Cutting wood road side ?

[polaris]

I too own land in several areas and It seems urban folks see a 100 or so acres and can't imagine anyone other than the government really owns it or cares about it. I have destroyed a couple of deer stands that took a lot of work to build. If they had asked me to hunt I probably would have allowed it. As has been stated before somebody owns that land.

 

[jdemaris]

I do not dispute that out in the sticks that some roads and right of ways cross private land. But in my neck of the woods, the towns and state are the majority land holders.

It has nothing to do with "being out in the sticks" or not. More to do with when it was done, and what the comprehensive plan is. Most towns that I know off do not want owership of roads. Why own when you can use it anyway, and let others pay the taxes? On the other hand, county roads are sometimes owned, and state roads are always owned, in my area.

I've met with highway superintendents, county road supervisors, and several town attorneys who did NOT know who owned the roads are were clueless in regard to the legal issues. It tends to be something that is often taken for granted until a lawsuit pops up. Most of the USA is based on old English Law with some ammendments, when it comes to property ownership. Easiest way to check is the good-old tax bill. If the road by you is town owned, then you're not paying taxes on it. In many parts of Michigan, even when you own a road, you still get a tax break since the reasoning is - even though you own it, you cannot use it for much with a town highway running over it.

If you live in an area, or town, that is only 60 years old - I know nothing about it. Never lived anwhere in my life like that. My town was incorporated 1797. The place I was born in, in New Jersey was incorporated 1820.

 

[backpack09]

Ahh, sorry, MY parcel was cut out 60 years ago. The Town itself broke from the the town to the north of us 100 years ago, and well, this is Massachusetts... the pilgrims lived right down the road.

But beyond that... ALL of the subdivisions I have designed or worked on have (eventually) been taken over by the towns.

As I said, I can only speak the areas I know and am familiar with... not generalized statements across the country as you are making.

 

[mikeathens]

I have a power line right of way, phone right of way, and township road right of way on my 85 acre parcel. NO ONE has ANY right to steal wood from me. I use those downed trees for lumber or firewood. My neighbor owns 150+ acres around me and has had a couple very nice oaks and maples blow down. Very convenient along the road, so I asked, and he said have at it. I have deer poachers up and down the road every now and then. I don't see how this is any different.

 

[jdemaris]

Ahh, sorry, MY parcel was cut out 60 years ago. The Town itself broke from the the town to the north of us 100 years ago, and well, this is Massachusetts... the pilgrims lived right down the road.

But beyond that... ALL of the subdivisions I have designed or worked on have (eventually) been taken over by the towns.

As I said, I can only speak the areas I know and am familiar with... not generalized statements across the country as you are making.

If you live in an urban area that has sewer lines, water lines, gas lines, etc. buried all along the roads, they'd probably need ownership to avoid future conflicts. In my area, a general right-of-way for a public highway does not grant those rights. In fact, most older right-of-ways give the public the right of use "over" a property. That kind of negates any digging rights. Utility companies have their own right-of-ways, and they are negotiated. At the moment, Verizon is threatening to sue me for cutting an underground phone line the was buried 12" deep, out in the middle of one of my farm fields. They don't have a legal right to stand on, but they are used to bullying and scaring people.

There have been several cities/towns in my area that have recently installed new sewer and water lines. It was done one of two ways. They offered to buy right-of-ways from property owners. If they refused, the towns simply took the land by "quick take" eminent domain.

 

[the_dude]

Well you guys talked me out of road side cutting real fast. I guess it was a bad idea .

I think you guys are being kinda harsh. Things must be diffident in other parts of the country. Shot ? I dont think there are to many hillbillys around here. We have lots of large lots with homes , there are power lines, gaslines and vacant land owned by Developers that are no where to be found and could care less about downed fire wood . I thought a little clean up would be in order. I have lots of land to cut trees from It just seems wast full when there are so many rotting trees every where. You guys could stand down Put your guns away your wood is safe from me . Thanks for your thoughts

If properties owners truly could care less about downed firewood, why don't you ask? Did it honestly take strangers on the internet to convince you this was wrong? Also, you don't think there are many hillbillys around you. Are you including in your hillbilly count those that trespass and steal for firewood?

 

[GKG-MO]

I THINK NATIVE AMERICANS SAY NO ONE CAN OWN THE LAND WE ARE ONLY CARE TAKERS. BUT THE WHITEMAN IS A TAKER NOT ONLY OF LAND BUT OTHER COUNTRYS RESORCES.
STICK THAT IN YOU'RE STOVE AND SMOKE IT..................

The white man has the same philosophy.......

Don't pay your taxes for a couple years and see if you REALLY "own" your land!

 

[Risser09]

I think you guys are being kinda harsh.

I don't see it that way. Either you own something, or you don't. When you don't, ask before doing anything on someone else's property. Taxes and insurance on owning property are enough of a penalty of ownership.

It's a sore point with me since I've lived in rural areas my entire life and own many woodlots - some 1000 miles from where I live.

In the past 10 years - here are few things that happened to my own properties.

Jefferson County New York - a logger, with his chainsaw and bulldozer, built a road through the middle of my 100 acre woods - wide enough to drive his log-carrying tractor-trailer through. I got the state police involved, and he got arrested. His main argument was - he built me a free road and improved my property for me.

Jefferson County, New York -another wood lot and swamp I own - 50 acres in all, adjacent to State forest. My family and I drove up to go camping on our property. Got there and found a man and his two teenage sons cutting large trees down for firewood (all ours). They had also built a large tree-stand for deer hunting. So, I confronted him. He told me he had thought it was State land and didn't realize it was privately owned. Funny thing is - even if it WAS State land, it's still not legal to go in and cut.

Otsego County, New York - (at my farm).

Town of Worcester work crew illegally widened the dirt road that cuts through my property. Cut down some 100 year-old hard maples and let town workers take the wood home. I got all the wood back and put the road back to where it was. Since then, the town has threatened to take my land by Eminent Domain.

Farm land I own not in sight of my home. I drove by and found a crew, with Bobcat loaders, dump trucks, and a backhoe -removing stone walls from my property that had been built in the early 1800s. Why? Because this type of field-stone has become valuable. Their argument? Nobody seemed to be using the land for anything.

Hamilton County, NY - Woodland I own in the Adirondack mountains. So far, twice loggers have gone in and stolen trees. Never caught them yet.

Presque Isle Co., Michigan - half a wood lot I own (red pine) was clear-cut, all wood taken. The guy got caught and got fined a couple of hundred dollars.

Look at you, Mr. Hot Shot with all his land. You should learn to share the wealth with us poor folk!

Seriously though, I couldn't agree with you more. My family owns(ed) 100+ acre wooded properties with ponds/lakes etc. It becomes a royal PITA when self-entitled people feel they have the right to fish/hunt/trap (or in this case cut firewood) whenever/wherever they want. Kinda makes ya feel real chitty inside after spending so many hours painting and hanging bright fluorescent signs that say PRIVATE PROPERTY on every damn tree. I guess some parents just can't teach their children to respect other people's property.

 

[sapratt]

Maybe some high voltage electric fence will keep them out.

 

[jdemaris]

Maybe some high voltage electric fence will keep them out.

I wish it worked that way. I've got land up in Jefferson County NY that gets driven through, all winter and summer by four wheeled ATVs and snowmobiles. I was told by my insurance agent that - if I fence it - and someone crashes into the fence and gets hurt - I'm liable, regardless of how many posted signs I have.

 

[Tony H]

Maybe some high voltage electric fence will keep them out.

I wish it worked that way. I've got land up in Jefferson County NY that gets driven through, all winter and summer by four wheeled ATVs and snowmobiles. I was told by my insurance agent that - if I fence it - and someone crashes into the fence and gets hurt - I'm liable, regardless of how many posted signs I have.

You could do what a buddy of mine did and take and push / dump dirt push over (not cut) a tree or put some brush over the trail at places near where it enters the property. The lawyer said as long as it's not a "man-made" structure you are unlikely to be sued
anyway it stopped the 4 wheelers from driving thru the area with no legal problems.

 

[wellbuilt home]

I think you guys are being kinda harsh.

I don't see it that way. Either you own something, or you don't. When you don't, ask before doing anything on someone else's property. Taxes and insurance on owning property are enough of a penalty of ownership.

It's a sore point with me since I've lived in rural areas my entire life and own many woodlots - some 1000 miles from where I live.

In the past 10 years - here are few things that happened to my own properties.

Jefferson County New York - a logger, with his chainsaw and bulldozer, built a road through the middle of my 100 acre woods - wide enough to drive his log-carrying tractor-trailer through. I got the state police involved, and he got arrested. His main argument was - he built me a free road and improved my property for me.

Jefferson County, New York -another wood lot and swamp I own - 50 acres in all, adjacent to State forest. My family and I drove up to go camping on our property. Got there and found a man and his two teenage sons cutting large trees down for firewood (all ours). They had also built a large tree-stand for deer hunting. So, I confronted him. He told me he had thought it was State land and didn't realize it was privately owned. Funny thing is - even if it WAS State land, it's still not legal to go in and cut.

Otsego County, New York - (at my farm).

Town of Worcester work crew illegally widened the dirt road that cuts through my property. Cut down some 100 year-old hard maples and let town workers take the wood home. I got all the wood back and put the road back to where it was. Since then, the town has threatened to take my land by Eminent Domain.

Farm land I own not in sight of my home. I drove by and found a crew, with Bobcat loaders, dump trucks, and a backhoe -removing stone walls from my property that had been built in the early 1800s. Why? Because this type of field-stone has become valuable. Their argument? Nobody seemed to be using the land for anything.

Hamilton County, NY - Woodland I own in the Adirondack mountains. So far, twice loggers have gone in and stolen trees. Never caught them yet.

Presque Isle Co., Michigan - half a wood lot I own (red pine) was clear-cut, all wood taken. The guy got caught and got fined a couple of hundred dollars.

I under stand where you are coming from . We are talking about two different things here . Your property is getting defaced . I would never dream of running my loader into someones property . I'm not leaving any trace , and in 4 years the wood will be dust . You guys have turned my way of thinking and I'm sorry i brought it up. John I did find some good 18" white oak to day to top off my pile . The people where happy to get ride of it .

 

[leaf4952]

I think you guys are being kinda harsh.

I don't see it that way. Either you own something, or you don't. When you don't, ask before doing anything on someone else's property. Taxes and insurance on owning property are enough of a penalty of ownership.

It's a sore point with me since I've lived in rural areas my entire life and own many woodlots - some 1000 miles from where I live.

In the past 10 years - here are few things that happened to my own properties.

Jefferson County New York - a logger, with his chainsaw and bulldozer, built a road through the middle of my 100 acre woods - wide enough to drive his log-carrying tractor-trailer through. I got the state police involved, and he got arrested. His main argument was - he built me a free road and improved my property for me.

Jefferson County, New York -another wood lot and swamp I own - 50 acres in all, adjacent to State forest. My family and I drove up to go camping on our property. Got there and found a man and his two teenage sons cutting large trees down for firewood (all ours). They had also built a large tree-stand for deer hunting. So, I confronted him. He told me he had thought it was State land and didn't realize it was privately owned. Funny thing is - even if it WAS State land, it's still not legal to go in and cut.

Otsego County, New York - (at my farm).

Town of Worcester work crew illegally widened the dirt road that cuts through my property. Cut down some 100 year-old hard maples and let town workers take the wood home. I got all the wood back and put the road back to where it was. Since then, the town has threatened to take my land by Eminent Domain.

Farm land I own not in sight of my home. I drove by and found a crew, with Bobcat loaders, dump trucks, and a backhoe -removing stone walls from my property that had been built in the early 1800s. Why? Because this type of field-stone has become valuable. Their argument? Nobody seemed to be using the land for anything.

Hamilton County, NY - Woodland I own in the Adirondack mountains. So far, twice loggers have gone in and stolen trees. Never caught them yet.

Presque Isle Co., Michigan - half a wood lot I own (red pine) was clear-cut, all wood taken. The guy got caught and got fined a couple of hundred dollars.

SHEEEET ! Man if I was YOU and gone thru all THAT I'd definately be carrying a gun on my property ! and posting alot of no trespassing signs around the perimeters. But ya really can't do that with 100 acres. How bout appointed one trusted local man you'd give favor to (he may use your land for a few very specific things you say are ok) in trade for being a watchdog over your property when you are absent ? That way he'll feel protective over YOUR land cause he's getting something out of it. How's that for an idea ?

 

[CowboyAndy]

My family owns 200 acres of woods, and all the time we will be out cutting and see some stuff that has been recently cut that was not done by us. If we were to catch them, they would probably have a 12 gauge wound to the ass.

 

[firefighterjake]

Maybe some high voltage electric fence will keep them out.

I wish it worked that way. I've got land up in Jefferson County NY that gets driven through, all winter and summer by four wheeled ATVs and snowmobiles. I was told by my insurance agent that - if I fence it - and someone crashes into the fence and gets hurt - I'm liable, regardless of how many posted signs I have.

As an avid ATVer and sledder I have to tell you that it ticks me off to no end when rogue riders blatantly disregard posted land . . . and sometimes even ride right around fences even. To me there are few things worse in terms of discouraging landowners to open up additional trails on their land at a future date . . . rogue riders ruin it for the responsible riders.

On our ATV trail system one landowner has only asked that riders stay out of his gravel pit as this is an active pit and he is concerned about them getting hurt . . . I cannot tell you how many signs have been knocked down, how many times folks have ridden over or around the rocks/wood/gravel we've piled up to block the trail-side entry to the pit and a few years back someone even shot out his bucket loader's windows -- arrgh . . . ticks me off to no end. Sorry . . . just venting. I feel for you.

 

[firefighterjake]

I think you guys are being kinda harsh.

I don't see it that way. Either you own something, or you don't. When you don't, ask before doing anything on someone else's property. Taxes and insurance on owning property are enough of a penalty of ownership.

It's a sore point with me since I've lived in rural areas my entire life and own many woodlots - some 1000 miles from where I live.

In the past 10 years - here are few things that happened to my own properties.

Jefferson County New York - a logger, with his chainsaw and bulldozer, built a road through the middle of my 100 acre woods - wide enough to drive his log-carrying tractor-trailer through. I got the state police involved, and he got arrested. His main argument was - he built me a free road and improved my property for me.

Jefferson County, New York -another wood lot and swamp I own - 50 acres in all, adjacent to State forest. My family and I drove up to go camping on our property. Got there and found a man and his two teenage sons cutting large trees down for firewood (all ours). They had also built a large tree-stand for deer hunting. So, I confronted him. He told me he had thought it was State land and didn't realize it was privately owned. Funny thing is - even if it WAS State land, it's still not legal to go in and cut.

Otsego County, New York - (at my farm).

Town of Worcester work crew illegally widened the dirt road that cuts through my property. Cut down some 100 year-old hard maples and let town workers take the wood home. I got all the wood back and put the road back to where it was. Since then, the town has threatened to take my land by Eminent Domain.

Farm land I own not in sight of my home. I drove by and found a crew, with Bobcat loaders, dump trucks, and a backhoe -removing stone walls from my property that had been built in the early 1800s. Why? Because this type of field-stone has become valuable. Their argument? Nobody seemed to be using the land for anything.

Hamilton County, NY - Woodland I own in the Adirondack mountains. So far, twice loggers have gone in and stolen trees. Never caught them yet.

Presque Isle Co., Michigan - half a wood lot I own (red pine) was clear-cut, all wood taken. The guy got caught and got fined a couple of hundred dollars.

I under stand where you are coming from . We are talking about two different things here . Your property is getting defaced . I would never dream of running my loader into someones property . I'm not leaving any trace , and in 4 years the wood will be dust . You guys have turned my way of thinking and I'm sorry i brought it up. John I did find some good 18" white oak to day to top off my pile . The people where happy to get ride of it .

Wellbuilt . . . there's hope for you yet. Actually, it's encouraging to hear how you have been able to see the other side of things . . . and don't be sorry for bringing up this topic . . . there are a lot of new woodburners and learning what is right and what is wrong when it comes to getting wood is part of the learning curve . . . I would rather you come here and post this thread and learn why taking wood from another person's property is wrong now . . . than to end up on the wrong side of a shotgun or in court at a later date.

And in looking on the positive side . . . it sounds as though you're finding some good sources for free wood by simply asking folks. Good luck with the wood burning.

 

[jdemaris]

How bout appointed one trusted local man you'd give favor to (he may use your land for a few very specific things you say are ok) in trade for being a watchdog over your property when you are absent ? That way he'll feel protective over YOUR land cause he's getting something out of it. How's that for an idea ?

Already did. Not sure about how "trusted" he is, but at this point, I figure it can't hurt. The guy I mentioned, that I caught cutting my trees along with his two teenage kids? Ends up, a year later he bought the 50 arce parcel next to mine - and - he lives in that general area. I'm 200 miles away and don't get there often. I gave him and his kids exclusive rights to hunt deer on my land with the agreement that they cannot cut trees and also - they have "power of me" to throw anyone else off. He's got a camp up there and stays alot in all four seasons - hunting, fishing, ATVing and snowmobiling. I guess - if "you can't beat them", "join them." He's got my phone # and I asked that he call if he ever seens anything funny. Not sure if he ever will, but what the heck. It takes us over four hours, one way to drive there. Since our latest little kid was born, it's just too long a drive for a one-way trip. Subsequently, we haven't been there in two years now. For all I know, it's been clear-cut. We keep it because taxes are very low (unusual for NY) and it's sort of our private wildlife refuge. Loaded with deer, brook trout, frogs, beaver, etc. - that is - unless someone has fished and trapped it out since out last visit. I'll also add, that with t his one particular parcel, my wife and I consider it our "wedding present." Around 15 years ago, when we got married, at home, in our barn - my wife's parents gave us a wedding gift of $10,000.
That because they were so happy we got marrried at home and didn't waste money on a fancy wedding (my 2nd marriage but her 1st). Instead of paying bills, we wanted to buy something that would last awhile. So - we bought this forest on the great "Tug Hill Plateau" of New York for $100 per acre. Pretty good deal - try to find something that cheap now.

Here's some photos. The one photo of the road is the one the logger built illegally. The picture of my 85 diesel Chevy Blazer is one of many such photos of having to drive through newly build beaver ponds on our land. Nice thing about having all diesel trucks is - I don't worry about the ignition getting wet. We've driven in some pretty deep ponds.

The Tug Hill Plateau is kind of an unsual area in New York. Very rural and high - yet since it's huge flat-top plateau, you don't realize how high you are until you get to and end of it and look down. It gets some of the highest snowfall in this part of the country due to lake effect snow from Lake Ontario. A few years back, they had a 12 foot snowstorm that lasted 14 days. Subsequently, it's a big snowmobiling place in the winter, and ATV place in the summer - there are miles and miles of dirt roads going through private, state, county, and federal woodlands.

 

[wellbuilt home]

I think you guys are being kinda harsh.

I don't see it that way. Either you own something, or you don't. When you don't, ask before doing anything on someone else's property. Taxes and insurance on owning property are enough of a penalty of ownership.

It's a sore point with me since I've lived in rural areas my entire life and own many woodlots - some 1000 miles from where I live.

In the past 10 years - here are few things that happened to my own properties.

Jefferson County New York - a logger, with his chainsaw and bulldozer, built a road through the middle of my 100 acre woods - wide enough to drive his log-carrying tractor-trailer through. I got the state police involved, and he got arrested. His main argument was - he built me a free road and improved my property for me.

Jefferson County, New York -another wood lot and swamp I own - 50 acres in all, adjacent to State forest. My family and I drove up to go camping on our property. Got there and found a man and his two teenage sons cutting large trees down for firewood (all ours). They had also built a large tree-stand for deer hunting. So, I confronted him. He told me he had thought it was State land and didn't realize it was privately owned. Funny thing is - even if it WAS State land, it's still not legal to go in and cut.

Otsego County, New York - (at my farm).

Town of Worcester work crew illegally widened the dirt road that cuts through my property. Cut down some 100 year-old hard maples and let town workers take the wood home. I got all the wood back and put the road back to where it was. Since then, the town has threatened to take my land by Eminent Domain.

Farm land I own not in sight of my home. I drove by and found a crew, with Bobcat loaders, dump trucks, and a backhoe -removing stone walls from my property that had been built in the early 1800s. Why? Because this type of field-stone has become valuable. Their argument? Nobody seemed to be using the land for anything.

Hamilton County, NY - Woodland I own in the Adirondack mountains. So far, twice loggers have gone in and stolen trees. Never caught them yet.

Presque Isle Co., Michigan - half a wood lot I own (red pine) was clear-cut, all wood taken. The guy got caught and got fined a couple of hundred dollars.

I under stand where you are coming from . We are talking about two different things here . Your property is getting defaced . I would never dream of running my loader into someones property . I'm not leaving any trace , and in 4 years the wood will be dust . You guys have turned my way of thinking and I'm sorry i brought it up. John I did find some good 18" white oak to day to top off my pile . The people where happy to get ride of it .

Wellbuilt . . . there's hope for you yet. Actually, it's encouraging to hear how you have been able to see the other side of things . . . and don't be sorry for bringing up this topic . . . there are a lot of new woodburners and learning what is right and what is wrong when it comes to getting wood is part of the learning curve . . . I would rather you come here and post this thread and learn why taking wood from another person's property is wrong now . . . than to end up on the wrong side of a shotgun or in court at a later date.

And in looking on the positive side . . . it sounds as though you're finding some good sources for free wood by simply asking folks. Good luck with the wood burning.

Jake thanks for the encouragement I never looked at it that way . and now i do . Its feast or fa min for me when i have wood i just want to get ride of it . When i have t time for it i don't have any wood to split . John