweep is a jotul dealer.

 

[begreen]

Excellent. You will need to get the stove out on the hearth as far as possible or that deep cavern of a fireplace will act as a heat trap. Get a blower too.

I think you will definitely need a damper block-off plate, but I don't think it has one now, especially if the damper is still in there. Tell the sweep you want a damper block off plate. That will help quite a bit in this installation. This article explains why: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Seal_Fireplace_Damper/

PS: What's the car site?

 

[Ray S]

You guys provide excellent insight as I discussed the block off plate already. The fireplace is around 15' tall. Seems much taller looking at it from the driveway, which happens to be the pic I couldn't get to load.
I have an out building that I'll be putting firewood in. Made of old barn timbers. Firewood is something I'll have a lot of focus on now.
Thanks for the article, I can't imagine how much energy we lost last Winter.

The car site is grrrr8.net
Devoted to the recently discontinued Pontiac G8.