Definition of "Smoldering fire", please?

[TooColdHere]

From a newbie with a new Alderlea T5, I have a question about the shoulder seasons. I just started burning fires about 10 days ago and just at night since the days have been warm. I will try to follow the great advice found here and get the logs to the point I can shut the air off. Embers are certainly left in the morning.
Is this the definition of "smoldering fire"? I have a Condar Inferno thermometer that will run anywhere from 500-650 at the stovetop and a Condar Woodsaver about 12" up the singlewall pipe that never seems to get above 240 degrees. There is about 8" of pipe off the top of the stove and two slight 45s that only offset 6" to vertical. Installation was performed by NFI Certified installer. My question is, are these fires going to begin to cake my pipe with creosote? Am I better off waiting until we get much colder weather to burn? (Currently nights in the 40s and days 55-60.) Thank you for any advice!

 

[HotCoals]

Do you get secondary flames?
Bi-metal can be hit and miss. Get yourself a IR temp gun..all kinds of uses for it.

 

[TooColdHere]

Do you get secondary flames?
Bi-metal can be hit and miss. Get yourself a IR temp gun..all kinds of uses for it.

I do get some secondaries. I have an IR coming tomorrow! I cant wait to see what I am really dealing with.

 

[HotCoals]

Great on the IR!

Usually as long as you get the stove up to temp then back it down for cruise mode you should not have a prob if you see secondary's working for at least awhile.
With a tube stove it does take higher box temps to keep a clean burn as compared to a cat stove. What can happen is people don't want to overheat their houses in the shoulder season with their secondary tube burners so they don't bring them up to proper temp to begin with.

You need at least 1000 degrees F in the box to burn clean..which would be somewhere around half that on the stove top.

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

That is a pretty efficient stove. You should get soot more than creosote unless you are constantly running it choked down and burning moist wood. I never run my stove fully choked down really. 3/4 is the most I go. It is also good practice to run the stove nice and hot for the first couple hours on any new fire or the morning refill. I usually stuff mine in the morning and just let it run full steam once the fire has re-established. I bet it burns out pretty quick but the house is usually still warm when I get home and ready for a new fire.

 

[Sprinter]

The IR gun will be nice to have. The surface of your stovepipe will be cooler than the gasses, though, so you need to compensate if you use the IR on the surface. The Condar is supposedly calibrated specifically to be used on single wall pipe at that height but I think there are a lot of ways for their accuracy to be compromised.

The flue gasses start to condense at 250F but you need to maintain higher temps than that. And the top of the flue will be cooler than down below.

 

[TooColdHere]

The IR gun will be nice to have. The surface of your stovepipe will be cooler than the gasses, though, so you need to compensate if you use the IR on the surface. The Condar is supposedly calibrated specifically to be used on single wall pipe at that height but I think there are a lot of ways for their accuracy to be compromised.

The flue gasses start to condense at 250F but you need to maintain higher temps than that. And the top of the flue will be cooler than down below.

I need to double check, but may have some discoloration at the cap and top of the pipe. I need to conform and maybe climb up there this week. I have a brush coming Wednesday and need to pick up rods for the future. I really appreciate the guidance from you all. Still kind of gun shy being it is my first wood burner.

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

You'll figure it out with time. Every situation is a little different. You do have a pretty sweet stove so congrats! If you're like me you'll probably need to sweep twice a year but that's because I'm allergic to my electric baseboard heat haha. Also effectively using Anti-Creosote spray regularly will help as well. I still need to pick up a bottle of that stuff myself....

 

[Sprinter]

may have some discoloration at the cap and top of the pipe

Some discoloration will be normal. You're bound to have some soot.

Creosote has three stages. Stage one is the powdery black soot. Stage two is crinkly, dry, crackly stuff that can slough off the pipe. Stage three is gooey, drippy, glaze. That's the worst of course. Those are the three things you can look for.

 

[HotCoals]

I need to double check, but may have some discoloration at the cap and top of the pipe. I need to conform and maybe climb up there this week. I have a brush coming Wednesday and need to pick up rods for the future. I really appreciate the guidance from you all. Still kind of gun shy being it is my first wood burner.

No prob.
And to answer your question more precisely I would rather see you wait till colder weather then burn too low and slow now.
You could make a small hot fire for 3 or 4 hours to take the chill off and your house would stay warm a long while probably.

 

[TooColdHere]

You'll figure it out with time. Every situation is a little different. You do have a pretty sweet stove so congrats! If you're like me you'll probably need to sweep twice a year but that's because I'm allergic to my electric baseboard heat haha. Also effectively using Anti-Creosote spray regularly will help as well. I still need to pick up a bottle of that stuff myself....

Is the Rutland powder any good? It's coming with my brush Wednesday. I have really enjoyed the stove so far. I have about 3-4 cords of some very well/good seasoned wood and need to start buying for next year.

 

[Sprinter]

You could make a small hot fire for 3 or 4 hours to take the chill off and your house would stay warm a long while probably.

That's exactly what I do. Just keep the flue temps up and the secondaries burning.

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

I actually don't have any experience with the powder but Rutland makes great products so I think if you use it as directed on the bottle it will do it's job just fine. Just keep in mind, it is no substitute for a brush it just helps things along between sweeps.

 

[TooColdHere]

No prob.
And to answer your question more precisely I would rather see you wait till colder weather then burn too low and slow now.
You could make a small hot fire for 3 or 4 hours to take the chill off and your house would stay warm a long while probably.

Thanks! One thing I have found, I brought my attic up to R-39 this past Spring and the house has maintained 69-75 with no HVAC or stove on the past two weeks. I am amazed at what that simple step did. Tonight, the TV and chicken in the oven made us warm. haha I am really looking forward to the 30 degree days!

 

[HotCoals]

Thanks! One thing I have found, I brought my attic up to R-39 this past Spring and the house has maintained 69-75 with no HVAC or stove on the past two weeks. I am amazed at what that simple step did. Tonight, the TV and chicken in the oven made us warm. haha I am really looking forward to the 30 degree days!

Gotta love it..like a kid with a new toy..ain't it great! lol.

Ceiling insulation is one of the best things you can do..no doubt!

 

[TooColdHere]

That's exactly what I do. Just keep the flue temps up and the secondaries burning.

Is the increase in flue temp a function of more air or a larger ember fire? It seems the flue temp would be the first to decline when I backed down the air supply. More wood?

 

[Sprinter]

I will try to follow the great advice found here and get the logs to the point I can shut the air off. Embers are certainly left in the morning. Is this the definition of "smoldering fire"?

A couple of points here. Once you get down to just hot coals, there is little gas and creosote being produced, and the flue temps can go down as the fire dies down.

Also, the air is never completely off. There is always some air getting through. You may or may not want to run it completely down. My stove is the same basic stove as yours and I usually cruise with the air about 1/2" off the bottom. But you'll learn the best way for you soon enough.

 

[TooColdHere]

Gotta love it..like a kid with a new toy..ain't it great! lol.

Ceiling insulation is one of the best things you can do..no doubt!

I have NEVER looked forward to cold weather...AT ALL! Until now. I can't WAIT to get snowed in. Chili and a homebrew!

 

[HotCoals]

I concur with Sprinter.
How much pipe is exposed before it goes to class A?
You might need double wall if it's a considerable amount but I doubt it.
Lets see what temps the IR gives you with a decent fire maybe 3 or4 hours into the burn.

 

[TooColdHere]

A couple of points here. Once you get down to just hot coals, there is little gas and creosote being produced, and the flue temps can go down as the fire dies down.

Also, the air is never completely off. There is always some air getting through. You may or may not want to run it completely down. My stove is the same basic stove as yours and I usually cruise with the air about 1/2" off the bottom. But you'll learn the best way for you soon enough.

Now THAT makes sense. You have put many concerns at ease right there. Get past the flames to the embers. Thank you!

 

[TooColdHere]

I concur with Sprinter.
How much pipe is exposed before it goes to class A?
You might need double wall if it's a considerable amount but I doubt it.
Lets see what temps the IR gives you with a decent fire maybe 3 or4 hours into the burn.

There is about 5' before it hits the ceiling box. Standard 8' ceiling in pic and a single story ranch, so about the same in DW in the attic and 3' out the roof.

 

[Sprinter]

Is the increase in flue temp a function of more air or a larger ember fire? It seems the flue temp would be the first to decline when I backed down the air supply. More wood?

What happens is that when you turn the air down (do it in increments), the secondaries start to get a greater percentage of the air and burn more. So the stove temps can increase while the flue temps go down. Flue temps too high is just wasteful, so you need to find the balance of good stove top temp with a low but safe flue temp. It's a balance.

My flue temps can get upwards of 800 (according to my probe-type Condar) while I'm getting the fire hot and the secondaries going before I can turn the air down. Then the stove top starts to increase and the flue temps go down, but still around 350. That's my experience anyway.

 

[HotCoals]

There is about 5' before it hits the ceiling box. Standard 8' ceiling in pic and a single story ranch, so about the same in DW in the attic and 3' out the roof.

Should be fine..looks more then that in your avatar.

 

[TooColdHere]

What happens is that when you turn the air down (do it in increments), the secondaries start to get a greater percentage of the air and burn more. So the stove temps can increase while the flue temps go down. Flue temps too high is just wasteful, so you need to find the balance of good stove top temp with a low but safe flue temp. It's a balance.

My flue temps can get upwards of 800 (according to my probe-type Condar) while I'm getting the fire hot and the secondaries going before I can turn the air down. Then the stove top starts to increase and the flue temps go down, but still around 350. That's my experience anyway.

Would you recommend a probe type and I stop using the magnetic pipe thermometer?

 

[Sprinter]

I wish somebody made an inexpensive probe type thermometer for single wall pipe. I think it would be more accurate than a magnetic type that reads so indirectly. You can get an electronic k type thermocouple setup, but it's expensive.

Condar makes a probe one but it is not accurate for single wall application. I asked them about that.