Deciding on a Cat Stove - Progress Hybrid vs BK Princess/Chinook 30

[BurnIt13]

Thank you for those who helped me on another thread decide if I want cat or non-cat for a new house I will be building. After some reading it looks like I want the low and slow type cooking of the cat stove.

I bought and installed an Englander 30 in 2010 and have been enjoying it ever since. I got it because it is a good affordable stove and it fit our very limited budget at the time. In building the new home I can get the stove I want, not the cheapest one I can find.

So with that said...I have some specific questions on these stoves. Yes, they differ greatly in appearance but I'd like to just focus on the performance/function questions for right now.

My house will be a 2000sq.ft. two story with a fairly open floor plan. It will be insulated and sealed to the gills. I will be using an outside air kit and will have about 22ft of double wall chimney pipe plus 5ft of double wall stove pipe. Straight up and out through the interior of the house. I burn with seasoned red oak.

Woodstock Progress Hybrid

• My understanding is that this stove acts more like a cat stove when choked down and more like a secondary stove when burning hot....is this understanding correct? So basically I can get long burn times (low) or massive heat output (high)?
• I have been reading about issues with the screen coming out, problems putting it back in, or clogging up. Has this been resolved? Are there any other known issues that are ongoing?
• I plan to continue cleaning my own chimney. Can this stove be cleaned from the bottom up from within the firebox? If yes, what gets removed?
• I believe I am reading that 12hr burn times are typical. Longer is possible under ideal conditions and shorter if you are running a hotter fire. Is 12hrs about average?
• I read that there are provisions for a cat probe on this stove. Where is it and do I have to crawl behind the stove to see it?
• For people who have this stove....would you buy it again?

Blaze King Princess/Chinook 30

• I plan to continue cleaning my own chimney. Can this stove be cleaned from the bottom up from within the firebox? If yes, what gets removed?
• For people who have this stove...would you buy it again?

Thanks everyone and I look forward to your replies!

 

[HollowHill]

I own a Progress and love it. Would definitely buy it again. I don't have a problem with the screen as far as cleaning it goes. I'm not terribly handy, but have been able to remove and insert the screen with no problems so far. The first time took some figuring out, but after that I've been able to pop it out and back in with minimum effort. Having said that, I hear that they are coming out with a new screen design. And WS will make that screen available to those who have already purchased the Hybrid, just as they are doing with the new cooktop (I will be getting that free!). Any problems encountered with the Hybrid have been addressed quickly and well by WS. I've had 18 - 20 hour burns with the Progress. Because I'm home all day and want a more even heat (and live in a big, drafty, old house), I tend to load 3 - 4 times a day. But, I'm a newbie and I'm sure the veterans do much better than that. I don't have the cat probe so can't comment on that. My chimney has a tee cleanout at the bottom and that is how the chimney sweeps clean it. They do take out the cat (very easy to do and accessible) and run a brush from there (so inside the stove) to the tee (right angle where chimney goes up). Good luck with your selection and I'd be happy to answer any more questions you might have.

 

[Todd]

The best way to clean your chimney from bottom up IMO would be with the Woodstock since it can be vented out the rear. You could install a tee on the back and remove the bottom tee cap when sweeping. You may want to call them and ask about the screen, I know they have been working on a new one but don't know if it's done. As long as you burn dry wood clogging should not be an issue.

Blaze kings have those insane burn times which is great for the shoulder seasons but in the middle of winter you will lose those for the need of more heat. Since they are top vented you will have to remove pipe sections to sweep bottom up, I don't think you could sqweeze a brush past the bypass plate.

 

[BurnIt13]

Hmmmm, I was planning on a top vent for either stove. Using a rear vent would push the stove too far forward into the room. I was planning on going straight up through the house enclosed in a chase.

Since cleaning from inside the stove may be too difficult, I have two options as I see it.
1. Remove a section of stove pipe and clean that way.
2. Install a 90 and go out the side wall to a Tee. Then straight up the exterior.

 

[begreen]

Good question. I'm not sure about the BK. On PE stoves dropping the baffle is an easy process. A bigger priority for me would be having a straight-up - interior - chimney if building new.

What is going to be the primary, non-wood heating system in the house? If it is designed for a super-efficient mini-split heat pump the could be your shoulder season burner.

 

[BurnIt13]

Primary heating (though hopefully seldom used) will be a natural gas fired, forced hot water baseboard. It'll be a direct vent 96% efficient unit. Dropping the baffles on my Englander 30 is also a piece of cake.....would be nice if these stoves were the same.

 

[begreen]

That should be pretty efficient. I wouldn't hesitate to use it, especially in mild weather. Actually with this unit I would probably go for a Woodstock Keystone or the Sirrocco 20 and let the gas furnace supplement on those rare zero degree days if necessary. That would be much more efficient.

Will the boiler also be heating the hot water?

 

[BurnIt13]

Boiler will not be supplying hot water, there will be a hot water on demand unit.

I know when it comes down to btus and heat loss calculations I probably only need a 1.75-2cuft. stove. But I'd rather have more stove than I need and be able to turn it down low. I'm looking at a 3.0cuft firebox, specifically the BK Princess/Chinook30 and the Progress Hybrid.

 

[Highbeam]

Reports from owners tell us that the PH does not burn low and slow. Look at it this way, max burn times are in the 12-16 hour range but the same sized stove from BK can burn 30 hours on low. This tells us, pretty clearly, that the woodstock PH stove is not capable of a low and slow burn. In that smallish house, you would be way better off with a smaller woodstock or a BK.

 

[begreen]

Boiler will not be supplying hot water, there will be a hot water on demand unit.

I know when it comes down to btus and heat loss calculations I probably only need a 1.75-2cuft. stove. But I'd rather have more stove than I need and be able to turn it down low. I'm looking at a 3.0cuft firebox, specifically the BK Princess/Chinook30 and the Progress Hybrid.

It's your home, but this is contradictory. The house is going to be very well insulated. Putting a big stove in a tight environment for the one out of 600 days when it might need 3 cu ft could be like using a Mack truck to get the groceries.

 

[jeff_t]

You might be able to stuff a brush up thru the bypass of a BK, but then all the crap is in the space behind the cat. I don't know if the rods will make the bend, though. That's assuming the Princess is like mine, only smaller.

All I'm gonna say about the BK is that the learning curve is very short. It is super easy to operate. Once you get a feel for where the thermostat needs to be, given the requirements of your home vs. weather conditions, it really is boringly simple. It also responds very quickly to changes in the thermostat. I also found in very windy conditions, it would burn a bit hotter than normal, but nowhere close to anxiety level.

 

[BurnIt13]

It's your home, but this is contradictory. The house is going to be very well insulated. Putting a big stove in a tight environment for the one out of 600 days when it might need 3 cu ft could be like using a Mack truck to get the groceries.

True....and I'm very open to suggestions, but I want reliable 12 hour burn times and don't want to have to find a magic recipe to do so. After 12 hours I want to be able to throw some more wood on, close the door, and enjoy the heat.

It seems to me that cat stoves are a good way to accomplish this. A Chinook 20/Sirocco will do what I'm after? I love soapstone but I need tight rear clearances. The other Woodstock stoves need 18", even with a heat shield. I'm willing to listen...

Please forgive me. I have a PhD in overkill and have always believed bigger is better. I use a Mack truck to commute to work in an office. I use an M1 Abrams to get the groceries.

 

[Highbeam]

Look at the low burn rates for the BK stoves. Given that the low burn output rates among all the BKs is about the same, the only thing you gain by buying their small stoves is the physical size of the thing is smaller.

Get the biggest BK you can fit in the spot, you will gain longer burntimes but maintain the low output. Also, it will be easier to load.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Reports from owners tell us that the PH does not burn low and slow. Look at it this way, max burn times are in the 12-16 hour range but the same sized stove from BK can burn 30 hours on low. This tells us, pretty clearly, that the woodstock PH stove is not capable of a low and slow burn. In that smallish house, you would be way better off with a smaller woodstock or a BK.

Highbeam, you seem to be hung up on this one factor. Why beat it to death? However, just how can we explain why someone has gotten 18-20 hour burns. I've even heard of longer burns. As you well know, burn times are relative. There are just too many factors involved to state that a particular stove will get x number of hours. For example, I've read that the Fireview can't even get a decent 8 hour burn! I've kept that a secret from our Fireview and it knows no better so happily gives us much longer burn times. Of course, it depends upon what wood we fill it with too....

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Hmmmm, I was planning on a top vent for either stove. Using a rear vent would push the stove too far forward into the room. I was planning on going straight up through the house enclosed in a chase.

Since cleaning from inside the stove may be too difficult, I have two options as I see it.
1. Remove a section of stove pipe and clean that way.
2. Install a 90 and go out the side wall to a Tee. Then straight up the exterior.

The Progress can be vented top or rear. As for going through the wall and up the exterior, that is how ours is. Just make sure the horizontal section through the wall has a minimum of 1/4" rise per foot of horizontal. Ours is closer to 1/2" rise and we have no problem.

 

[DexterDay]

WoodStock makes a very nice stove. There is a Fireview on my local CL for $500 (I should buy it!!)!! The Progress Hybrid is a beautiful stove also and has good reviews here. Although for its size of firebox, it burn times seem slightly reduced. But having the secondary air inlet is prob a good cause of that. Any extra air that is uncontrolled will deplete and diminish the load.


But given all the reports from the Aliens (er, I mean BK owners). The Blaze King would get my vote..

I bought an Englander 30-NC last year also... I just ordered the blower yesterday (went the 1st year without to see the difference). But my next woodstove will more than likely be the King.. I think its sexy and it can do 12 hrs on a Hot load. Thats all I would want. 24 hrs is ridiculous! !

All the stoves you listed are quality units.......

You have to have one that you favor? I normally have a favorite already picked when asking for advice or an opinion......

Looking forward to your choice and your install pics... We love pics!

 

[Highbeam]

Highbeam, you seem to be hung up on this one factor. Why beat it to death?

I won't be bullied by a flag waver, woodstock failed to deliver on this stove. Burn time is the #1 important factor for people who use their stove for primary heat. It is of key importance and the stove designers that seem to just throw it away should be ashamed.

Woodstock themselves only rate this stove for a short burntime. Darn low emissions though.

 

[doug60]

What

I won't be bullied by a flag waver, woodstock failed to deliver on this stove. Burn time is the #1 important factor for people who use their stove for primary heat. It is of key importance and the stove designers that seem to just throw it away should be ashamed.

Woodstock themselves only rate this stove for a short burntime. Darn low emissions though.

Getting the stove to burn for 30 hours is cool, but will it through enough heat to keep my house warm? I There is only so many BTU in a pound of wood.
12 / 14 hours between loads seems about right for the shoulder season.
But for colder temps 0 / 20 I would plan on loading more frequently.
Just my opinion .but keeping the house warm is most important to me once you get past 8 /10 hours of burn time. I see nothing to be ashamed of here>

 

[jeff_t]

Getting the stove to burn for 30 hours is cool, but will it through enough heat to keep my house warm? I There is only so many BTU in a pound of wood.
12 / 14 hours between loads seems about right for the shoulder season.
But for colder temps 0 / 20 I would plan on loading more frequently.
Just my opinion .but keeping the house warm is most important to me once you get past 8 /10 hours of burn time. I see nothing to be ashamed of here>

Yeah, my stove is bigger, but my shoulder season loads go 36-48 hours. Warm it up in the evening, shut it down at bedtime, get up and open it up for an hour or two, then shut it down for the day. Repeat. It's kinda like building multiple small fires, only easier.

 

[3fordasho]

I have a PH centrally located in a 1880's 1000 sq ft two story house. (1000ft main floor, ~600ft 2nd). I also have a fireview in a added on room in the back of the house. 90% of the time one or the other stove is enough to heat the house in all but the coldest temps (<10F). The PH repaced a Fireview. My experience with the PH:

Screens- first set fell out multiple times, easy to replace after abit of practice. 2nd set have stayed in place since initial install - they look identical to the first set.

Burn times - same as fireview but more heat and much better light show through the glass.
Burn times might be better if I could run it with the draft closed all the way, if I do I get a slight smoke smell in the house that I never got with the fireview in the exact same spot/flue set up.
I've been working with woodstock on the smell issue and did install a new door gasket but don't think the issue is resolved but I also ran out of burning season soon after I installed the new gasket.

At least one other owner complained about all the ticking / metal expansion noises the PH makes when heating up/cooling down. This is true and due to the type of construction which is different than other woodstock stoves. To be honest this is not an issue for me.

I really like the flue gas path in the PH vs the fireview. In the Fireview when the bypass is open the flue gas/flames have a direct shot right into the chimney - forget this is open and with inlet air too far open you have a blow torch right up the chimney and with in minutes you can have a chimney fire. This does not seem to be possible with the PH due to the path the exhaust makes, bypass open or not.

Bottom line, If I can resolve the slight smoke smell issue I'll be perfectly happy with the PH.

 

[begreen]

Getting the stove to burn for 30 hours is cool, but will it through enough heat to keep my house warm? I There is only so many BTU in a pound of wood.

Those super long burntimes are only for shoulder season burning. In some areas like ours, the shoulder season's are long and deep winter is fairly short. In these conditions a long, slow, clean burner is ideal, especially if this is one's sole source of heat. House insulation and ceiling also factor in here. If the house is very well insulated a lower burn may be necessary to avoid overheating the area.

 

[rideau]

Highbeam: #1 importance for this person who relies entirely on woodheat is efficiency (conservation, cutting/splitting/stacking, and carrying considerations) combined with hea output and reasonable reload time. what's the big deal about putting a little wood in a stove twice a day?

 

[Highbeam]

what's the big deal about putting a little wood in a stove twice a day?

The big deal is having to put wood in your stove several times a day vs. once a day. Wasted time, wood, and effort.

The PH is a wood hog on low burn, so efficiency is actually terrible. Most stoves and even non-cats are quite efficient at moderate to high burns. If you're always burning the PH at higher outputs then it is a great machine. I don't think that a primary heating stove should be sized so that you need to use the higher output levels all the time.

The problem is that this new stove had so much potential to be a competitor in the cat stove market but it is not up to par. 12 hour burn times are easy from non-cats.

 

[Todd]

I think we need to give the PH a little more time before we call it a inefficient wood hog. I haven't seen enough reviews to make up my mind yet. I'd like to hear from someone who's filling the PH with the max 22" splits consistantly and see what they have to say.

 

[begreen]

Agreed, we have only a half season worth of reports on the stove during an exceptionally mild winter in most areas. More data is needed during some serious cold weather.