Cost of Boiler what would be our best option, help us decide

[valentine92]

Need some advise. We currently have an oil boiler with hotwater baseboard heat. The boiler is 32 years old and the oil tank is original with the house 45 years old. The boiler also supplies us with our domestic hotwater. We were told that we should consider replacing the tank soon, bottom of the tank is a bit moist, but not leaking. Cost of replacing the tank approximately $1,300.

3 years ago when the price of oil went through the roof we put a pellet stove on the main floor of our house (its a ranch) and it heats the whole living area nicely.

Should we replace the oil tank? We know its just a matter of time before we will need to replace the boiler as well. Is this a wise idea, since we only use the oil for hotwater and as a backup if the pellet stove isnt working? We dont have the money to replace either the oil tank or the boiler so we would have to finance it. Gas is not an option in our area. Is there another type of boiler that would be less expensive to replace the oil so we can use the baseboard heat if needed? We can easily convert our hotwater to electric for a few hundred dollars. We are not interested in a pellet boiler.

Do they make electric boilers and are the efficient? The only other option we can think of is propane gas, but we were told by some friends that if you dont use a certain amount a year the price per gallon is super high. We also have central air and wonder if getting a heat pump would be less expensive.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated!

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

I would buy a cheap electric hot water heater & save untill you can afford a wood boiler. There is no free lunch with heat! Electric boilers are 100 percent efficient, I don't think you would want to pay the bills though. Most members are burning wood because thats the cheapest way out. If you search you can find good used oil tanks for $50.00. Another option is to put a bigger wood stove in place of the pellet stove. Used nice wood stoves on Craigslist go for around $100.00. I think thats the least expensive for you, Randy

 

[btuser]

I added an oil tank to my house. With everyone converting to gas in my area I was able to get a 2yr old tank with guage, filter, and fill pipes for only $100. That saved me about $600 and by installing it myself I saved another $700. By having 2 tanks I can buy an extra in the Summer and when prices are (supposed to be) lower. I figure it saves me about $100/yr. If you're the do-it-yourself kind of person you can do this. The new tank is not that heavy, just bulky. Maybe 100 lbs. The hardest part is emptying/removing the old tank, because at that age its going to be heavy with sediment.

I've got a question for you: Do you have an indirect hot water tank, or does your hot water come from a tankless coil directly from the boiler. If its a tankless coil you mine as well get electric hot water because tankless coils one of the most inefficient ways of heating hot water. They work well during the Winter when the boiler is hot and heating the house, but terrible during the Summer. Because you're using a pellet stove now your boiler is in Summer mode all the time! This is good news, because it means there's significant savings to be had.

If your AC condenser is 5 years or older, odds are it is around 10 seer, maybe the wrong size, and could be upgraded to an air-source heat pump w/ electric backup. That would be great for backup in case you don't feel like burning pellets, but honestly people in colder climates are often disappointed with the heat pumps. New heat pumps are good to 10 degrees, so if you get mostly 30 degrees and some 20 degree weather its a definate possibility. They're very efficient in the shoulder seasons but not in the bitter weather, but if you've got the will to burn pellets you're good to go. Then depending on your water usage an electric hot water tank would be cheapest followed by electric point of use tankless units. The advantage to this would be upgrading two systems for the price of what it would cost you to upgrade your boiler+oil tank only.

Propane is close to 2x the cost of oil on a BTU basis. In my state it is as expensive as electric. Propane belongs on a grill.

 

[btuser]

Here's a thought depending on how large your house is, and how much of a budget we're talking about:

People in a pinch can use an electric hot water tank to heat their baseboard. The catch is these tanks are only really meant to heat your water to 140 degrees, and pushing 180 degree water for baseboards through them kills them quick. If you get an outdoor reset control, you can modulate the temp and streach it to maybe 5 years (which, for $400 and a couple easy connections is a bargin) but they will not last 30 years like a good boiler.

You could get a large hot water heater and use that as backup heat for your pellet stove. In essence it is an electric boiler, and you're heating water.

 

[valentine92]

wow great suggestions, I appreciate it. What about electric baseboard heaters installed on the walls of my house that does not have the hotwater baseboard heaters? We would only use them as a backup when it is extremely cold or when the pellet stove isn't working would that be a cheap alternative also?

 

[btuser]

Well, you'd have to rip the hydronic baseboard out and install electric. I think it would be cheaper to keep the baseboard and replace the boiler.

1.) Do a heat loss calc on your house.
2.) Do all the insulating/sealing that you can.

How many ton of pellets do you burn? That would give you a good idea on your system needs.

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

Electric around here is not cheap to run. I don't know what your wood supply situation is there, I pass it by here as I have no more storage room. If you don't want to or can't burn wood your choices are expensive to me, even pellets aren't cheap here. Doesn't PA have the anthracite coal? If you do your worries are over. That is a great fuel source if you don't need to truck it far. I'd start with a coal stove & save for a boiler that will burn it, Randy

 

[kabbott]

Sounds like your happy with the pellet stove and just need a backup?

If so I would convert to electric hot water(cheaper than oil) And maybe look into a heat pump hot water heater(nice tax break for that till end of year).
I know nothing about electric boilers but they are available, may be fine for backup.

Not sure where your at in PA but I just removed 1 of my oil tanks last year(had 2 tanks). I Took it to my dads and put it behind the shop, if it's still there you could have it
but I would have to check. Im near the MD/ Pa line...........

 

[benjamin]

I usually agree with BTU, but in this case, if you want to do the electric baseboards then I say that is the way to go. Much more reliable than any other system and cheap (to install only of course!). In the midwest electricity is 10cents a KWH so it's competetive with oil at somewhere around $3 gal when you consider the efficiency. Electric baseboards make a great backup heat source.

If you go with a woodburner, and/or pellets you should save a lot over oil or gas, even with the extra electricity for electric.

The next step is to start looking at conservation measures for the heat load and hot water, then maybe a tempering tank and solar water heater. Keep reading the old threads and doitsolar.com

 

[valentine92]

Well, you'd have to rip the hydronic baseboard out and install electric. I think it would be cheaper to keep the baseboard and replace the boiler.

1.) Do a heat loss calc on your house.
2.) Do all the insulating/sealing that you can.

How many ton of pellets do you burn? That would give you a good idea on your system needs.

we use between 2.5 - 3 tons but that is with keeping the place toasty warm with the pellet stove on 80-85 degrees. We could probably get by with 2 tons if we kept the stove on 70-75.

 

[valentine92]

would an electric boiler cost us approximately the same amount of money to run compared to central air? Our electric bill in the summer is not too bad, we keep the air on 70 and our bills are under 200 a month, would it be comparable to a boiler? Remember we would only use the boiler for hotwater and for supplemental heat for our pellet stove, would this be the cheapest way to go so we can utilize the hotwater baseboard heaters? and does anyone know if the cost for a electric boiler is cheaper than an oil boiler?

 

[benjamin]

Get an electric water heater for hot water, even if you are going with a wood boiler down the road, just add a heat exchanger and keep the tank.

The electric boiler will cost about as much as electric baseboards, maybe a little more because of heat loss to the basement. Baseboards would be much cheaper to put in if you do it yourself, unless you can get a used electric boiler, or use a water heater, and do that yourself also.

I would guess the cost of an electric boiler is substantialy cheaper than an oil boiler, this should be easy to find. The operating cost might not be that much different either, you'll have to run the numbers yourself or post your rates here.

If you're looking for "shoulder season" heat, then an air source heat pump may make sense. You might not want to burn wood when you don't need that much heat, and that's when the heat pump can operate most efficiently. On the other hand, if you only need the back up heat in case you're gone, then the electric baseboards may be the cheaper option.

 

[Don2222]

Hello

I had and old 22 year old oil boiler with baseboard heat. I just replaced it with a cold start Buderus Triple pass boiler with an out door reset. That uses less than half the oil of my old beast. So that makes oil now alot cheaper than the pellet stove and a pellet boiler that uses 20 pounds a day for Domestic Hot Water! That's if oil stays at $2.50 a gallon

 

[btuser]

I'm not at all against electric heat, but if the hyronic baseboard is already there then all you need is hot water, so an electric boiler (or just a water heater) has to be a cheaper option than removal, rewiring and installation. At 2-3 tons of pellets/year you are definately not in the market to be spending a ton of money on backup heat. I hear stories about people heating their homes that cheaply and I get real, real jealous!

Here in NH our electric rate is about $.18/KW. Not cheap. Oil has to be in the neighborhood of $4-$5 in order for it to make sense. Heat pumps are 2-3x better than resistive heat, and with ducts for central air that may be the cheapest/easiest way, while at the same time upgrading the cooling to save money during the Summer months.

 

[sgrenier35]

Get a couple of the ductless mini-split A/C/Heat pump systems installed and an electric hot water heater. A couple grand and you have whole house a/c too!