Decisions, Decisions, which brand boiler to choose?

[heaterman]

Lot's of "if's" in the build it yourself equation..

Finding, modifying, piping, controlling and insulating 1000 gallons of storage presents a lot of challenges. And don't forget the chimney required for a normal gasser.
It is much simpler and far less time consuming to buy everything in an integrated package that you know will work. (IE: Garn Jr.)
Is time a factor? Is your labor input free or could you be making $$ somewhere else?

A Jr would be $10,995 plus the flue/intake kit ($500), plus the Chemical Treatment program($350?) plus freight ($500?) so you are looking at a package delivered to your door for around $12-12,500.
When I have done the bits and pieces/DIY thing for people the cost is nearly always +/- $1000 of that figure unless they get their 1000 gallons of storage for next to nothing.
You have to remember that if you're going pressurized storage you have to factor in an large expansion tank also....something around 70-100 gallons capacity. Then add in piping, pumps and controls to make it work right......

All I'm saying is be honest about the value of your time and know the true cost of bolting everything together and making it work before you pull the trigger on something.

 

[ewdudley]

Ok does everyone agree with flyingcow that you can build a boiler with storage for about the same price as a Garn? I am not doubting you flyingcow just trying to get a feel for what everyone else thinks.

First you'd have to consider them comparable, and there is plenty of room for debate there, particularly if what you require is a 25 kW boiler with 500 to 750 gallons of storage it's hard to imagine why you'd want a Garn in the first place. But even on a larger scale you can build a system as big with less floor space and a lot less money.

But for myself, even though it didn't take a whole lot of hands-on time, it took a lot of calendar time to work out all the logistics of acquiring and configuring storage, and getting all the parts and pieces together.

 

[Coal Reaper]

i budgeted $11.5k and came in $1000 over when all was said and done. i feel i did a lot for that cost. backhoe rental, boiler room in barn, spray foam for pex, tanks, and boiler room. $1000 in expansion tanks. my original figure did not include backhoe rental as i thought i could dig trench by hand (boy was i wrong!) and double whatever you think fittings are going to cost you. i think somewhere i have an excel sheet where i kept track of most of the purchases if you want it just PM me. i did invest a substantial ammount of time also so figure that in. i was getting up an hour early before work in the morning to put a few pieces together before my hands froze. i think i was up and running 8 weeks after i started purchasing materials.

 

[Karl_northwind]

If you want some professional help down the line, We're just down the road. I think all of the advice here has been good. We do have a effecta 35 KW up and running in Stevens point if you'd like to check it out. we deal with several different brands and style of solid fuel boilers, as well as solar.

the thing to keep in mind as mentioned before, is the time and energy involved to purchase and connect to storage and make it all work. there are many ways of doing that, and if the labor is considered, the Garn saves a lot of that.
cheers,
Karl

 

[Tank71]

Lot's of "if's" in the build it yourself equation..

Finding, modifying, piping, controlling and insulating 1000 gallons of storage presents a lot of challenges. And don't forget the chimney required for a normal gasser.
It is much simpler and far less time consuming to buy everything in an integrated package that you know will work. (IE: Garn Jr.)
Is time a factor? Is your labor input free or could you be making $$ somewhere else?

A Jr would be $10,995 plus the flue/intake kit ($500), plus the Chemical Treatment program($350?) plus freight ($500?) so you are looking at a package delivered to your door for around $12-12,500.
When I have done the bits and pieces/DIY thing for people the cost is nearly always +/- $1000 of that figure unless they get their 1000 gallons of storage for next to nothing.
You have to remember that if you're going pressurized storage you have to factor in an large expansion tank also....something around 70-100 gallons capacity. Then add in piping, pumps and controls to make it work right......

All I'm saying is be honest about the value of your time and know the true cost of bolting everything together and making it work before you pull the trigger on something.

I am all about figuring my labor into the project. I feel my time is very valuable, there are quite a few people that I deal with that don't think along those lines and to me that is foolish. When I calculated my ROI I even figured $1500 per year to me for my time cutting wood to burn. I own my own Residential construction/remodeling business so if it makes more sense for me to go do a construction job vs. installing a boiler, guess what I will be doing...I am all about keeping things simple (Garn) but if I can build something that is just as good for same money or less, I need to figure that into the equation. The plumber that I use for my jobs is a good friend and lives close by as well so putting together a system won't be a big deal, but all said and done if the end result is going to be same money spent then it probably comes down to preference...now I'm back to where I started. LOL

BTW thank you everyone for the great information, this is what I was hoping for. You can't get this out of most salesman. That for sure.

 

[Coal Reaper]

you can buy a lot of wood for $1500. also, your time is not taxed...

 

[maple1]

There is a lot in this whole equation that comes down to preference & priorities - so trying to make a decision strictly on cost estimation might not give you the 'right' answer.

Example: Some rather than expensing wood cutting time as $/hr, would rather income it at $/hr as it would displace money spent on alternative exercise programs. Math gets pretty fuzzy when it comes to how one factors in their time spent on anything. My free time doesn't magically get converted to dollars - if there is no extra paying job to do, there is no extra paying job to do. So I might as well use it to displace something I would otherwise have to pay for - and get some well-needed exercise at the same time. If I was turning down extra work to go cut wood - that would be different.

 

[Vizsla]

For $12,000. I see you can have a new boiler plus a name brand thermal storage tank with domestic coil, pumps and controls. Depending on boiler brand a second storage tank or include a couple grand for the install. There are LP tanks starting at $100, and the dealer here sells used tanks , all sizes for $175-$400. But do you have access in your area? Still have to figure in the underground lines too.

 

[Karl_northwind]

ehhhhh... plumber does not equal heating contractor. some of them are good, some not so much. If you are busy as I am as a contractor, and don't have an immediate wood source, I will suggest considering a pellet boiler. there are some really nice units available. If you really enjoy making wood, you could consider buying pellets and selling the wood. I know of a few people around here that do that.

 

[Tank71]

you can buy a lot of wood for $1500. also, your time is not taxed...

No doubt. I was figuring worst case scenario when calculating ROI. I can get 10-12 full cord of hardwood delivered to my house by a log truck for around $85 per cord. So worst case scenario if I am that busy at work I can buy the wood and it still make sense $ wise. I don't for see having to buy wood but its nice to know that if I need to its not a deal breaker. Also the cardio workout is a bonus.

 

[Tank71]

ehhhhh... plumber does not equal heating contractor. some of them are good, some not so much. If you are busy as I am as a contractor, and don't have an immediate wood source, I will suggest considering a pellet boiler. there are some really nice units available. If you really enjoy making wood, you could consider buying pellets and selling the wood. I know of a few people around here that do that.

The plumber I use is very well verse in hydronic heating with boiler applications. No worries there. I also have unlimited amount of wood available to me on our property.

 

[Tank71]

Hi Tank - A year ago. I was at where you are now - I didn't research every brand or model out there, you'd never be able to pick one. I picked the Garn Jr, the 1000 gal model. Had they not come out with this one, I'm not sure I'd have done the 1500 one. You asked about dislikes, and the only one I can mention is the price. I know all these gassers are pricey, initial cost, hook up, plus the building. I wanted the fire out of the house, I'd been 15+ years with a Harman, trying to clean a chimney that wouldn't be cleaned, up on the roof every few weeks. At least one chimney fire every year. 9 cords of good wood last season. I liked the rugged simplicity of the Garn, the firebox that could hold a small cow, and the fact it could plumb into our old boiler [through a HX] like the Harman had. What I like the most is the wood it takes - The pic shows what I've been feeding it. some really good size pieces, some I've thrown in have been 12" dia. unsplit, they View attachment 126085 burn down to a fine ash. I haven't had any wood bridge in the box, no unburnt ones. This was all put up a year ago, half cord pallets, just covered on top. I've run slabs from my mill in the Garn, pine, hemlock, etc., all dried like this. At 6 AM today with 150 degree water I loaded up 50 - 60 pounds of slabs, mostly hemlock, it was gone in 1 hour, the water back up to 188, and the blower off by itself. Now, at 2:30, the water is at 160, demand is low though today as it's up to 40. There were a few showers and 2 loads of wash though. Gotta like that free hot water. A word about the smoke [or lack of] My Harman made smoke like I was burning tires in it, bad. The wood I use now is put up the same way, but now I get light blue smoke for 5 minutes, smoke so thin you can see through it. It'll turn to steam on real cold days, like a huge dryer vent for a half hour or so - After that, there's no sign it's running [other than a warm house. Some friends thought we were burning oil. That'll be the day. A lot of visitors have checked out my bldg & Garn, the most used words are "holy sh--" when they first see it. I'm happy, wife's happy - Propane & oil went to how much?

Do you have any pics of your set up? Thank you

 

[mike van]

This thread has some pics Tank. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/my-garn-jr-is-up-running.122144/

 

[flyingcow]

My BIL is a HVAC heating contractor. Self employed. You call him a plumber he gets a bit testy. He explains what the difference is---- a plumber is anyone that can make sh!t run down hill.

Also, when i looked at getting a wood boiler, the going rate for wood delivered all processed to my house was $175 a cord. Whether I did it myself, that was a value I used. Still way ahead of burning oil. The first 3 yrs i could buy tree length at $95 a weighted cord. Now it;'s up to $120. For me, it's a better deal to buy it processed.

When i do process my own wood, I got all the PPE on. If I cut my leg off, I am SOL in trying to make a living driving a truck. At least for 6 months to a year.

Tank71, good luck with everything. this is where I got the majority of my info when I was buying a boiler. Good site.

 

[Fred61]

A few years ago a friend of mine who was self employed was telling me that he did not want to risk life and limb by processing his own wood. He said it was easier to work at his business and with the extra money earned by working a few more hours he could buy oil. One day when I was processing my wood he left work and went for a ride on his motorcycle and was broadsided and killed by an 80 year old woman.

 

[BoilerMan]

A few years ago a friend of mine who was self employed was telling me that he did not want to risk life and limb by processing his own wood. He said it was easier to work at his business and with the extra money earned by working a few more hours he could buy oil. One day when I was processing my wood he left work and went for a ride on his motorcycle and was broadsided and killed by an 80 year old woman.

Not good...........I process my own wood.........and ride my motorcycle.

TS

 

[flyingcow]

Not good...........I process my own wood.........and ride my motorcycle.

TS

especially up there watch out for the Amish buggies

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

The best part of selecting a boiler now: there are choices and different price points to fit the needs and they all work.

I have not purchased a boiler yet but I have accumulated many parts to systems through my travels and explorations. My immediate heating requirement would be easy to beat the price of a Garn. but the time I have invested in just finding parts I can buy a froling and off the shelf storage or two Garn jrs
Looking toward the future I will be adding large barn for my hobbies. I loved the fact that Garn made a unit that can easily be situated in a storage container($1500-3500). The Garn jr would be a great time saver for me so the value is there. will not work for my future load though. Ive been searching for the right storage arrangement for my basement takes time to find them and collect them. and cost to fuel the truck. Hey look 4.09 a gallon fuel U-turn Clyde!
so I collected every part I needed but a boiler. including the dry firewood. turns out others needed it more than me so this year and next year will be free heat on the oil since I sold most everything but my wood I will need when I pull the trigger. My time is in short supply so I find stuff along routes home and buy them to offset my costs. I have done well over the years saving money the DIY route. this purchase has proven to be a challenge to save money on the install and parts. I have instead turned my efforts to the heat distribution in my house. that part I will save money now and when I get my wood boiler. If I ever do sell ill take my wood boiler with me and install a boiler of choice for the new owner.

This site and the contributors really puts the mind at ease. If I had to rush into it, I could do it at a reasonable cost from this site. But since I don't I can let my OCD kick in and plan everything to what I really want and spend a generous amount of money and coast into retirement knowing I wont be burning oil when I'm tinkering in the garage and the house is warm when I go back in.