slls
Minister of Fire
I didn't know South Dakota had terrorist, or dictators. But then again this is the US.
Cost of pellets vs oil
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I didn't know South Dakota had terrorist, or dictators. But then again this is the US.
slls
Minister of Fire
I do believe that one of our member's accounts may have been hackedThat is the least sensible post I have read on here yet. Oil forum is next window over.
I still burn pellets, just not when it's cold.
slls
Minister of Fire
I know most people on this site never heard of weatherization, by a lot of posts they are heating barns.
Bioburner
Moderator
Trying to heat 100 plus year old homes that never knew what fiberglass was. Some are not improvable by much because of older wiring and construction methods. My previous home built in 1953 only had 1 inch but at least was updateable to an extent.
St_Earl
Minister of Fire
Bioburner
Moderator
Wilkinson, North Dakota is the big oil producer. US was not #1 oil exporter till just a little while ago.
SmokeEater
Feeling the Heat
My cape is in northern NY and the weather here is probably similar to north central Maine. The house is over 3000 square feet and is in a windy area and in fact there is one of the largest wind farms in NY in my back yard so to speak. If I get by with 8 tons this year, I'll be a happy pellet burner and a warm one at 72*F.
Lumberjack
Member
wow...late to the party!
my home isn't a barn...it has 2x4 walls with fiberglass insulation (we've opened a few up to check!), updated windows, lots of attic insulation, newer doors ect ect but it still isn't enough. IMO you need at least R19 on your walls for the structure to hold any heat in the dead of winter.
when i click the oil heat on it warms up quickly. when the furnace shuts off you can feel it cool off quickly. with oil I kept the thermostat at 62F. burning the pellet stove for ~12hrs currently uses less than 30 lbs. house stays above 68F. we shall see what the rest of the winter brings.
my home isn't a barn...it has 2x4 walls with fiberglass insulation (we've opened a few up to check!), updated windows, lots of attic insulation, newer doors ect ect but it still isn't enough. IMO you need at least R19 on your walls for the structure to hold any heat in the dead of winter.
when i click the oil heat on it warms up quickly. when the furnace shuts off you can feel it cool off quickly. with oil I kept the thermostat at 62F. burning the pellet stove for ~12hrs currently uses less than 30 lbs. house stays above 68F. we shall see what the rest of the winter brings.
rayttt
Feeling the Heat
my home aspires to be a barn!
2x4 walls..about R0.06 if I had to guess..Have never seen flimsier insulation..its a summer home...
a little 2 bedroom vacation home in the Poconos.
But with a P38 cranking about half way its good down to zero...I haven't had colder than that since I got it yet.
2x4 walls..about R0.06 if I had to guess..Have never seen flimsier insulation..its a summer home...
a little 2 bedroom vacation home in the Poconos.
But with a P38 cranking about half way its good down to zero...I haven't had colder than that since I got it yet.
Pellet-King
Minister of Fire
Pellet-King
Minister of Fire
like me you must have forced air heat, as a kid i grew up with oil baseboard heat, dont ever recall being cold in the '70's, my house now has 1952 forced air oil heat,never knew forced air was even in homes back then...my luck buying this house in 2008, it was summer never heard the furnace, would of not bought it if i knew it's very loud as the furnace is under my bedroom and the whoosh of the air is very loud...hate it...so i burn pellets
St_Earl
Minister of Fire
yeah. forced air oil is all i've ever had experience with.
this house has it as well.
it was awful in mild portland oregon, and it's completely out of the question in millinocket maine..
i am over the moon happy with pellet heat. our little place gets thorough consistent heat from just the pellet stove.
I have a 2 story Colonial, 2200 sq ft. My Harmon xxv keeps entire downstairs warm to what I set the stove stat. Upstairs, steady 67 all day. Only time my oil burner comes on is in the morning when upstairs is 65-66
Furnaces used to be ridiculously oversized still are to a degree that is the biggest problem in a really cold climate. You cook the house then let it cool rinse and repeat. We have a two stage heat pump forced air 36k btu first stage 50k btu second stage, then electric coil if its ridiculously cold to add to the 50k btu output. We dont have the problem with inconsistent heat it runs almost continually when it drops in the teens so you don't get the hot/cold problems. I prefer it to baseboard its actually quieter. We have both in our house baseboard is slowly coming out. Im in Maine its cold..
Would love to have radiant floors..
WOODNUT358
Member
I have a 1600sf home.I use no more than 4 tons a year in the 5yrs. I've been burning pellets.The house is a constant 70-72* all winter long.The the bottom line,the Arabs aren't getting the $$$$$$$ I used to be sending them for oil.I'll stick with the pellets.
slls
Minister of Fire
Veggie oil burner?
What makes you think your HHO comes from South Dakota? There are several refineries that make HHO. Ive never heard of anyone saying their HHO came from South Dakota oil production.
becasunshine
Minister of Fire
For us, currently, it's natural gas vs. pellets. If we put a pellet stove in the house at the river (which is my plan, I'm sitting here as I type missing my pellet stove in town) then it will pellets vs. propane.
We will also put a free standing gas stove here at the river as well for use during power outages. We don't have a fireplace, and as of right this moment we don't have a generator here either. I don't anticipate having a generator here until we live here full time. I doubt we'll put a gas stove here until we are here full time as well- but we do come here all year (obviously, here I sit) and a pellet stove vs. propane is almost no contest.
We've had a lot of other projects unfolding so we don't have a pellet stove here at this time- but it's coming. Just a matter of time and budget.
All this being said, I've done some tortuous calculations on pellets vs. natural gas. There are many online calculators that say that pellets and natural gas run about neck and neck in terms of price per therm/price per BTU produced. My colloquial experience differs. I can only attribute this discrepancy to the infrastructure costs, fees, taxes, etc. tacked onto our natural gas bill.
Here's my off the cuff analysis:
We had our pellet stove installed in September 2008, when our natural gas provider announced a 25% increase in natural gas prices. September in Virginia is still summer. I can't recall when exactly we fired up the stove in 2008, but I'm sure we were using it as our main source of heat by November.
I cancelled our natural gas budget billing plan as soon as we installed the pellet stove. IIRC, the highest monthly natural gas bill we received for the winter of 2008/2009 was about $50.
In the spring of 2009, after a full season with the pellet stove, I called our natural gas provider and asked them for an adjusted budget billing amount. Again, IIRC, the company adjusts the budget billing amount once annually, so unless you cancel your budget billing plan, you are paying that amount for the year.
After a full season of pellet stove usage, during which our highest bill was approximately $50, the gas company wanted to charge us a $90/month budget billing amount for 12 months out of the year.
No thank you.
So we stayed on "pay as you go," and since that time, our highest monthly natural gas bill was in late winter/early spring of 2011 (was that the year that it snowed several times and stayed below freezing for weeks on end, even during the day? Highly unusual for Virginia.) The highest natural gas bill we've received since installing the pellet stove was during that cold spell, and it was approximately $70 for that month.
Just this past summer, I called our natural gas company, after several years of using the pellet stove, and asked again for a budget billing amount, which would be in effect for 12 months unless I cancelled it. The representative looked up the historical usage at this address (house was built in 1958/1959) and came back with a budget billing amount of- wait for it- $100.
I know for a fact that we don't burn $1200/year in pellets. We probably wouldn't use $1200/year in natural gas either... but then again, we might. Similar homes in our neighborhood, similar construction, similar age, similar size, will run $300/month natural gas bills during the coldest part of the year. So, perhaps, $1200/year isn't far off.
We burn about 2 tons of pellets per year, and if I shop *very* carefully, that will cost us under $500/year.
We still use natural gas to heat water but with two people, that's a minimal amount.
I can't imagine that it would be *cheaper* to burn oil than to burn pellets. I don't see how that is possible. If you enjoy your oil heat- and it is warm heat, I grew up with old school oil furnaces- then by all means enjoy it. Our emphasis is on cost savings and we're willing to do the work and put up with the slightly uneven heat in the house for that.
We will also put a free standing gas stove here at the river as well for use during power outages. We don't have a fireplace, and as of right this moment we don't have a generator here either. I don't anticipate having a generator here until we live here full time. I doubt we'll put a gas stove here until we are here full time as well- but we do come here all year (obviously, here I sit) and a pellet stove vs. propane is almost no contest.
We've had a lot of other projects unfolding so we don't have a pellet stove here at this time- but it's coming. Just a matter of time and budget.
All this being said, I've done some tortuous calculations on pellets vs. natural gas. There are many online calculators that say that pellets and natural gas run about neck and neck in terms of price per therm/price per BTU produced. My colloquial experience differs. I can only attribute this discrepancy to the infrastructure costs, fees, taxes, etc. tacked onto our natural gas bill.
Here's my off the cuff analysis:
We had our pellet stove installed in September 2008, when our natural gas provider announced a 25% increase in natural gas prices. September in Virginia is still summer. I can't recall when exactly we fired up the stove in 2008, but I'm sure we were using it as our main source of heat by November.
I cancelled our natural gas budget billing plan as soon as we installed the pellet stove. IIRC, the highest monthly natural gas bill we received for the winter of 2008/2009 was about $50.
In the spring of 2009, after a full season with the pellet stove, I called our natural gas provider and asked them for an adjusted budget billing amount. Again, IIRC, the company adjusts the budget billing amount once annually, so unless you cancel your budget billing plan, you are paying that amount for the year.
After a full season of pellet stove usage, during which our highest bill was approximately $50, the gas company wanted to charge us a $90/month budget billing amount for 12 months out of the year.
No thank you.
So we stayed on "pay as you go," and since that time, our highest monthly natural gas bill was in late winter/early spring of 2011 (was that the year that it snowed several times and stayed below freezing for weeks on end, even during the day? Highly unusual for Virginia.) The highest natural gas bill we've received since installing the pellet stove was during that cold spell, and it was approximately $70 for that month.
Just this past summer, I called our natural gas company, after several years of using the pellet stove, and asked again for a budget billing amount, which would be in effect for 12 months unless I cancelled it. The representative looked up the historical usage at this address (house was built in 1958/1959) and came back with a budget billing amount of- wait for it- $100.
I know for a fact that we don't burn $1200/year in pellets. We probably wouldn't use $1200/year in natural gas either... but then again, we might. Similar homes in our neighborhood, similar construction, similar age, similar size, will run $300/month natural gas bills during the coldest part of the year. So, perhaps, $1200/year isn't far off.
We burn about 2 tons of pellets per year, and if I shop *very* carefully, that will cost us under $500/year.
We still use natural gas to heat water but with two people, that's a minimal amount.
I can't imagine that it would be *cheaper* to burn oil than to burn pellets. I don't see how that is possible. If you enjoy your oil heat- and it is warm heat, I grew up with old school oil furnaces- then by all means enjoy it. Our emphasis is on cost savings and we're willing to do the work and put up with the slightly uneven heat in the house for that.
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slls
Minister of Fire
Veggie oil burner?
What makes you think your HHO comes from South Dakota? There are several refineries that make HHO. Ive never heard of anyone saying their HHO came from South Dakota oil production.
Ever hear of Lac Magantec, that was oil coming to my refinery from South Dakota. I only have one local refinery up here in the woods
Yes I know of it. I don't really know enough where home heating oil comes from I just know theres numerous refineries that make HHO just because your close to one doesnt necessary mean that is where your HHO comes from. Maybe it does though it sounds like in your case it does.
Some HHO even comes from Venezuela.
becasunshine
Minister of Fire
I second that, St. Earl. Perhaps I should post pictures of our attic.
Or maybe our replacement windows, swaddled in cell shades and butt ugly thermal curtain panels. Or the hardwood floors, all yurted up in their Costco-thickness area rugs (purchased on deep discount at the end of season a couple of years ago.) NO WAIT I KNOW, the electrical outlets on the external walls, with their insulation inserts and their child-proof safety caps plugging up the sockets! Or, perhaps, my laundry flapping in the breeze on the line outside, so we aren't sucking the air we've already heated from the house into the dryer, heating it up some more, then dumping it outside... Somebody stop me, I'm on a roll!
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becasunshine
Minister of Fire
iceguy4
Minister of Fire
The cold / hot deal is more a mater of the delivery system. I was 52 years old before I discovered cast iron radiators combined with hot water.
..and my plumber says "steam is even better"
I can tell you it is very nice...quiet , not dry, even heat, and if you pay $$$ a sand blasted, powder coated radiator is very smooth and attractive. Now I cant speak of HW baseboard but it cant have the residual heat of a radiator, and that is what buffers the delivery.I have lived with and loved the heat of a wood stove BUT I can live without the localized heat and cold "corners" mess up stairs...bla,bla...
iceguy4
Minister of Fire
iceguy4
Minister of Fire
the wind whistled through mine. on a cold day you could feel the cold ...like 6" away!! took several old covers, drilled a hole in them , installed them and sprayed foam from small cans in the hole. the next day replace the cover with a new one. what a difference. Oh I also sprayed "pam" on the back of the holed cover so it wouldn't stick
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