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Current conditions exploit the shortcomings of my NC30

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by mywaynow, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. mywaynow

    mywaynow Minister of Fire

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    Dealing with 10-15 overnights and 20s during the day in my area. I just can't get the 30 to keep up. It seems the biggest problem is coaling levels that result from overfeeding. I miss my old Defiant and have been searching for another for weeks now. The 30 is eating just as much wood in these temps as the VC did, but does not put out nearly the amount of heat. I wanted to keep the Defiant to swap out the stoves when the real cold temps came to roost, but sold it when I got tired of moving it from here to there.

    The house is a Cape and the sq ft is well under the 2200 that the 30 is rated for. I am also watching for a f600 or 5700 to combat this scenario. Cold won't last forever, so we will just keep baking foods to help the temps.

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  2. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    I feel for you and the coaling issue As I have ran into that issue also.

    One guy said load smaller splits that will get you more surface area and more air spaces between the splits.

    I think the main issue is that the old stove would burn hotter more easily. By having a higher stove temp that will propel the heat up into your upper levels of your house thus heating your upstairs better.

    If your not getting the NC-30 stove top temps to like 750-800 you might try the smaller splits more of them idea. Then the NC-30 will operate more like the older stove you had.

    As its a simple equation a load of wood has a certain amount of BTU's. But getting the heat to shoot up stairs for you the way your house is laid out is a function of temperature difference potential. The NC-30 is a highly efficient stove and will get you most the heat out of that load of wood. But make sure your wood is good and dried.

    Did you ever get the damper installed? Being a basement install I bet you have a very tall flue and that points to too much draft cause too much air flow thru the stove and cooler stove top temps.
  3. Jack Fate

    Jack Fate Feeling the Heat

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    You getting a lot of wind there ? Thats when things get mean . I got 2 stoves & been going back and forth last few days . Here the wind is my deciding factor. Or problem!

    Thanks for the input on the nc 30 it was on my short list
  4. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    My summit wont heat like my nashua and I did not have the coaling issue with the old stove either, I think my results between my old stove and my new one is exactly like yours for the most part. I am lucky the summit will heat the house cause its all I have.
  5. Kaptain

    Kaptain Member

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    How thick is your ash bed? Prior to this cold snap I quickly realized that I had too many ashes in there which would insulate the coals and prevent them from burning down as quick.

    I emptied as much as I could the past two days and I'm seeing much better results now.
  6. mywaynow

    mywaynow Minister of Fire

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    I am getting top temps that are fine. I have to run the main at 50% to keep her in check. Top temps are 700 if I get the mix right. Problem is that even at 700 the stove does not radiate heat like the VC did. Stack hieght is 21 feet of straight vertical. As far as ash/coal, I have been keeping that in check. The ash can is getting about 2 gallons of coal/ash mix when I do empty it. That is only a few days though. I think the stove runs as it should, but I simply overestimated its' ability. If temps are over 35, it is fine. Either I will find another to replace her, or I may finally get the family room add-on done, and that will get its' own stove; Oslo. Those two would certainly do the trick.
  7. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    I would hate to spend the money but I would like to have something that put out more heat, it would have to be a six inch chimney though.
  8. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    I can get my stove top to 700 with my air almost all the way shut. You having to have your air half way open means your flushing more heat up the flue. Air flow thru the stove is increased.

    You might take a stove pipe temp reading about 18" up and see what its is when your running at 700 stove top temp.

    If you load small splits your might be able to shut your air down to like 25 % open and that way, less air flow thru the stove means less heat flushed up the flue.

    If I am not mistaken Old Spark was able to get his stove top temp another 100 deg by closing his manual pipe damper a 1/4 turn.

    Better heat radiation is an interesting thing I read an old post about it but dont remember who posted it. I think you have a good point there. But I dont think heat radiation will be a factor for the upstairs, thats more convection or air flow heat.

    Having to have your air open 50% of the way points to wood thats maybe a hair bit too much moisture.
  9. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    The coaling issues seems more of a wood issue than anything unless you are reloading the stove when the temps are still 400+ degrees.

    But, the old Defiant is a bigger stove. So, it will pump out more heat. I came from the old Vigilant and that is a good comparison between the stoves.

    I don't see how the 30 is eating just as much as the Defiant. The Defiant holds more than the 30. The Vigilant holds as much, or more than the 30. So, your burn times must be a lot shorter with the 30 than it was on the Defiant. Which means you must be reloading at a higher temp, which means you will have coaling problems.
    Like I have mentioned a thousand times, sq footage rating is useless. I suspect your insulation is an issue.

    You will not notice much of a difference with an F600. I run a modern Defiant which is about the same size, or a little larger, than the F600. That size stove will heat about the same as the 30. The 5700 is a steel stove that is technically smaller than the 30. So, you will not notice more heat output.

    Your options:
    • Insulate
    • Install a second stove
    • Find an old defiant and go back to the old stove
    • Go with a 4+ cu ft stove.
  10. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    You need better wood. I can get 800 when the air is nearly shut down. This is why your coaling is high and why your burn times are shorter.
    n3pro and Huntindog1 like this.
  11. DTrain

    DTrain Member

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    Im in Mass. and have the exact situation. Glad you posted it. I have been loading larger splits because I've been to lazy to half them. I posted not too long ago about nice long burns, nice and hot. And that was with about 8 splits that were smaller, and have been going with 3 or 4 big splits. Stove burns, temps start to drop and I can't stick anything else in because of huge pile of coal. My oak is a season short of optimum dryness and as contributors have said that is also a problem with coaling. I emptied my ash box below the grate this morning, hopefully that will allow the coals to burn better as someone here suggested. My air is at half and am running about 400 which is what she usually runs at. My stove top thermometer not very accurate, I think it's actually hotter. The flue thermometer is a shade over 400. It's 6F here right now. I think I'll need to reload around 11:30am. I'll try the small splits and see how that changes things and report back.
  12. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    The real solution is to move the stove out of the basement, but that's another story.
    pen, BrowningBAR and Huntindog1 like this.
  13. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    So are you saying your stove top temp is 400 and your flue is also around 400?

    Splitting that Oak one more time making smaller splits will help if the wood is a little bit too much moisture in it.

    Keep the next load of wood stored by the stove to dry out.
  14. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    I did not realize this was a basement install.
  15. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    Not sure about that, I can hit 700 stove top with the air turned down but still have coaling issues with Oak, thats what oak does, it coals well.
  16. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    Yea if that is the case and the basment is not insulated that the sq foot rating of the stove is gonna be off.
  17. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    This is not a stove issue, this is you asking more of a stove than it is capable of.

    Sort of like buying an f-150 with an 8 foot box, and complaining that it can't be filled to the brim with gravel.

    pen
    Seanm likes this.
  18. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    What temp do you reload at?

    His problem isn't just coaling. It is coaling combined with his air controls. Absolutely no reason to be running the stove at half open and only achieving 700 degree temps. At half open, the 30 should be sitting at 800+ degrees with the firebox looking like a violent train wreck.
  19. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    Check the temp of the soil around your house, amybe you can plant flowers out there this time of the year.;)
  20. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    I agree on the settings, I reload at what ever temp I need to but usually about 3 to 400. Half open and my stove would be more red than it already is.
  21. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    BeGreen,

    Your right about how basements and basement walls suck up alot of the heat. Wood Stock has a page on that.

    http://www.woodstove.com/pages/guidepdfs/BasementInstall.pdf

    My stove is in the basement but I seem to do ok. I was thinking about my situation and a couple thoughts.

    A while back I was looking into the Heat Reflective paints. They have ceramic resins in them that make them reflective to heat radiation.

    I saw some info claiming 60% of the heat loss in a house comes from heat radiation.

    I also read that just having white paint is highly reflective to heat radiation. Same reason people in desert regions wear white clothing.

    Well in my situation I have white paint on the basement block walls and I used a paint that was very high grade for outdoor use.

    I used the outdoor high dollar paint on my basement walls before I knew about the heat radiation reflective type paints.

    Well it turns out that the paint I used claims to be highly durable and long warranty as its has a high level of ceramic resins in it to make it durable.

    So I wonder if my white walls in the basement and the paint I used make my walls highly reflective to heat radiation which is said that heat radiation is 60% of heat loss in homes. Plus most the heat from my stove is the heat radiation type.

    So some of you guys with basement installs something to think about.
  22. DTrain

    DTrain Member

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    Yep. Is that screwy? The flue thermometer is on a horizontal pipe as it is a rear exit and then up the natural fire place chimney. It's about 12" out from the flue and sits on the Tee. I just turned the air down to 1/4 see how'd she react, and I see stove temp 425F and flue is at 350F. What d'ya think?
  23. DTrain

    DTrain Member

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    The pipe thermometer says that's in the good area. Orange range on the dial.
  24. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    Thats the way it should react, you turned down the air flow thru the stove and now your stove top is hotter and the pipe is cooler meaning less heat up the flue.
  25. leeave96

    leeave96 Minister of Fire

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    +1

    Totally agree. When I have coaling - it's because I've got higher moisture content in the wood or I'm burning locust. Our 30 is blasting out so much heat that we burn the wood east/west to limit the amount of wood in the stove and slow down the burn. If I pull the damper lever spring tip flush with the ash lip, we get plenty of heat. If I want to open my old basement door and get some heat in there and maintain upstairs temps, I can pull the damper handle spring half way out and the stove pumps out much more heat. If I pull the damper spring to where it if fully past he ash lip, things heat-up fast and uncomfortable is the word of the day.

    Don't underestimate the heating power of the 30 - with good seasoned wood.

    Good luck,
    Bill
    Huntindog1 likes this.

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