Creosote during first cleaning?

[ramdez]

about half way through the winter last year i got a harman p61a and love it. i burned 2 tons of pellets and then did my first thorough cleaning. I noticed that at the end of my vent pipe outside there was some thing black sticky stuff. also around my ash bin there was some more. i can get it off, but i have to scrub hard. i burned 1 ton of barefoots and another brand from woodpellets.com . the stove runs great and i'm very anal about cleaning the burn pot. perhaps sometimes it will go a little too long before i scrape out the burn pot and some of the ash has built up and has a lazy flame but that only happened about 3 times.

I'm wondering what i have to do now?

 

[smwilliamson]

Slow down your feed rate. You may be pushing unburned pellets over the edge and as they smoulder down below where there is less combustable air, you are getting rich gases exiting the stove, I.e the creosote you are discovering outside and down below. Jmho

 

[mark d fellows]

about half way through the winter last year i got a harman p61a and love it. i burned 2 tons of pellets and then did my first thorough cleaning. I noticed that at the end of my vent pipe outside there was some thing black sticky stuff. also around my ash bin there was some more. i can get it off, but i have to scrub hard. i burned 1 ton of barefoots and another brand from woodpellets.com . the stove runs great and i'm very anal about cleaning the burn pot. perhaps sometimes it will go a little too long before i scrape out the burn pot and some of the ash has built up and has a lazy flame but that only happened about 3 times.

I'm wondering what i have to do now?

I would bet that that creosote came from the wood pellets.com stuff. I had the same problem. A problem I would have in the past when trying say 15 bags of a cheap pellet.. Rather than scrub the creosote, I have found then when you switch to back to a quality pellet, and burn a nice hot fire for an hour, it burns the creosote out.

That is actually what is recommended on a standard wood burning stove. To get a nice hot fire every once in a while with lots of oxygen rather than letting the wood smolder all the time, which coats things with creosote, so that when you do have your first hot fire in a long time, the creosote catches, burns and starts a chimney fire.

Try turning down the feed rate on the pellets, so they burn more completely.

I was manic about cleaning the first year, now I clean it maybe only twice a year, when it gets warm enough to shut the stove off for a few hours. Last winter was a bitter cold, and snowy one.

Mark

 

[vvvv]

i wonder if air from OAK can be humid enuff to affect the burn? depending on weather

 

[mark d fellows]

i wonder if air from OAK can be humid enuff to affect the burn? depending on weather

Interesting. I bet it can. Sometimes it can get pretty dreary out. I know it used to effect how cars ran. A lot of my older street rods would run like crap when it was dreary out in the fall. The advantage to using house air, is it is pre-warmed, and relatively dry all the time.

I know they used to run a duct from the exhaust manifold up to the intake air to preheat the air so the car ran better. Maybe 75 and earlier. Now, I think they just make modifications to the fuel to air ratio via computer. Stoves don't have that luxury.



Mark

 

[smwilliamson]

Also, the tube that extends from the back of the firebox for the air wash system often collects creosote just by its cooler air nature regardless of feed adjustment. Just wanted to add.

 

[ramdez]

sounds great guys thanks. i have just over a ton of these to go thru then i'm going back to barefoots so that should take care of it. i was playing with my feed rate ALOT last winter so maybe that's what added to it too. i now run on the factory recommended (4 i think) but i was playing with it all the way up.. the concept was that if it was self regulating, why not it let it fully regulate. what i found was my place would stay at just about the same temp, but i would go through about 2-3 bags a day instead of 1 so i changed that up. i'll play with my feed rate to get it as low as i can and still maintain the temp. thanks for putting my mind at ease.

** @smwilliamson - the installer told me that when i scrape out the burn pot i should pull my whole fire down into the ash bin then scrape it real good and let it re-light. i don't do it like this, but wouldn't this promote pellets smoldering and creating the problem?

 

[Delta-T]

pulling all the burning pellets out of the pot is totally unnecessary, and certainly could lead to the problem you are seeing. Just take the 15 seconds to scrape under everything in the burnpot (cuz really, you just have to dislodge the tenacious clinkers) and be done with it. No need to pull the ash on the lip out, no need to be overly aggressive. you never want burning pellets in the ash pan.

 

[Don2222]

Hello Mark

Interesting about the OAK, I have a 15 foot run from my pellet stove to the back of my house for my wood pellet stove OAK with a 2" diameter chimney liner. The long run tempers the air and it is pretty dry by the time it gets to the stove, so I have had very good luck in all weather. I also talked to my boiler expert and he recommends more than 10 feet run on a boiler OAK to warm the air. So that must be the best way because no warm room air goes up the chimney!

 

[slls]

i wonder if air from OAK can be humid enuff to affect the burn? depending on weather

Interesting. I bet it can. Sometimes it can get pretty dreary out. I know it used to effect how cars ran. A lot of my older street rods would run like crap when it was dreary out in the fall. The advantage to using house air, is it is pre-warmed, and relatively dry all the time.

I know they used to run a duct from the exhaust manifold up to the intake air to preheat the air so the car ran better. Maybe 75 and earlier. Now, I think they just make modifications to the fuel to air ratio via computer. Stoves don't have that luxury.



Mark

I have yet to see evaporation temperature drop to freeze water by dropping pellets down the shoot.

 

[mark d fellows]

i wonder if air from OAK can be humid enuff to affect the burn? depending on weather

Interesting. I bet it can. Sometimes it can get pretty dreary out. I know it used to effect how cars ran. A lot of my older street rods would run like crap when it was dreary out in the fall. The advantage to using house air, is it is pre-warmed, and relatively dry all the time.

I know they used to run a duct from the exhaust manifold up to the intake air to preheat the air so the car ran better. Maybe 75 and earlier. Now, I think they just make modifications to the fuel to air ratio via computer. Stoves don't have that luxury.



Mark

I have yet to see evaporation temperature drop to freeze water by dropping pellets down the shoot.

So.... you don't think the humidity and temp have anything to do with how the stove burns?

Carburetors of gasoline engines didn't freeze up to my knowledge. If you ran pure Methyl I have seen frost on Carburetors, and injectors, but not with gasoline.

 

[mark d fellows]

you know, now that I think about it, maybe I have seen frost on a gasoline fueled carburetor. I can't remember. Is the evaporation point low enough on gasoline to frost the carburetor?

I know my cars with just a paper air cleaner always ran like crap in the fall when it was misty and damp out.

Sorry, I am getting off subject, but it took me a few minutes to realize your analogy of pellets down a tube. However, it is a little off, as it would be the air coming in the OAK, not the pellets down the shoot.


wood pellets are to stove as gasoline is to fuel injected engine.

you got me though slls!

Mark

 

[slls]

you know, now that I think about it, maybe I have seen frost on a gasoline fueled carburetor. I can't remember. Is the evaporation point low enough on gasoline to frost the carburetor?

I know my cars with just a paper air cleaner always ran like crap in the fall when it was misty and damp out.

Sorry, I am getting off subject, but it took me a few minutes to realize your analogy of pellets down a tube. However, it is a little off, as it would be the air coming in the OAK, not the pellets down the shoot.


wood pellets are to stove as gasoline is to fuel injected engine.

you got me though slls!

Mark

I had one instance of creosote on my exchanger tubes. I had left some pellets in my plastic tub with a cover all summer in the house. When I burned them the fire was not normal, too small. I then figured they absorbed moisture through the summer. When I checked the exchanger tubes they were all sticky, never had that happen before or after. I say keep your pellets dry. This year the pellets I had left over I put in the bag sealed it and put bag with my other pellets and sealed the cover with tape. They are stored in my garage.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

take a good close look at gaskets on the ash drawer, you may be geting some air in through an ash pan leak , may not seem apparant except to a seasoned pro with experience with the model. ive learned through hours on end staring at fire (what a great job!!) what it looks like in our units and ive seen shellacking from this when ive made pans leak to see the results.

just a possibility

 

[smwilliamson]

** @smwilliamson - the installer told me that when i scrape out the burn pot i should pull my whole fire down into the ash bin then scrape it real good and let it re-light. i don't do it like this, but wouldn't this promote pellets smoldering and creating the problem?

Yes, this is your problem. Bad installer...bad. Give him a call and ask him to come over and clean up the mess he made ;-) It happens, now you know. Thanks for contributing!