creosote build up BK princess

[Lanningjw]

Last night when I got home form a 12 hours shift I had to restart my BKPI. It was no big deal, I have those supercedar fire starter with cedar splits. I let it burn thru this on high until lots of nice hot red coals where laying in the fire box. I then reloaded and stacked the fire box full of splits, Let this burn on high for about 15 minutes and then started to turn the temp down. It was completely shut down on low in 45 minutes. The cat temp gauge was on the high end at about 5 o'clock position. My other temp gauge was showing temps of about 550/600 degrees. This cycle went strong all night with temps around 400 to 500 degrees. When I left at 530 am, after 9 hours of burning the temp was showing 350 degrees, with fuel still in the box.

The temps last night in Minneapolis was around 30 degrees and the house was sitting at 79 degrees. I still have not had to run the fan on the insert. When I took the dog for a walk after shutting her down last night I do notice white smoke smoke coming from the chimney but this is only moisture I think. All in all, I am very happy with the insert.

 

[Chopslide]

thanks everyone that has posted here.... I talked to someone at BK today and the message was burn hotter... good advice seems obvious huh..I have been listening Thanks all...and since the clean I have been doing only that going thru a little more wood but keeping the glass cleen and house warm
I was trying to burn too slow and hoping that the cat would take care of the rest. operator error on my part but I am learning.... learning that every install, stove, house. wood combo is different and I have to best figure out mine. that being said I just cant turn the stove down past 1.5 and must let it rip for a longer time than I have been because I thought I was getting it too hot... The guy at bk said (forgot his name.... my bad) let it romp really hard and assured me that if I can burn it up he would send a new one right over...The great news is that I still overnight easily and the house is warm still love this stove and will grow to love it more when it gets below 0 so i can really let it rip...
What kind of wood are you burning lanning? sounds like it is working well

 

[53flyer]

I talked to someone at BK today and the message was burn hotter... good advice seems obvious huh..I have been listening Thanks all...and since the clean I have been doing only that going thru a little more wood but keeping the glass cleen and house warm...I just cant turn the stove down past 1.5 and must let it rip for a longer time than I have been because I thought I was getting it too hot... The guy at bk said (forgot his name.... my bad) let it romp really hard and assured me that if I can burn it up he would send a new one right over...The great news is that I still overnight easily and the house is warm still love this stove and will grow to love it more when it gets below 0 so i can really let it rip...

Chop- It certainly still seems a bit odd because according to the below posts you seemed to be doing most things per the manual (and in line with what others were instructing to check/do) and still getting smoke. If you continue to have problems the cat itself (or the gasket) has to come into question right? If you continue to have problems what did BK say to do? Any mention of the possibility (however remote) of a bad cat? Keep us posted.

Post 21- “started new fire…about halfway into the active zone on thermo closed bypass tstat on 3 let it rip for a half hour mabe more.. cat thermo is pegged.. climbed ladder to check stack and smoke…. not alot but smoking a little. Turned it down to 2.5 and waited 20 minutes or so checked again and still smokin a little
I am burning mostly dougfir that was standing dead 2yrs back split and stacked 2yrs ago reading something like 14% on the meter.”
Post 33- “fire today is 4hrs old mostly in coals now and I still have smoke. I've been running pretty hot all day never below the normal range on the tstat and still not able to get clean exaust”
Post 37- “I am loading it up but burning on a high setting (3 mostly yesterday) so it is going thru the wood much faster. if I load on active coals and leave bypass open to “burn off the crap” it gets really hot really fast so I have been letting the thermo get to the middle of the active zone and closing bypass (pushing it all the way to lock…. thanks mike I caught that in an earlier post)
If the cat is engaged when I reload I shut the bypass right after loading as per the manual
I have been burning doug fir and larch since the clean yesterday very old dry…. to the point where it barely reads on the meter.”
Post 43- “still seeing smoke (small amount) thru all stages of my burn cycle”

 

[Lanningjw]

Chopslide, I got up on the roof and cleaned my SS liner and cap yesterday afternoon. The cap is the open kind and and yes it had black corn flakes on it, easy to remove. I also had some corn flakes down the liner for 3 feet, they were not to bad. After 5 weeks of burning on as low as the t-stat. I had about a cup and a half of the black stuff. Seems to only be forming on the last 3 feet of the liner, I guess that's were it gets cold as it goes Thu the brick chimney from the roof line. On the stove end it was so simple to clean this insert, open the by-pass and the crap falls down. Most of the crap was hung up on a ridge in the stove where the by-pass plate comes down, I just fingered it out into the box.

I got the wood I am burning from a house that had a bank foreclosure this summer. It was stacked in a wood shed next to the house. Mostly ash, what ever it is its old and dry stuff. Its not super hard wood but it super dry stuff. Seems that dry wood is the key to this cat stove, I see it mentioned over and over again. Kris, at BK HQ said if its wet or green burn it on a higher t-stat and its all good.

One thing I don't see mentioned is that by burning a cat stove we are putting less smoke pollutions in the environment compared to a secondary burn tube stove. Isn't that a important consideration! That makes me happy!
Jim

 

[mellow]

One thing I don't see mentioned is that by burning a cat stove we are putting less smoke pollutions in the environment compared to a secondary burn tube stove. Isn't that a important consideration! That makes me happy!
Jim

You really are going to open the floodgates with a comment like that, I agree that CAT's burn efficient, but more efficient than a secondary burn stove I would have to see numbers to prove that. Most secondary burners will see heat waves or white whispy smoke just like you see with your cat stove with very little creosote build up, so in my mind that makes the two on par with each other when it comes to smoke pollution.

 

[Wet1]

Take a look at the efficiency numbers provided by the EPA, both the old generic numbers and the more recent LHV numbers. I know the LHV numbers on the BK cat stoves are around 92%. What about the non cats? Most of the non cats are lucky if they break 80%... and very few will hit 81%.

With that said, I will admit the cat stoves will slowly drop off with time as the cat starts to go bad, but at that point the cat needs to be changed anyway.

 

[drumbum]

I think a better comparison for clean burning would be gph numbers. Englander 30 was tested at 1.63 grams per hour.

 

[Chopslide]

53. Bk said that if I have more problems call back anytime and they will do anything they can to help. I think my differences from others burning BKs stem from my flue set up
pretty tall with older double wall,,, pretty hard to keep it warm all the way up so i am cooling as I go thru the roof and my creosote build up was right at the top of the flue
I am going to take out the screen from the cap and continue to burn harder and see how it goes but it think bk will stand behind their stove 100% if I continue to have problems
I really dont have the money or desire to replace the flue at this point but mabe next year..
Lanning I know you have been burning on low from earlier posts and was interested to hear your cleaning story..and about your wood that really helps thanks for that post
as far as Efficiency numbers my research before buying this stove put most of the top end cat and non cat stoves pretty close and probably has more to do with how you burn your particular setup and the fuel more than anything else.... I am living proof you can take a very efficient stove and burn it poorly to change results

 

[bluefrier]

I'm not so sure that cat users are polluting less than non-cat users. I've never burned or owned a cat stove and I'm sure if I own one I would use dry wood and burn mostly smoke free. However, I've seen two cat stoves in action and both were emitting visible smoke from the chimney (in CAT mode). A stove is only going to be as efficient as the operator and fuel being used.

 

[53flyer]

53. Bk said that if I have more problems call back anytime and they will do anything they can to help. I think my differences from others burning BKs stem from my flue set up
pretty tall with older double wall,,, pretty hard to keep it warm all the way up so i am cooling as I go thru the roof and my creosote build up was right at the top of the flue

I'm a little confused by that. Double wall is supposed to keep the pipe warmer though right? So shouldn't your dble wall pipe be helping to increase draft and reduce creosote? I'm pretty sure I remember a few people with BK's mentioning they had singe wall and didn't have the issues you've been having with your new stove.

The reason I was/am still hesitant irt thinking your problem is fixed relates back to the poor burns you seem to still be continuing to get even though it sounds like you were using (or had begun using) the correct methods. Unless I'm mistaken it sounds like your having to burn the stove hotter than you should have to which sort of defeats the cats purpose of longer slow burns. I'm sure BK will stand behind their stoves. I'm just really interested in learning what the root causes of your issues were but that won't really be known until you can identify and change an issue that causes you to begin getting the types of burns other BK owners routinely get. If nothing can be identified that causes that to happen wouldn't it seem like a bad catalytic (or seal) would be possible?

 

[SolarAndWood]

Seems that dry wood is the key to this cat stove, I see it mentioned over and over again. Kris, at BK HQ said if its wet or green burn it on a higher t-stat and its all good.

That has been my experience as well. When burning the good and dry stuff, I have no problem running low. But, when burning the multitudes of cut offs/unstackables from this spring/summers processing that aren't really dry, I have to run at 2.5 to keep the cat well into the active zone for the duration of the burn.

 

[fdegree]

But, when burning the multitudes of cut offs/unstackables from this spring/summers processing that aren't really dry, I have to run at 2.5 to keep the cat well into the active zone for the duration of the burn.

Question from someone with absolutely no experience...but considering a BK King for next year.

Does this mean the best way to operate this stove, regardless of wood quality, is to run the thermometer at least 1/2 way up into the active zone at all times?

 

[SolarAndWood]

It depends on how much heat you are looking for. Running with the thermometer 1/2 way up is putting out a lot of heat especially with the fans on. It is not required to run it that hot to burn clean. With the exception of a few days where it had been windy with lows in the high teens and highs in the low 30s with little solar gain, I usually run it in the lower end of the active range. The large firebox and wide range of heat output gives you a lot of flexibility.

 

[stefanlofgren]

Same story as below. Got my princess this summer. Fired her up in October when it started getting cold enough. She worked great with burn times of 12-18 hours all the time. About 50 days after running it every day (on 1-1.5) smoke would pour out of the door when I refilled the firebox. I let the fire go out. I tapped the chimney and I heard the familiar sound of creosote falling down the chimney. I noticed that the cat wasn't seating at all because of all the creosote that was piling up inside the stove that fell down the chimney. I cleaned that out as best I could. Fired her up. She began to draw air in correctly and the smoke wasn't pouring out the door. However, now, about 10-15 days after I cleaned the cat out, the smoke is pouring out the door again, and the cat is still seating properly. Just today, I noticed smoke pouring out of the fitting where it goes into the ceiling box. The cap must be clogged. So I'll look tomorrow in the light and try to clean it out.

However, a question remains. I admit to probably using some very poor burning practices. Turning it down to 1 too soon. We live in a super-super insulated house of about 1500 ft3. Letting her rip as high as two isn't an option! I think that our wood MUST be wet. Indeed any wood left out in western Washington state in the winter must have a very high moisture content, even for seasoned wood cut, split, and stacked two years ago.

I have had the stove ripping 3/4 on the thermometer, with the cat engaged, and there has always been a large volume of smoke coming from the chimney. So I must be doing something wrong or have a defective part. Comments?

 

[North of 60]

Im on year 5. All pine and spruce. Well seasoned. Once a year cleaning to do due-diligence. Light grey ash is all I get. Our shoulder seasons are long so lots of 1.5 settings. always AFTER 15-20 HIGH BURN. open windows, DURING THIS TIME to deal with the issue. Wood M/C 15% or less. Hope this helps.



P.S. Contact fattyfat1 as he lives in your area reguarding wood quality. Do you have a properly sealed chimney to stop a cooling affect? Smoke should not come out of your support box. Dilution air could be entering there and causing your problem along with or without the wood.

 

[Chopslide]

Stefan,since the original post I have been burning Quite a bit higher and having much better results. I have kept the glass clean for a couple weeks and there is definitley a connection with dirty glass and poor burning I think my original problem was turning down tstat to soon and not really ripping the stove for a while after loading. I thought I was burning hot at the start of a burn cycle but cured some paint just below the ceiling box on new stovepipe just last week so I was not burning nearly as hot as I thought.... our symptoms seem very close and will be interesting to see what works out... please keep me posted to any new fixes that you come up with. I also see more smoke than I expect when the fire is well established which has me wondering???
a couple questions
1. what kind of flue setup do you have?

2.Has your glass been getting black?

North, what kind of burntimes are you getting with pine and spruce? There is a ton of that kind of wood around here.....for scrounging

 

[North of 60]

North, what kind of burntimes are you getting with pine and spruce? There is a ton of that kind of wood around here.....for scrounging

10-12 hrs in the winter when it drops in the -20s°C . Less when it gets colder and more, obviously when warmer. My burn times drop 2hrs with spruce compared to pine.