Ok so I got my new/ used wood boiler installed and all plumbed up and it works like a champ... But my draft doesn't seem to suck like it should. When I open my boiler door the smoke will feed back into the basement. Also ( without getting into the legal ramifications) I hooked an exsisting wood fireplace up and tied it into the same chimney one floor above the boiler. But I shut down the wood boiler in the basement right before I fired up the fire place, thinking that since the chimney was nice and warm the draft would be great. Nope with some small kindling and 2 small peices of firewood the fireplace wouldnt not completely draft. Needless to say my house is a little hazy LOL. I can deal with the wood boiler in the basement smoking a little when firing up. But I would like the fireplace to vent properly. I did a quick search for power vents, but didnt find quite what I was looking for. Does someone make an inline power vent??
Crappy draft
- Thread starter bulldogbones
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
LLigetfa
Minister of Fire
You need to fix the house, not the chimney. I'd bet a box of donuts that you are losing air to stack effect and the house lacks make-up air.
woodchip
Minister of Fire
Don't know your rules and regs over there, but here it is not possible to run two appliances on one flue.
Having said that, I really do not see why that in itself should affect the draughting, unless one is burning and air is leaking into the other, taking a mix of burnt and unburnt gases up the flue, reducing the pull of the hot gases.
And that may possibly be the problem with the draughting.........
Having said that, I really do not see why that in itself should affect the draughting, unless one is burning and air is leaking into the other, taking a mix of burnt and unburnt gases up the flue, reducing the pull of the hot gases.
And that may possibly be the problem with the draughting.........
The Chimney is an interior 6" mason close to 40' tall. With a trap door at the bottom ( which I have sealed completely shut). It has only two inlets, one about 5' up from the bottom ( wood boiler ) and the second one about 15' up ( fireplace ). My house was built in 1862 and is a wood frame structure, if that helps. I also swept the chimney half the way down ( because thats all my neighbor had for rod ).
I dont know about the stack effect. But my house is about as air tight as a screen door.
http://www.heatilator.com/downloads/installManuals/MARK_123_38C.pdf
I dont know about the stack effect. But my house is about as air tight as a screen door.
http://www.heatilator.com/downloads/installManuals/MARK_123_38C.pdf
Finish cleaning the chimney, and then inspect with a mirror from the cleanout. I'd bet that you have a restricted flue. When you say 6", do you mean round? Is it a masonry with a liner, or a masonry with something like a superflue poured into place? By fireplace, do you mean something like an old Franklin style?
Sorry, I didn't catch the Heatilator link. That unit calls for a 9" round metal flue. Too much air inlet for a 6" flue. Thats gonna smoke.
Sorry, I didn't catch the Heatilator link. That unit calls for a 9" round metal flue. Too much air inlet for a 6" flue. Thats gonna smoke.
On page 4 I read that it calls for a 6" chimney. Or am I misreading that. But regardless I should be able to start a very small fire ( rolled up newspaper ) and have it not smoke. I am going to tie a rope to a block of wood that is just slightly smaller then the chimney and then tie a flashlight to the rope and see what I see.
I found a small mirror and opened the clean out door and took a peek. Its clean all the way to the top. The chimney is like this
https://centurychimney.com/images/masonry_chimney_crown.jpg
https://centurychimney.com/images/masonry_chimney_crown.jpg
shawneyboy
Minister of Fire
If you look on page 5 it looks like you should have a fully lined chim with this unit. I am assuming that is not the case in your application, since you have 2 different appliances using the same flue. Instruction number 5 on page 11 reinforces this by stating to "continue adding chimmney sections until chimney exits roof". By your description this is not what you have. Maybe I am wrong here, but that in and of itself is a major issue that needs to be addressed.
LLigetfa
Minister of Fire
Just to be clear on the terminology between chimney and flue. A single chimney can have more than one flue. Is the fireplace sharing a flue with the boiler or a chimney?
If your house is leaky and you won't fix that, your alternative is to improve the draft on the flue by putting in an insulated liner and/or provide more make-up air to the house. I think your money is best spent sealing up where the warm air is leaking out rather than sealing up where the cold air is leaking in.
If your house is leaky and you won't fix that, your alternative is to improve the draft on the flue by putting in an insulated liner and/or provide more make-up air to the house. I think your money is best spent sealing up where the warm air is leaking out rather than sealing up where the cold air is leaking in.
shawneyboy
Minister of Fire
LLigetfa said:
The way I read what he was saying he has an unlined masonary chimney, one flue, 2 appliances. At least that is how I read it.
shawneyboy said:
Chimney: the structure that you put a flue in to vent gasses/smoke. Right???????
If that description is right. I have a cinder block Chimney with this lining the chimney http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/attachments/8/8497d1219029222-firebrick-flue-hdr-flueliners.jpg and that would be the flue, right? Also the Chimney and Flue stick up above the peak of the roof about 4'.
The size of the flue " if a little small" will be off set by the height. Here's the problem if flue is tall or to large it will either have the weight of the clod air inside or counter flow. being an outside chimney this effects/effect will be worst. Or are you saying that you can't use the upper unit while the lower unit is running?? My biggest concern would be that if the chimney has a liner "clay or other wise". As far as two units in same stack, fired by same fuel is not a huge deal, every farm house in America had a stove in the kitchen and one above it on the second floor with the same stack, I have seen this with four stories, one on every floor. What burned down houses were unlined chimneys, flues where constructed from brick only and the condensation break down and/or a stack fire. This is interesting keep us in the loop. keep throwing in news paper on the upper unit until the stack primes, It could also be under sized, that is just hard to do with some much stack, move the chimney to the center of the house. LOL
bigburner said:
Guys I misspoke with the size of the Clay flue inside the chimney, its 9" I just went down stairs and measured it. I got 6" from the two inlets and just thought everything else was the same.
I am saying that I closed everything on wood boiler in my basement. Then went upstairs and lit a small fire in the fireplace ( paper and some peices of old pine molding) stuff that would take right off and heat fireplace up quick. But smoke will still leak back into the room.
LOL the fireplace is Dead center of the house.
Check over the stove and make sure there isn't a plugged something. overdraft is the norm here not under draft. I would keep adding newspaper only, and see if it will draft, for some reason I though it was out side, inside is better, 9 inch should be good. --- if you unhook the vent connection, on a tall indoor chimney it will usually being drawing with out any fire.
woodchip
Minister of Fire
bigburner said:
If the lower unit runs, and you open the door light the upper unit running on the same chimney you will complete an internal loop with the flue gases from the lower unit trying to come straight out, downstairs, and into the lower unit.
Reminds myself never to visit a house like this without my own carbon monoxide detector.............
bigburner said:
I just hooked the fireplace up yesterday so I know its open and clean.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d90/BeachRoe/5da62546.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d90/BeachRoe/7ec2f5b3.jpg
What are we looking at?? I see to flue collar that has been reduced several inches. and the clearance to combustibles looks like it's zero, UNSAFE. multiple appliances on different floors in the same flue doesn't meet code {one solid fuel appliance per flue}as mentioned in your first post- I was only pointing out in a negative draft chimney system that it has been done for decades.
bigburner said:
I was simply showing the distance the piping went before it entered the Chimney. The flue has been reduced 3". But on page 4 it shows the 2' starter section that is 9" being reduced down to a 6" insulated pipe. The clearance between the two walls is too close for not being insulated pipe. But if I get the draft issue addressed I will then flash the inside of both those walls.
woodchip
Minister of Fire
If I had a system like that, and posted pictures over here, and it was spotted by buildings department (and yes, buildings inspectors do have access to the internet), the inspectors would be round here in a flash and condemn the whole system.
A reduced size horizontal flue will probably never going to draw satisfactorily , it is too close to combustable materials, and two appliances are connected to the same flue on different floors.
Over here, enforcement action would follow were the appliances not decommissioned.
This would take the form of forced entry, removal of the system, a bill for the removal, and a fine of up to £5000.
A reduced size horizontal flue will probably never going to draw satisfactorily , it is too close to combustable materials, and two appliances are connected to the same flue on different floors.
Over here, enforcement action would follow were the appliances not decommissioned.
This would take the form of forced entry, removal of the system, a bill for the removal, and a fine of up to £5000.
woodchip said:
Well thank you CAPTIAN ignorant, apparently you cant read the OP. And its the INTERNET. You dont have a clue where the heck I live..... all I put in my details is the fact I live in Upstate NY.... Thats a pretty large area to cover..... and its nice to see another mindless sheep that does what the government tells them to do. For YEARS AND YEARS it was common practice to have multiple (stoves, ovens) on the same flue. But the government got its fingers in the mix and started to tell you how to run your OWN HOUSE. Every year the Reg's change.... And you know why... because lawmakers have contributers... aka ( people that want to make money) and they voila next year a new reg that states ( dah dah dah). All because someone wanted to make more money.
Ps take an English class
Its people like you that make asking for advice on the internet SUCK.
- Status
Similar threads
