creosote.... at witts end!!!

[ansehnlich1]

dude that smoke coming out your chimney in those pics ain't a good sign. i'm still sayin you ain't burnin hot enough.

i think you're either cutting the air down too far, too soon, or something, or you're not getting that thing hot enough quick enough.

this here is from the Lopi Endeavor manual.....first thing it says is to operate this stove at a high temperature....

Over-Firing the Stove
This stove was designed to operate at a high temperature. But due to differences in vent configuration,
fuel, and draft, this appliance can be operated at an excessive temperature. If the stove top or other area
starts to glow red, you are over-firing the stove. Shut the air control down to low and allow the stove to
cool before proceeding.
Over-firing may lead to damage of plated surfaces. If you are uncertain of over-firing conditions, we
suggest placing a stove thermometer (e.g. Rutland® Model 710) directly over the door on the stove top -
temperatures exceeding 800° are generally considered over-firing and will void the warranty.

start with a clean chimney, then get a stove top thermometer and run that bad boy up to 700 degrees each time you load it before backing the air down.....

see what that does.

 

[marky_mark896]

I thought I'd post here as well. I posted in your other thread that you are burning way too cold. 400*F is too cool. You should allow the stove to go to 650-700, (sometimes I shut the bypass off around 500 or so, but leave the air open full until you get to 650*F), close the air inlet down to all but about 1/8" after the wood is charred, and it'll drop to 550 or so and burn until coals are left. You should be seeing secondary burning until all the wood is coal. Then it'll drop to 400* or lower. Then it's time to break up the coals, and reload.

 

[swestall]

Well, you may not like this idea, but with an outside chimney you might benefit from pulling the liner, wrapping it with wool/foil and then sealing off the top and thimble so you have dead air around it. When creosote is building up it is because of the gasses condensing; which means they are getting too cool on their way up the stack. (BB kind of said that)
If you wrap it and create dead air space, you are going to retain the heat that is going into the stack and hopefully will end up with no creosote formation; which is most difficult on outside stacks.
A temp of 350 on the stack is good. You can also send a bit hotter gas up the flue if you use double wall right off the stove.
Hope this info helps.

 

[chrisman34]

Do you have the optional blower on that stove and if so how long do you wait after start-up to turn it on? The reason I ask is that is burned glaze creosote. Somewhere along the line it is glazing and then burning later.

No I do not have a blower on it. I do however have a large canning pot with water in it. Should I take that off when I relight?

"Either your burning horse sh!t, your wood ain’t seasoned"
That's what everybody says but I am reading between 10 and 20% moisture....no hissing, unusually burns quick, easy to light etc.

Smoke... that was when I wasn't burning quite as hot.... I am burning hotter now (last week) with less smoke....

Since everybody thinks it's my wood I will go to Loewe's and get a couple bundles of that and try it. when I have bought that for camping in the past it was really dry. I don't think it's the wood, it very possibly could be me not burning hot enough, but the dealer keeps saying it should burn clean at a stack of more than 250. I will try some different lighting techniques to get it up there quicker.

 

[marky_mark896]

chrisman34, I think you probably just need to let her burn. My Lopi is cruising along right now with air all but shut off, secondaries going great. Temp above door on stove top 650*F. That's not even close to overfiring.

 

[billb3]

wow
that looks like you live over a laundry and are burning the clothes out of the washer.


if you haven't tried burning something else , go find some pallets or something.
not that I want to blame the wood.
I've burnt some pretty nasty wood and NEVER seen something like that.

 

[chrisman34]

Well, you may not like this idea, but with an outside chimney you might benefit from pulling the liner, wrapping it with wool/foil and then sealing off the top and thimble so you have dead air around it. When creosote is building up it is because of the gasses condensing; which means they are getting too cool on their way up the stack. (BB kind of said that)
If you wrap it and create dead air space, you are going to retain the heat that is going into the stack and hopefully will end up with no creosote formation; which is most difficult on outside stacks.
A temp of 350 on the stack is good. You can also send a bit hotter gas up the flue if you use double wall right off the stove.
Hope this info helps.

The worst of the creosote (the pics) was in the lower inside section...2 cups came from that and 1 cup of dry brown from the top section! Not that a cup of brown is good in a week but a lot better than 2 of the shiny bubble crud. I am thinking about double wall inside though.

 

[marky_mark896]

Yeah, I agree with billb3. My neighbors can't even tell I have a woodburning insert. No smoke is visible. If you're sure about your wood, burn hotter.

 

[RedRanger]

imho not burning hot enough. In the early 80`s we had a drolet wood stove that would give us heat for up to 12 hours. Every second week I had to remove the pipe and the 45 going into the chimney and scrape out the 1/4" cresote (nice shiny stuff) like I see in your pics. That was because of those long,low temperature burns.

In comparison,I did get a lot of cresote a couple weeks back after burning not so great wood in my older PE insert (4months burning),however it was all ash type stuff,no crystal like junk. That`s because even with the fuel not being the best I still keep the temps hot which reduces the burn time to refueling every couple hours or so. A gallon and a half of fine powder after 4 months isn`t good,but that crystal-like stuff is really something to avoid. Burn hotter,much hotter!

 

[colebrookman]

I've always used wood that had dried for a year or more. Last year I got behind and just dropped standing dead trees on to the ground. This past fall I cut and split them and now I'm paying the price. A lot less heat, nice shiny creosote, and even using TSR the stuff is tough to remove. If you can't get a hot burn to keep the creosote away suspect wet wood.

 

[chrisman34]

THANKS for all the replies.... based on all the input I will run it up hotter still, and see if this helps if not I will buy 6 or 8 bundles of wood from Lowes and try that. When I bought that for camping it seemed real dry.

One last question that I am getting conflicting information on..... The bypass damper..... I have been told by the dealer as well as seen posts on here to only open to load wood, clean ash, etc. then close immediately, keeping primary air full open and possibly door cracked until up to temp, becouse it doesn't restrict flow just changes direction. Is this what you guys recommend or should i leave it open during the warm up?

Again thanks and I will try not to bug you guys again for a while!

 

[swestall]

Some dealers say a lot of things which are not based on reality, others tell you what they know from experience. In any event, the advice you are getting here is get that puppy up to 650 and leave it there for a while. Then see what you think.

 

[Robbie]

Don't leave your door open unless your starting your fire and standing right with it.............always think........what if an emergency happened and you HAD to leave the room right then while the doors open ?

You already know all this anyway.....

Robbie

 

[marky_mark896]

I don't close the bypass until the stove gets to at least 500*F. Then secondary burning kicks in and I wait until 600 or more before cutting the air down. You just have to play with it to get a feel for it. I'm still new as well, and I'm just getting the feel for the stove too.

 

[chrisman34]

Don't leave your door open unless your starting your fire and standing right with it.............always think........what if an emergency happened and you HAD to leave the room right then while the doors open ?

You already know all this anyway.....

Robbie

OH TRUST ME I dont like leaving it alone with coal let alone door open LOL!! I have to be about the most paranoid person on here! LOL

 

[jebatty]

I didn't see this in yours or other comments, but if I understand you correctly I see several possibilities:

1) Wood - you say it is dry, but if it isn't, it could be a cause. Split several pieces of each kind from different parts of your stacks and measure interior moisture. If you're only taking surface measurements, that's no good. If wood is not dry in the interior, it will not dry just by setting it inside by the stove for a couple of days -- give it several months. Why not get some really dry firewood from a fellow wood burner who is getting really good burns and see how that goes. That's one way to eliminate the bad wood issue.

2) 8' of black stove pipe + 8' of chimney, 16' total, is marginal, IMO. Other than sealing leak issues, I assume you have installed it correctly with regard to height above the roof; also that you don't have unusual wind conditions which are upsetting draft. You may not be achieving sufficient draft to maintain a good burn. The total chimney install is part of getting a good draft.

3) Is there a blockage in your stove airways? Not sure how to check this, but not impossible.

 

[chrisman34]

I didn't see this in yours or other comments, but if I understand you correctly I see several possibilities:

1) Wood - you say it is dry, but if it isn't, it could be a cause. Split several pieces of each kind from different parts of your stacks and measure interior moisture. If you're only taking surface measurements, that's no good. If wood is not dry in the interior, it will not dry just by setting it inside by the stove for a couple of days -- give it several months. Why not get some really dry firewood from a fellow wood burner who is getting really good burns and see how that goes. That's one way to eliminate the bad wood issue.

2) 8' of black stove pipe + 8' of chimney, 16' total, is marginal, IMO. Other than sealing leak issues, I assume you have installed it correctly with regard to height above the roof; also that you don't have unusual wind conditions which are upsetting draft. You may not be achieving sufficient draft to maintain a good burn. The total chimney install is part of getting a good draft.

3) Is there a blockage in your stove airways? Not sure how to check this, but not impossible.

I just posted in my other thread that got started up again by mistake...that i have come to the conclusion that it is probably the wood..... I can't get a stack temp of much more than 350, and when i look at the smoke...there is nothing at the cap and 5-10 feet away from it it burst into a white stream, my guess is moisture... I am going to struggle threw this year, only burning when I can baby sit it and keep it hot until just coals, and work on better wood over the summer.

THANKS FOR THE REPLIES, and sorry to doubt those that kept saying "its the wood stupid" LOL

 

[Mikeb]

Hey Chrisman,

I too have an Endeavor. Installed it this October. This probably has nothing to do with the creosote issue you're experiencing, but I was wondering, does your endeavor have "legs" or the "pedestal"?

Did you plumb for outside combustion air? I know that when I first installed my stove (w/ pedestal base), I "didn't" bring in outside air for combustion and the stove didn't seem to burn well. After I brought in the combustion air through the bottom of the pedestal, you could see a significant improvement in performance. So, if your stove has the "pedestal base" make sure you bring in fresh air per the installation manual.

If your stove sits on legs, try cracking a window, just for grins, and see what happens. Couldn't hurt.

I didn't have a chance to line myself up with "dry wood" this season (first season with stove). I've had to burn wet wood so far ... since October. Tomarrow I'm cleaning my chimney for the first time. I f I have alot of creosote, I'll let you know.

Luck.

 

[chrisman34]

I have the legs. My house has a lot of drafty sliding glass doors....2 8' and 2 6' doors on the main floor and 2 8'ers in the lower section....all the windows are bad leakers as well. So opening a window wont do a lot. I am going to burn it wide open this season and try to get my wood in shape for next year.

 

[G-rott]

christman34,

I would check the air passages in your stove. When you shut the bypass at low temp the smoke can cool enough in the stove if you have a big pot o' cool water on the stove top.

Take the water off, let the stove get up to temp before closing the bypass. I think you got bad advise from the sales guy.

Read the owners manual for the proper use of the by pass and air controls.

garett

 

[DriftWood]

One last question that I am getting conflicting information on..... The bypass damper..... I have been told by the dealer as well as seen posts on here to only open to load wood, clean ash, etc. then close immediately, keeping primary air full open and possibly door cracked until up to temp, becouse it d oesn't restrict flow just changes direction. Is this what you guys recommend or should i leave it open during the warm up?

Again thanks and I will try not to bug you guys again for a while!

You need to get the secondary air tubes burning the smoke as soon as possible or you are just making creosote.

Every time you open the bypass they stop working you are just making creosote..

Leaving the door open they stop working you are just making creosote. A open door will not allow the pressure difference in the stove to suck air through the secondary air tubes to support secondary combustion.

The same is true for the primary air some what, More primary is less flow out the secondary tubes.

Look in a cool stove to see if the bypass is closing fully , not warped or out of place leaving the by pass open when the rod is in the closed position. Check the baffle brick are not out of place over the secondary air tubes this will cause a bypass.

Get you stove as hot as you can as fast as you can with the bypass closed as fast as possible . Use your driest best small hot burning wood to get up to temp as fast as possible then burn hot.

 

[stephiedoll]

Just a thought. You said you stack your wood under your deck for two years. Maybe there is not enough airflow or sunlight to dry it. Just a thought from a newbe.

 

[chrisman34]

Just a thought. You said you stack your wood under your deck for two years. Maybe there is not enough airflow or sunlight to dry it. Just a thought from a newbe.

I didn't, the previous owner did..... and yes I am finding that what isn't decomposed is very green. At this point I am only burning it hot and open when I am around to watch it. No more load it up and damp it down. Just a couple 3 or so smaller splits and run it about 350 stack to see if it will stay clean that way. I thought the wood was pretty good but the steam from the stack, icicles etc leads me to believe it is bad. I am hoping beyond all hope next season will be better.

Between my fear of running real hot and the fact the wood is green I am just a creosote factory.

 

[BrotherBart]

Between my fear of running real hot...

Like Mike from England's Stove Works told me:

"It won't split down the middle."