Cost difference between seasoned and unseasoned firewood?

[NickDL]

Well since he is ignoring you now, I'd report him like others have said. I would also contact the state measurements board or whomever checks weight & measurements.

 

[Lumber-Jack]

Unfortunately I don't have space to store several years' worth of wood. I live a hillside, and the level areas around my house are not very big. A couple of cords is no problem, but much beyond that and we'd be swimming in firewood. Anyhow, after this winter we should have a much clearer idea of how much wood we need.

Being that is the case, if I was you I would definitely invest in a moisture meter and get serious about locating a source of dry wood.
As has been stated, the term "seasoned" mean different things to different people. To many firewood dealers it's just a loose term they use to sell their wood. To others it means wood that has been split and stacked for several years.
I think the term "seasoned" should be dropped entirely and the term "less than 20% moisture content" should be the used, as this is a lot more telling of what condition the would is really in, and would remove all the guess work that seems to surround the acquiring of firewood.

 

[Jon1270]

I've already got a moisture meter for my work, though it's range may be too low to use for firewood. I didn't even need it when the wood I got arrived, as it was obviously not dry. I was disinclined to get into a confrontation about it, until I realized he'd also shorted me.

 

[osagebow]

I added a bit of info to my signature line.

I live in Pittsburgh. The surrounding hills are just covered in hardwood forests, and labor is fairly cheap so firewood prices here aren't so dear as some areas of the country. One of the more expensive outfits will deposit two neatly stacked half-cord pallets of dry oak anywhere their crane can reach for about $250, and give you a bottle of expensive wine from their vineyard as a bonus. .

Wow - the 'burgh has changed. I figured they'd dump it out of a pea-green Vega and hand you a 6 pack of Iron....
Sorry that jagoff overcharged you for wet wood -

Welcome Jon, and good luck getting your supply from now on.
(I grew up in Port Vue, near McKeesport)

 

[lukem]

Around here, buying dry wood ("seasoned") is hard to do unless you find homeowner wanting to unload their stacks or something. If you buy from a firewood seller, you will almost always get wet wood. Most of it goes from a log to delivered in a month or two max, usually a lot less than that. They say it is "seasoned" because the tree was cut down a year ago...which does little for drying.

As far as price, check local listings, but I think it has more to do with the time of year you are buying. Right now we are heading into peak season and you are going to pay a premium. The best time to buy is at the end of the season when the guy already has the wood cut and split, the time invested in it, not a lot of demand, and wants to get their $ out of it....so end of March or so.

If you have the scratch, buy the next two year's worth of wood early next spring and then one year's worth every spring thereafter.

 

[Jon1270]

I do understand that most firewood is sold damp. The reason I went with this guy, and paid him a little more than some other dealers, was that he claimed on the phone that all the wood had been cut and split at least a year ago, and any oak in the load would have been cut even earlier because it takes longer to dry. He was very specific in his claims. So while I can understand why wood is sold wet; even if they split it months ahead of time -- it's more work to stack it so it can get air, and then if they do stack it, the value goes up and they probably have to worry about theft. And since so many dealers claim falsely that their wood is dry, it's all the harder to charge a premium for wood that actually is. So they keep it in a heap, and it only sorta-kinda seasons. Not ideal, but it makes sense and I can accept it. The real problem in my case was the brazen lying.

 

[Nixon]

I do understand that most firewood is sold damp. The reason I went with this guy, and paid him a little more than some other dealers, was that he claimed on the phone that all the wood had been cut and split at least a year ago, and any oak in the load would have been cut even earlier because it takes longer to dry. He was very specific in his claims. So while I can understand why wood is sold wet; even if they split it months ahead of time -- it's more work to stack it so it can get air, and then if they do stack it, the value goes up and they probably have to worry about theft. And since so many dealers claim falsely that their wood is dry, it's all the harder to charge a premium for wood that actually is. So they keep it in a heap, and it only sorta-kinda seasons. Not ideal, but it makes sense and I can accept it. The real problem in my case was the brazen lying.

I think that most , if not all of us have been down the road you just traveled . Unfortunately that's the nature of the firewood business . I truly believe the only way to get " seasoned " wood is to process it yourself . The only other option is to buy firewood from a seller 2 years before you intend to use it . And , yes , I know that it takes a decent investment to do it . But, it's worth it in the end . If you are close to West Sunbury ,have a truck ,and in a real bind ....... Bring me a load of your green stuff , and I'll swap you out even up for something that is good and dry . It's cherry ,maple , ash ,and some oak . I well and truly know the feeling of having winter coming , and wood that's not ready . So , this is a Karma thing on my part

 

[Jon1270]

Thank you, Nixon, that's an incredibly generous offer. I don't think I'll need to take you up on it, though. I've put in a small order with another wood seller who seems (fingers crossed) somewhat more legitimate.

 

[krex1010]

Assume all wood is green when buying, Regardless of what a dealer says, it's all green, nobody sells wood that has been sitting around split for a year. Buy at least 6 months if not a year before you plan on burning the wood and you will make out just fine.

 

[Bacffin]

This is a post in the New Hampshire CL. Looks like the state is taking notice too. Good for them!
http://nh.craigslist.org/for/3329019090.html

email this posting to a friend new hampshire craigslist > for sale / wanted > general for sale - by owner
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Firewood scammer (NH)

Date: 2012-10-10, 10:53AM EDT
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From the state of NH weights and measurements:
Purchasing Firewood--Use Common Sense
Richard P. Cote, Supervisor Bureau of Weights & Measures
The Bureau of Weights and Measures is charged with enforcing laws dealing with the buying and selling of
commodities that are offered by weight, measure or count. One of the common commodities trading this time of year is
firewood--especially "seasoned" firewood. Unfortunately, this office continues to receive complaints from consumers that
they received less firewood then was offered by a firewood dealer.
Although we are generally successful in resolving these issues, a recent complaint is an example of the frustration
this office has in bringing about justice when a consumer has been "shorted".
This consumer in the southern part of the state answered an advertisement offering an "accurate cord" (as
compared to an inaccurate cord?) of firewood for $200 plus delivery. She ordered one cord for $200 plus a $40 delivery
charge. The only thing she knew about the seller was that he called himself Ralph. When the driver arrived, he insisted on
cash. When the customer asked for a receipt or invoice, the driver refused. She then paid him the cash and took possession
of the wood. After stacking, she believed she had only ¾ of a cord. She then called the bureau.
An assigned investigator measured not ¾ of a cord but only % of a cord--the monetary damage--$75. Even
worse, we had very little evidence to assist her. We did not know who the seller or driver was, nor did we have proof
that a transaction had even taken place since there was no invoice or receipt. In addition when we tried to trace the
phone number, it had been disconnected and the newspaper that printed the advertisement required a subpoena in
order for us to access the information. A subpoena will also be required to access the phone records.
I would like to again to remind consumers to use common sense when buying firewood for the first time:
1. Ask friends or neighbors for a referral. There is no use for you reinventing the wheel.
2. If you answer a blind advertisement, ask for pertinent information, e.g., price including delivery, quality (seasoned or
green), species (oak, beech, ash, etc., mixed hardwood) and the name of the seller.
3. Upon delivery, examine the wood before it is dumped.
4. If you pay cash, ask and insist on a receipt or invoice (remember, if it's not written down, it never happened). If the
driver/seller argues or refuses, do not pay. Make sure you know whom you're dealing with. If you can't make out the
signature, ask how to spell the name. Feel free to discreetly write down the plate number of the delivery vehicle.
The seller is required to present the purchaser an invoice, but if the seller fails to do so, the purchaser should insist. The
required items on the invoice are:
1. The name and address of the vendor;
2. The name and address of the purchaser;
3. The date delivered;
4. The quantity delivered and the quantity upon which the price is based, (the price per cord) if this differs from the
delivered quantity;
5. The price of the amount delivered; and
6. The identity in the most descriptive terms commercially practicable, (e.g., mixed hardwood) including any quality
representation (e.g., seasoned, green) made in connection with the sale.
For more information, contact the Division of Weights & Measures, NH Dept. of Agriculture, Markets & Food, PO Box 2042,
Concord, NH 03302-2042, call us at. 271-3700or visit our website: www.agriculture.nh.gov.

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[Nixon]

Thank you, Nixon, that's an incredibly generous offer. I don't think I'll need to take you up on it, though. I've put in a small order with another wood seller who seems (fingers crossed) somewhat more legitimate.

No problem . I've been in that spot myself and got a bit of help . So I thought I'd pay it forward . If things dont work out , shoot me a Pm , Ill be glad to help out .

 

[Jon1270]

In case anybody is interested...

I just finished stacking the firewood that arrived today from the second seller. Despite the protestations that this never happens, the wood is quite dry. This seller has a degree in forestry and actually understands moisture content. The wood was split and stacked months ago, and is now silvery from exposure to the weather, the ends are checked from shrinkage and it's dry even inside when you split it.

But dangit if this load wasn't short, too. I paid for 3/4 of a cord, and only got a little over half. Even that amount is probably generous, because the sizes of the pieces are all over the place, so it's difficult to stack tightly.

This is way harder than it should be.

 

[hilbiliarkiboi]

Wine? Wine! Wine$

 

[Jon1270]

Yep, the most expensive option is looking like the cheapest option.

 

[hilbiliarkiboi]

If you have nothing with which to cut or haul, find some other way to get involved.
Sacrifice now to put two years by, you'll no longer want to cry.
For dry wood too you'll have to store, or green you'll get when you go for more.
Truth and value are both perceived, cut, split and stack-then you'll believe.

 

[Jon1270]

Truth and value are both perceived, cut, split and stack-then you'll believe.

I believe, I believe! I don't have a truck, and I don't have space for a fleet of heavy equipment, but I do see the value in DIYing as much of this as is feasible.

On the bright side, it seems the second guy accidentally brought a half-cord load instead of 3/4 cord. He quickly acknowledged the mistake and wants to make it right. So maybe not so bad after all.

 

[hilbiliarkiboi]

10-4. And the buy at end of season to fill all available space idea I like.
Maybe scrounge some pallets for a rack to stack taller.

Welcome to the warmest forum out there..