Corn stove and clinker problems

[ryanissamson]

Not that I'm not enjoying this conversation, but back on topic, IT WORKED!

Many thanks!

 

[SidecarFlip]

Not that I'm not enjoying this conversation, but back on topic, IT WORKED!

Many thanks!

I usually try to provide factual information, usually.

No problem. Corn burners have to stick (pun intended) together...lol

It won't always come out in one piece but most times, it will and coathangers are cheap and plentiful. Take the bisquit outside to the garden plot and wack it with a hammer, retrieve the hangers and reinstall...next time. 4 hangers bent work all the time.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Was recommended by another corn burner to keep the clinker from getting like a rock. The older corn varieties didn't seem to have as much of an issue. GMO problem? No access to lab anymore to try and figure out the makeup of the clinker.

Something I'm pondering as well. Will GMO corn react differently during carmelization and clinker formation...I don't know, in fact, I'm not sure what I'm burning. It's old crop (last year's) corn so I'm presuming it's pre GMO.

 

[Bioburner]

Most corn is GMO in this country now. If its resistant to bugs and Glyphosate its GMO. Listening to Conagra wanting non GMO beans and offering $2 bonus? Most corn in my area is for distillers. More sugar. Now have a fight about using industrial beets.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Do you have any pics or details of the dryer? Corn is 1/2 the price of pellets here, but I can't find any lower than 15% moisture, and it's tough to get going sometimes, and doesn't always store perfectly. I'd love to burn some 11% corn, but i'd have to dry it myself.

You really don't wat to 'play' with corn over 15%RM for a couple reasons, most notably the fact that any corn over 15 will not combust properly because the high moisture content defeats the combustion process (it has to vaporize off the excess moisture before it can carmelize and ignite) and with excess vaporization you also get excess nitric acid vapor, a big no-no for internal stove parts (ferrous metal) and venting issues.

Never tried it myself (I think Bioburner is) mixing +15 corn with pellets and roasting that. The pellets provide the heat impetus and assist combustion.

I just run my co-op sourced old crop -15 stuff. and call it good and I'm not running straight corn anyway, I'm on a 50-50 ratio because I pre-bought 5 ton of Somersets and while I store them inside in one of the barns, growing season demands all the under roof space for hay so pellets become a nusance in the summer.

I'd be real concerned about storage issues. I pull my corn from a grain tank (GSI) with a bucket spout on the side so it's elevated and rodent proof, One issue about corn storage is rodents. Varmits love shelled corn, so do mice and rats. If I was storing corn in anything other than a grain tank, it would be in 55 gallon drums with fitted lids secured with clamp rings and/or a dedicated plywood corn hopper, elevated from the ground on legs with a tight fitting topa d over 15 corn is asking for mold growth issues and/or heat from decomposition, why farmers never tank off harvest corn without drying it down below 15, the risk of spontaneous combustion is very real and wet corn burning really stinks.

It's quite possible to burn moldy corn so long as it's dry. I've roasted some real ugly corn in the past that I got for free when the co-op cleaned their grain silo's. The stuff was on the walls, nasty and old and it was free (key word) so I roasted it. Looked like pismuckle white kernals but it butned. Free is free.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Most corn is GMO in this country now. If its resistant to bugs and Glyphosate its GMO. Listening to Conagra wanting non GMO beans and offering $2 bonus? Most corn in my area is for distillers. More sugar. Now have a fight about using industrial beets.

I'll take your word on i in as much as I'm not a row cropper, just a consumer of sorts. Feed and forage in, N out. I have enough issues with roundup ready alfalfa..... I think the 'distillers' are in a world of hurt right now.

 

[rona]

Corn wise, the community here is a distinct minority. There are a few as well as a moderator (Bioburner)who roast corn but most on here are pellet burners. I suspect that will change as the corn versus pellet prices become even more attractive. Most pellet stoves can readily burn up to a 50% corn-pellet mix with no modification to the a/f ratio. Over 50% one needs to tailor the a/f ratio to a corn burn with more combustion air, run a modified corn pot and higher grade venting plus the maintenence, especially end of season maintenance becomes more critical.

I'm usually around (or Bioburner) if you have an issue or question.

[One thing you should add is that corn can be tough on pellet pipe so if you bought your stove to burn pellets the dealer more then likely installed pellet pipe which is cheaper then pipe for multi-fuel stoves.

 

[Bioburner]

I won't go near corn over 15%. Prefer 12% and now probably using single digit. Will get it tested tomorrow if have time. Storms coming with more rain BS. Lost power last Monday 4 times so with taking care of mothers horse farrier and other things I have a full plate tomorrow.

 

[rona]

[One thing you should add is that corn can be tough on pellet pipe so if you bought your stove to burn pellets the dealer more then likely installed pellet pipe which is cheaper then pipe for multi-fuel stoves.

One other thing to think about is if you burn a higher mix of pellets and corn you can easily burn corn up to 15%. Pellets are usually 7 to 8% moisture and a blend will allow you to burn higher moisture corn. The stove design itself has a limit of what moisture to burn.
GMO corn has been around for quite a while and I have seen no difference in performance. Location has played more of a part in the clinker problem then variety or at least that was what the Harman rep used to say when he came to this area showing his stoves. I would complain about the clinker buildup on the agitator and he would nod his head and say yeah it is bad in this area. But most other places have had no problems. I thought he should have been a politician.

 

[bags]

he would nod his head and say yeah it is bad in this area. But most other places have had no problems. I thought he should have been a politician.

Probably the same thing he said to people in other areas far away from you too.

 

[mustangwagz]

Ill be joining the "corn burning bus" next week. Already told the wife my plan with the coat hangers (thanks to flip and some PM's) She said "that sounds dumb" and i told her she sounded dumb...so....she's in the other room now and im browsing the forum. LOL stinking women know it alls! anyhow, yah sometime around or after christmas imma stick my coat hangers in the pot, pull the agitator and begin making caramel corn!

 

[SidecarFlip]

[One thing you should add is that corn can be tough on pellet pipe so if you bought your stove to burn pellets the dealer more then likely installed pellet pipe which is cheaper then pipe for multi-fuel stoves.

With a caveat. Straight corn and always corn in a pellet vent only will degrade the liner over time because the stainless used in a pellet only vent can't withstand the nitric acid vapor roasting corn produces, however, you can roast corn or a corn pellet mix with pellet only vent if (and only if) you follow a strict regimen of at least monthly, switching to pellets and running the stove hard for a period, running straight pellets for a period prior to spring shutdown and cleaning the stove and venting in the spring (thoroughly). Not a once over, but a good, deep clean, especially the stove itself. The stove interior is more prone to corrosion thatn the venting, especially from residual ash laying inside for months attracting moisture and becoming acidic. The interior is ferrous metal...aka: steel sheet.

I pull my CA fan out and clean the transition, vacuum out everything, every nook and cranny and the I fog the stove inside with automotive fogging oil and kick on the CA fan for a minute to get the fog everywhere.

My pellet only venting has been in place since IBC was rocking.... and I have no corrosion anywhere. Corn isn't like pellets simply because of the corrosion factor and that makes cleaning and final shutdown more complex.

IMO, lots of new burners approach this (stoves) as a plug and play item and when spring comes, shut it off and forget about it until the weather turns cold again. You can get away with that for a short time with pellets only. With corn, no way..

If my old memory serves me right you too were on IBC. Rona rings a bell...faintly.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Ill be joining the "corn burning bus" next week. Already told the wife my plan with the coat hangers (thanks to flip and some PM's) She said "that sounds dumb" and i told her she sounded dumb...so....she's in the other room now and im browsing the forum. LOL stinking women know it alls! anyhow, yah sometime around or after christmas imma stick my coat hangers in the pot, pull the agitator and begin making caramel corn!

A happy wife is a happy life.... It's Christmas. Be good.

 

[mustangwagz]

Flip, i forgot you mentioning the fogging after season is done. ill write that on my checklist of "Things to do when done" that coulda been a bad deal. By the looks of things, the previous owner NEVER did that to this stove. when i bought it i found corn in places that it prolly shouldnt have been in.

On Wednesday, the weather lire is predicting 50 degree's...if it is, that'll be a good day to yank the ole girl apart and give it a Super Cleaning. I intend on giving it the good hard brushing inside and out, The LBT, and i may pull the combustion fan since it'll be so nice. I can just turn on my electric space heaters and keep the house warm like that till i get it good and clean. Then ill construct some coat hangers and see how it does with either strait corn, or a heavy heavy corn mix.

Lately with the corn i got ive had to screen it pretty good to get the junk out. I think next year ill buy feedstore corn to cut out on some of the dicking around. i been cleaning out large chunks of stalk and cob. Thanks to flip, the wire rotary screener idea is working fairly well. Sadly though, i still get some cob and smaller pieces of stalk through the screen and it ends up in my mix. Nothing to worry abou though, im sure it'll either burn or clinker-ize in the burn pot then ill get it with the scraper. When i first got this pellet stove, i was so worried about auger jams cuz everyone was talking about them...now that ive been running it for a few months, i dont feel so worried. Ive watched it push out some big ole chunks of corn and chew up some gnarly long pellets without any noise! So far, So good! Love this ole girl, glad i paid the 100 bucks for it and gave it a good caring home where its beeing used 24/7 by someone who's mechanically inclined and petty picky about cleaning.

 

[rona]

With a caveat. Straight corn and always corn in a pellet vent only will degrade the liner over time because the stainless used in a pellet only vent can't withstand the nitric acid vapor roasting corn produces, however, you can roast corn or a corn pellet mix with pellet only vent if (and only if) you follow a strict regimen of at least monthly, switching to pellets and running the stove hard for a period, running straight pellets for a period prior to spring shutdown and cleaning the stove and venting in the spring (thoroughly). Not a once over, but a good, deep clean, especially the stove itself. The stove interior is more prone to corrosion thatn the venting, especially from residual ash laying inside for months attracting moisture and becoming acidic. The interior is ferrous metal...aka: steel sheet.

I pull my CA fan out and clean the transition, vacuum out everything, every nook and cranny and the I fog the stove inside with automotive fogging oil and kick on the CA fan for a minute to get the fog everywhere.

My pellet only venting has been in place since IBC was rocking.... and I have no corrosion anywhere. Corn isn't like pellets simply because of the corrosion factor and that makes cleaning and final shutdown more complex.

IMO, lots of new burners approach this (stoves) as a plug and play item and when spring comes, shut it off and forget about it until the weather turns cold again. You can get away with that for a short time with pellets only. With corn, no way..

If my old memory serves me right you too were on IBC. Rona rings a bell...faintly.

 

[rona]

Yeah I was . One other thing I forgot to mention is a cheap idea of drying corn as you need it. If you find you corn is a little wet for your stove get one of those screen type waste baskets That you used to see by secretarys desks. they will hold about 2 gallons of corn and if you set one on a chair in front of the stove you will take the moisture down about 2 points over night. That will typically take 15% corn to 13 and make it easier to burn.
Shutting your stove off in the spring and waiting until fall to clean it is pure neglect and lack of maintenance. The same people who do this are the first to complain about what a lousy stove they got and want to include the dealer cleaning their stove under warranty.

 

[bags]

Just for some fun and education I've been burning a 50 / 50 mix in the P68 the last couple of days. It does feel like a hotter burn but haven't been able to measure the temp to verify this. Bioburner suggested some stuff so the last time I was at TSC I grabbed a couple of bags of feed corn. OUCH! $8.29 for a 50 lb. bag. Top shelf TSC designer corn ain't cheap. I did run multi-fuel vent because I wanted to have my bases covered just in case.

It burned easily and without any issues at all. I was willing to go the TSC big money for a trial run and to check it out. Now I will look for my source for the good cheap bulk corn. No rush since I have more than enough pellets. I will have to agree the 50 / 50 mix is a good fuel to burn. The original owner of the PC45 burned 100% corn and didn't do proper cleanings. I think if you burn 100% corn you have to stay on top of cleanings a bit more than pellets even. I also think he was burning crappy wet corn non-stop which eventually forced him to give up and sell it.

 

[Bioburner]

Same people try and burn wood they cut a few weeks ago too. Have the same issues of cruding up the stove and a flue full of creosote.
Pay a lot to get anything put in a bag.

 

[bags]

I know but it was worth it just to see about it and know the new non- 100% corn burning P68 handled it no problem. I was likely more than 50% corn the second day. Not much but I know there was more corn than pellets in the mix. Stove reacted like normal and no more mess or anything. Just a little bit different ash content. Not really any messier or anything so far. I'll have to get some local silo stuff and show up for a chew crackle test at a co-op or local farmer.

These guys know me so they'll be honest about what they have. Just haven't asked yet. Hopefully, the ones I go to first will have decent corn. About 2-3 miles away tops.

 

[harttj]

Do you have any pics or details of the dryer? Corn is 1/2 the price of pellets here, but I can't find any lower than 15% moisture, and it's tough to get going sometimes, and doesn't always store perfectly. I'd love to burn some 11% corn, but i'd have to dry it myself.

I burn corn at 15% from the elevator. The price is based on 15% so people don't dry any lower as it doesn't make financial sense.

If you want drier corn buy a drier or will need to find someone that will do custom drying.

Tim

 

[bags]

I burn corn at 15% from the elevator. The price is based on 15% so people don't dry any lower as it doesn't make financial sense.

If you want drier corn buy a drier or will need to find someone that will do custom drying.

Tim

I'll check around on stuff. I am interested since corn is a lot less $$ than pellets and if you can cut costs I am all about that.

 

[johninwi]

Reguarding moisture, the farmer i got my corn from has a drier on top of the silo, he heats the corn to 120* and drops it to the lower part of the silo. I believe he said it was at 15%, is this the conventional drying method and if so is it possible to dry it further by reheating it to a higher temp?

Also like the wire trash basket idea. Will be trying it.

 

[rona]

Reguarding moisture, the farmer i got my corn from has a drier on top of the silo, he heats the corn to 120* and drops it to the lower part of the silo. I believe he said it was at 15%, is this the conventional drying method and if so is it possible to dry it further by reheating it to a higher temp?

Also like the wire trash basket idea. Will be trying it.

It costs more to dry for 15 down to 13 then it does 20 to 15. I don't remember but I used to turn the heat up until I browned the corn then backed it down a little. That gave me the fastest drying time. The funny part was I could run 19% though the dryer and it came out 21 hot. Then I used a cooling fan in the bin and by the time the corn got cooled down it was 15%. There is many types of drying systems out there. just dump it in a bin and run straight air through it will dry it. Then you can use hot air in the bin. That same bin can be set up with a stirring device to suck up the real dry corn near the floor and lay it on the top of the pile of corn in the bin. Then I think it was StorMor who had that system on top that would dry so much and drop it onto the floor of the bin. Continous flow is the preferred system these days as it can produce the most frying at the cheapest cost.

 

[johninwi]

Is it possible to determine MC by the weight? Also, if corn is brought in from outside where it was at or below freezing it's going to have condensation form, any ill effects?

 

[Bioburner]

Very hard to get moisture # as corn can range from the 40 to 60+lbs per bushel. Bringing in corn cold from outside can condensate some moisture on it but winter air is usually very low humidity. I PMd you abit ago.