Defiant Encore cat house trouble?

[bubba3228]

Hello All.

I went to vac the cat house on my model 0028 and may have a problem. When I removed the cat the side of his house fell off. Will this be a part I will have to rebuild before I use the stove?

What happens if I use the stove like this, with the cat in place and do not use the bypass lever to send the smoke into the compartment?



I kind of new some work and expense was heading my way... :coolgrin:

Will I be installing a new refactory assembly? I found one for 181.00 plus shipping. I already have 475.00 in the stove. A new cat when needed will be 230.00

Cut my losses now and start over with a new one? Any opinions from someone that has gone down this road would help me make up my mind. I am kind of leaning tword ditching this money pit.




Left Bad Side Right Good side

 

[bubba3228]

Any help?

 

[brogsie]

Hey Bubba,

I have the same stove that I have used for the past 10 years on week ends only.
I have only had to replace the cat. I really have liked the stove.
Although I still own the old house w/stove I have a new house with a brand new Fireview.
I have used the new Fireview only a dozen or so times but it is so much easier to burn. I was always fiddling with the VC.

For another $410 and a little work you can get some more life out of your VC. Someone posted on how to replace the refractory a few years ago.
If you can afford $2,500 go for the new stove. If you fix the old one you still have a decent stove.

 

[Nonprophet]

Hi Bubba,

That's called the refractory box. Unfortunately, they are expensive (i.e. $400-$500 last time I priced them) and they are fragile. You could possibly repair the damage by getting a small piece of refractory board (or a less expensive patch material like Micore or Hardibacker, etc) and patching it (or buying some castable refractory) but chances are the whole thing is pretty "crumbly" at this point and you might that well wind up doing more damage trying to fix it.

The expense and limited life of the VC refractory box is one of the main reason we sold our Defiant-Encore, even though it was a gorgeous stove and a pretty good heater. We knew that in the next few years we were looking at spending at least $600-700 on the stove ($400-$500 for refractory box and $200+ on a cat) and we thought that was just too much money and we sold the stove.

You can buy a 2'x4' piece of ceramic fiber board for about $25, and then make your own box. Because of the expense of buying a new refractory box, several people here have made their own--if you search here for "Defiant-Encore refractory box" I'm sure you can find some of those threads.

As to using the stove as is, you could just not engage the cat, but then you're really limited on the efficiency of your stove as engaging the cat is a key function in the stove's efficiency.


NP

 

[BrowningBAR]

If you need to replace it: $274.95
http://www.blackswanhome.com/product/refractory-assembly-encore-0028-2140

I'm not sure if you need to replace it since you are only missing the small side panel.

 

[Nonprophet]

If you need to replace it: $274.95
http://www.blackswanhome.com/product/refractory-assembly-encore-0028-2140

I'm not sure if you need to replace it since you are only missing the small side panel.

Wow Browning, that's quite a bit cheaper than when we priced them 2 years ago! I see that they're out of stock right now--hopefully they are still available.

I see too where the OP says he can get one new for $181, that too is quite a bit less than we could ever find them--I wonder if someone found an offshore source for these? I always thought that they were priced ridiculously high.....


NP

 

[BrowningBAR]

If you need to replace it: $274.95
http://www.blackswanhome.com/product/refractory-assembly-encore-0028-2140

I'm not sure if you need to replace it since you are only missing the small side panel.

Wow Browning, that's quite a bit cheaper than when we priced them 2 years ago! I see that they're out of stock right now--hopefully they are still available.

I see too where the OP says he can get one new for $181, that too is quite a bit less than we could ever find them--I wonder if someone found an offshore source for these? I always thought that they were priced ridiculously high.....


NP

Out of stock indicates they will order it upon receiving an order from one. Right now it is a one to two week wait from Vermont Castings for them to receive the part. I just bought the back access panel.

 

[bubba3228]

Thank-you for your reply's, Browning and NonProphet - I found an old thread that name a product called Fiberfrax which is 20.00 or so per tube it is a moldable product that will stand 2300 deg fer. I have the piece that broke off and I was going to try the repair to just get me by for this season. The way it broke off I should be able to smear some of this product on and hold it in place with a couple nails, then I was going to form a small bead along the three edges on the inside and let it set up. I know this will be a temp fix, I was just curious to know if you think this may be worth a try.
Thank you both for your time and I will let you know if it is a successful repair.

Fiberfrax Coating Cements and Rigidizers
Fiberfrax QF-180â„¢, QF-180â„¢Blue, and QF-150â„¢ coating
cements provide a range of consistencies for brush, spray,
and trowel-on application. These coatings have 1260°C
(2300°F) temperature grade rating. They possess good adhe-
sion, thermal reflectance, dielectric strength, hot gas erosion
resistance, and effectively resist wetting by many nonferrous
molten metals.
Fiberfrax TopcoatTM3000 and Topcoatâ„¢ M coating cements
have a temperature grade rating of 1538°C (2800°F).Topcoat
3000 consists of a blend of regular ceramic fibers and high-
temperature Fibermax®polycrystalline fibers combined with
an inorganic binder system. This product imparts excellent
flame and hot gas erosion resistance to other product forms
and effectively minimizes thermal shrink
age of fiber blankets,
modules, and boards. Topcoat M is a blend of Fibermax fibers
in a dry powder form which is mixed with a prescribed amount
of potable water at the job site. It provides protection against
slag and alkali attack when applied to Fiberfrax high-
temperature boards and modules.
FiberstickTMrefractory cement is a high-temperature, air-
setting mortar used as an adhesive to securely bond Fiberfrax
Bonded modules and other product forms to refractory
surfaces.
Rigidizerâ„¢ and Rigidizerâ„¢ W, inorganic liquid hardeners,
have a temperature grade rating of 1260°C (2300°F). They
are generally used to increase the durability and surface ero-
sion resistance of Fiberfrax blanket and board products.
Rigidizer W hardener contains an organic wetting agent to
Fiberfrax Moldables and Pumpables
Fiberfrax LDS and LDS-AL moldables consist of Fiberfrax
ceramic fibers dispersed in a sticky water-based refractory
binder. These materials have a putty-like consistency which
permits application by caulking, troweling, or hand forming.
Both products adhere well to most surfaces. Drying is accom-
plished at a noncritical, elevated temperature, and the resulting
dried material is strong, hard, and erosion resistant. LDS-AL
moldable possesses excellent resistance to wetting by many
nonferrous molten metals and is used extensively in molten
aluminum contact applications.
Fiberfrax Pumpable-LDS, Pumpable-GS, and Topcoat 2600
Insulating Mix were designed for application into difficult-to-
reach areas requiring insulation. Fiberfrax Pumpable-LDS
and Pumpable-GS have temperature grade ratings of 1260°C
(2300°F). Fiberfrax Topcoat 2600 Insulating Mix has a tempera-
ture grade rating of 1426°C (2600°F). A conven
tional air-
operated extrusion pump permits application of these products
directly from their container into furnace and boiler hot spots,
refractory cracks, furnace door jambs, and other areas requiring
high-temperature insulation and sealing.
Fibermaxcaulk is a high-temperature blend of Fiberfrax
bulk fibers, Fibermax polycrystalline high-alumina fibers, and
inorganic binder. This product is available in convenient-to-
use caulking tubes. With a temperature grade rating of
1538°C (2800°F), it can be used to caulk joints and cracks in
both high-temperature Fiberfrax lining systems and conven-
tional refrac tories. Fibermax caulk is also used as a patching
material around deteriorating burner blocks.

 

[Nonprophet]

I would think it's at least worth a try--worst thing is you'd have to replace the whole box which is kinda what you're looking at now anyway. I think I would try to use as little wire as I could as it's probably going to get pretty darned hot which could cause problems maybe--I think I'd try using pieces of paperclip or something pretty thin as "pins" to hold the pieces together while you use the Fibefrax to reinforce it....

If the box seems really crumbly, you might have a hard time getting it out and back in again all in one piece--do you think you can repair it in place?


NP

 

[bubba3228]

Yes my hope is to repair it in place. When I do replace the refracory I will look up the old threads already established for the best method of removal and replacement. I agree with Brogsie when he stated I have a good little stove it is just very finicky, the budget will not allow a new 2500.00 stove. Thanks guys for the support.

 

[VCBurner]

Yes my hope is to repair it in place. When I do replace the refracory I will look up the old threads already established for the best method of removal and replacement. I agree with Brogsie when he stated I have a good little stove it is just very finicky, the budget will not allow a new 2500.00 stove. Thanks guys for the support.

Bubba,

Do yourself a favor and get a probe thermometer to read the cat temp inside your secondary chaimber. They go for around $80 and come with a digital read out that can easily be seen from across the room. This is such an essential tool and should come stock with every cat stove! Look it up on Ebay under Defiant Encore probe thermometer.

Good luck with the repairs many have attempted it here, so use the search bar and look up for references.

 

[bubba3228]

Where exactly am I placing the probe? What Is temp I am looking for?

I think I know the therory of the secondary burn chamber, as it is to get the most efficient output of exhaust flue temp back into stove for a secondary burn before it goes up the stack and out of the house.

 

[VCBurner]

Where exactly am I placing the probe? What Is temp I am looking for?
I think I know the therory of the secondary burn chamber, as it is to get the most efficient output of exhaust flue temp back into stove for a secondary burn before it goes up the stack and out of the house.

OK, here's some info you can chew over, from a catalytic combustor manufacturer website.

Important Tips for Maximum Combustor Effectiveness

1. Burn natural wood Only. Do not burn trash, garbage, wrappings, coal, lighter fluids, treated or painted wood, driftwood, chemical cleaners or artifical or paper logs, or chemical starters that have not been approved the manufacturer.

2. Catalytic combustor temperatures above 1800°F (1000°C) will shorten the life of a combustor. Combustor temperatures between 1400°F and 1600°F (760°C - 870°C) are common, but operating temperatures between 700°F and 1400°F (371°C - 760°C) are recommended.

3. Full catalytic operation occurs at catalytic combustor temperatures above 700°F (371°C). Combustor glowing only occurs at temperatures above 1000°F (538°C). With Aged combustors, there will be a less glowing, but as long as the combustor reaches a light-off temperature of 500 - 700°F (260 - 371°C) catalytic operation is very effective. THE COMBUSTOR DOES NOT HAVE TO BE GLOWING TO BE OPERATING EFFICIENTLY.


I'll send some pics of the thermometer as well as the ad explaining a bit about it. As far as the exact location of the probe thermometer on your specific stove, you'd have to contact Condar, the manufacturer, or a VC dealer to find out exactly how one would install. I know it has to be inserted into the back of the stove, some models may require a small whole to be drilled through.

Digital Catalytic Monitor
Designed for woodstoves and inserts where conventional catalytic probe thermometers would be inaccessible or difficult to see. Powered by 9-volt battery, red LED read-out on electronic monitor is highly-responsive, displays 50-degree increments.

Ideal for stoves made by Vermont Castings (Defiant, Encore and Winter Warm models), Jøtul (Fireflight 12), Clayton Stove (Clay 60 Fireplace), Country Comfort (350-CC), Englander (24-JC) and Travis (Fireplace Xtrordinair). 4-inch stainless steel probe.

6-foot cable may be attached to either side of the remote display. For best visibility use built-in fold-out support. Made in USA.

Optional 110-volt wall plug-in adapter saves batteries.

This is where the add came from:
http://stores.ebay.com/Woodlane-Hea...73962014&_sid=286121364&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

 

[bubba3228]

Thank-you Chris I will take this info and keep checking things out. Good idea.

Bubba