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Dell Point Europa 75

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by NH Winters, Nov 8, 2009.

  1. NH Winters

    NH Winters New Member

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    Nov 8, 2009
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    Loc:
    Centeral New hampshire
    Looking for advice on a problem with my Europa 75. I have a feed auger malfunction. Inspection and cleaning reveal that the feed auger has a black plastic / bake-lite switch with an external white metal lever has come loose from its' mounting point on the feed auger / auger motor assembly. It is attached by two yellow wires and seems to mount at one of 4 positions on the auger motor base plate. It appears that motor torque must depress this switch through contact with one of the interal brackets.

    but which one and where to mount it?

    No loose screws inside the stove, so how was the switch fastened to it's mount?

    nothing but questions and no answers from the manufacturer.

    help!

    NH winters

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  2. MCPO

    MCPO Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
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    2,225
    Loc:
    western Ma , close to NY state border
    Not sure how much support or knowledge here for this stove since the most recent Europa thread didn`t show much if any , but if you don`t get any satisfactory response you could try Iburncorn.com . I think they have a few Europa users over there.
    Good luck.
  3. mnkywrnch

    mnkywrnch Minister of Fire

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    Baldwinville ma
    Franks is on here he's a dealer he should be able to help!!!!!
  4. NH Winters

    NH Winters New Member

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    Loc:
    Centeral New hampshire
    Thanks for the input folks. I still can't find a place to attach thaqt dangling switch, but someone else I contacted on line thinks it may be a safety switch that deactivates the auger when the hopper lid is open. Problem is the connecting leads aren't anywhere near long enough to reach the top of the hopper.

    I'vwe got a line on a local guy who knows something about the Dell Point feed auger system. I hope he knows where the darn thing goes.
  5. Fsappo

    Fsappo Minister of Fire

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    Central NY
    Hey there, I didnt see this thread until now. Can you get me the serial # of your stove and I'll try to help you out.

    Frank
  6. sag6500@hotmail.com

    sag6500@hotmail.com New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1
    Loc:
    Pictou, Nova Scotia
    do not buy this stove.
    The electronics burn out,the feed motor shorts and damages the electronics and the endless screws used to evacuate the ashes break .
    It is overpriced and the manufacturer (dellpoint) is not around to honour the warranty.
    I get as much heat from my whitfield at half the price and no problems
  7. Fsappo

    Fsappo Minister of Fire

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    Central NY
    I agree. If you can find a Whitfield, buy that instead. It makes exactly the same heat as the Europa. And yes, Dell Point is not in business. Claude did not start Paromax to continue to Europa design. He certainly doesnt help anyone that has problems with the endless screws that break. Lastly, at $4400 they are very overpriced and thats why no one buys them!

    Dang stoves
  8. EmaZ

    EmaZ New Member

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    Northern Indiana
    If all of you say that the Dell Point is a "failed" invention, then my upcoming questions probably have no answer. I have been struggling with this stove since buying it in 2006. If the company is out of business, then I guess I am "out of luck"...but I do have a question about the Dell Point Europa.
    I lit the burn pot last night and pushed the green "Pellet" button on the left to activate the blowers and get the stove started. Instead of starting up, the control panel froze and made a squealing or squeaking noise, at regular intervals. I could not get the control panel to activate.
    Do you think there is a connecting wire loose somewhere? I had to replace the F5 fuse recently but I made sure everything back there was tightly connected. I guess I will take out the control panel again and try to make sure everything is connected.
    I am not an electrician so I really don't know what to look for. My experience with this stove is that they expect the buyer to be an expert. If the company is out of business, then I guess my worst expectations have been fulfilled. It's the beginning of another cold season, I am still paying off the loan I took off retirement to pay for this stove...and I can't afford another one. Wow. I have been "screwed over" by a wood burning stove company. So disillusioning!
  9. MCPO

    MCPO Minister of Fire

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    western Ma , close to NY state border
    I feel your pain but taking a loan to purchase what should have been a simple space heater was a big mistake IMO. Choosing the rather expensive Dell Point Europa pellet stove was the second mistake.
    I sincerely hope you do your homework next time.
    Sometimes you just need to chalk it up to lessons learned and move on , and if you can`t get it fixed for a reasonable sum then you might want to consider something more conventional with proven technology like a low priced Englander fron Home depot or something similar that won`t break the bank and access to service and parts are readily available.
  10. EmaZ

    EmaZ New Member

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    Northern Indiana
    Thanks for your post. When I bought the Dell Point Europa, I was taken in by the reassurance of the dealer, who seemed enthusiastic about the stove, their willingness to install it and the internet claims about awards and "Green Technology," which I guess were overblown.
    As it is, the stove does function intermittently but caring for it has become more than a pastime. At one point, the manufacturer (Fireplace Products International) claimed to be willing to reimburse me for the cost. I suppose I could contact them again, because my previous letters to them are on record.
    The stove is "tantalizing" in the sense that when it works, it does work great and I get "suckered in" again.
    Well, I will keep you posted. I just tried starting it again...and all it does is squeal and squeak. Mysterious.
  11. Exmasonite

    Exmasonite Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    Northwest, CT
    Emma-

    Sorry to hear about your troubles... i am currently running a Europa on a house i just purchased but haven't had the issues you mentioned. I had to replace the fuses b/c of an F5 error but knock on wood, no issues.

    But... the inventor/producer is still around to some extent. Here's the website... it's rebranded under "Paromax" out of Canada.

    http://www.paromax.ca/index.php?lang=en

    I called the phone number on the site and they were able to give me some tech support.

    Do you have any way to contact the dealer that sold/installed the stove? I'd imagine they serviced that line of stoves at some point even if they don't support them currently.

    The guy who i takled to at paromax did say that it was important that the feed auger be grounded to the frame of the stove as in certain production models, it had a nasty habit of feeding back and shorting out the circuit board. Unfortunately, that pretty much exhausts my technical expertise and i'd recommend talking to a stove tech or electrician if that's a concern. I'm not even sure if that could cause what you're seeing.
  12. Kernel Klinker

    Kernel Klinker New Member

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    Feb 8, 2008
    Messages:
    18
    Loc:
    Hubbardston, Michigan
    Sorry about your FPI/ Dell-Point problems.
    We have ran one since 2006 as well.
    Runs every day that we need heat.
    2600sq ft with 1500 sq ft basement.
    This little stove heats it all till wind and sub-zero temps hit.
    On 80 lb or less a day of fuel.

    What numbers display on startup (or when it doesn't start)?

    The nasty intermittent squeal you describe is most likely the ash augers.
    Have you ever removed your ash auger assembly?
    The augers will bind and klinker up if the fire runs too low (pellets or corn).
    If you maintain an ash level above the bottom row holes in the burn tube and below the second set it will quit squealing.
    That bottom hole looks like this while the stove is burning:
    [​IMG]
    A quick swipe (leather glove, cotton towel rag) on the glass and you can see where the ash pile is.
    If I can see that hole the combustion fan and ash extraction are both lowered one notch.
    I wait 20 minutes or so and look again. See the blow torch of air from that hole hitting the fuel? All is well.
    Still low? Another notch lower on the combustion fan and ash extraction. Keep lowering the speeds till the fuel level starts to climb.
    When I am running on heat range 1, if the wind isn't blowing, (and it howls here) everything is set to 1 to maintain the correct level.

    When the panel freaked out on me, I unplugged the AC line then disconnected the red battery wire.
    After a 5 minute rest all was back to normal.

    There is lots more.
    Just ask.
    Hope this helps,
    KK
  13. krooser

    krooser Minister of Fire

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    2,423
    Loc:
    Waupaca, WI
    My local CL has a Europa for sale (with a bad board) for $500.00... I was going to jump at it but I guess my enthusiasm has waned...
  14. lowcostheat

    lowcostheat Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Messages:
    31
    Loc:
    Wisconsin
    Our experience has been much better. We have sold over 20 stoves since 2006 and all of them are operating. Regency/FPI was the builder of the stoves we have sold. All of our stoves were sold after Regency/FPI stopped production very early in their 3 years of production to address operation issues. Anything that was in dealers possession or under warranty was or could have been updated by Regency/FPI.

    We still are selling Dellpoint and have all the parts available. We have the Paromax Dellpoint models available also.

    We are burning a Dellpoint which was made in June '06. Admittedly we sealed air leaks and coached (along with other dealers on the iburncorn.com website) all owners to minimize air leaks into the ash pan area.

    A clean, lubricated stove generally runs quiet and well.

    If your stove has any issues, SHUT IT OFF, take the burn pot out, take the ash extraction out, leave them sit for a day and the ash/clinker accumulation will fall off. If you soak it in water, acouple of hours will do, Make sure all holes in burn pot are clean, Remove the cleanout panel on the lower right inside the firebox, clean the metal exhaust fan squirrel cage and vacuum all ash from fan housing and exhaust vent.

    Test auger motors with a jumper wire to a 12 volt battery (they will run clockwise or CCW) depending on how you put the positive/negative leads on the motor. (just connect them correctly when done)

    Make sure the air teardrop in ash area is closed and air leaks are siliconed up with RTV sealant. There is a plate available from the mfg. to seal around the ash extraction shaft if you don't have one.

    If your burner top plate is warped, turn it over and/or order a second one and double it up.

    These stoves ARE the lowest operating cost for the amount of fuel they burn AND the highest overall efficiency of any pellet stove considering operating cost.

    No one is paying me to write this, I believe in this stove and will help anyone across the country with their problems.

    Happy Warm New Year!!
    boomhour likes this.
  15. Irishman

    Irishman New Member

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    Loc:
    Madison, WI
    I agree with Lowcost. The Dellpoint Europa is a fantastic stove. I ran one of the FPI stoves for a year and I had to seal all of the air leaks in the ash pit to get it to burn correctly. I did have to replace the controller that controlled the room air fan and the circuit board. Luckily, the parts were covered under warranty. These stoves aren't without their problems (look at any discussion board regarding multi fuel stoves and show me one brand without problems), but they are fairly easy to work on. Plus, they heat very efficiently compared to the other stoves I considered before purchasing mine. I heat a 1900 sq. ft. rambling ranch to a temp of 78 degrees where the stove is located to 67 degrees in a bedroom furthest away from the stove on less than 65 lbs of pellets a day. That is with a high outside temp of 20 F and overnight lows in the single digits.

    I liked the Europa so much, I turned around and purchased the Paromax version two years ago, which is a greatly improved stove over the old. Claude re-engineered all of the problems areas with air leaks, includes separate burn pots for pellets and corn and the electronic components appear to be of a better build. I just clean it every week and it keeps us nice and warm. I see some recent posts on Iburncorn where two Dellpoint (FPI stoves) owners hadn't cleaned their stoves for a couple of months and they were still burning fine. I wouldn't necessarily recommend that, but it is a testament to their capabilities. Plus, the ash produced by the stove after a week of burning amounts to approximately 4 cups. I think you could safely burn for three weeks before needing to empty the ash pan. I've gone two weeks without cleaning the stove or emptying the ash pan and there was no drop in efficiency that I could detect. I just had to clean it after that because I like to take care of things that keep me, er, my wife warm in the winter.

    Lowcost isn't kidding about assisting others with their problems either. I purchased my first stove from a dealer that I knew was going out of business and Lowcost was more than willing to assist me with getting the parts I needed for my repair. Real solid guy. He got my business for my Paromax stove too.

    Krooser, $500 for a used Europa would be a great deal, even if you had to stick another $500 into it in parts. I'd be happy to talk to you about the stove in greater detail if you'd like.
  16. krooser

    krooser Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
    Waupaca, WI
    I'm still thinking on that stove... BTW welcome aboard to our two new members from Wisconsin...

    http://appleton.craigslist.org/app/2129745134.html
  17. Irishman

    Irishman New Member

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    Nov 9, 2008
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    Loc:
    Madison, WI
    Thanks for the welcome. I've been around here for 3 or so years, but I mainly just read and I don't contribute much. So much to learn here. Bio burning is fun stuff. I e-mailed the lister of the stove to get more details. I will post his responses if you are interested.
  18. EmaZ

    EmaZ New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    44
    Loc:
    Northern Indiana
    Hello Kernel Klinker, Lowcost heat and Irishman. Thanks for the info.
    My stove is currently running but I have not been successful in securing the augur motor assembly so that it doesn't move freely. (It functions but the assembly still slides out when not propped against something)
    Also, the control panel turns off intermittently and I have to jiggle it to get the lights to turn back on. Probably dust or a loose wire somewhere. I've already used compressed air to clean it and have secured every wire in sight.
    I have questions about 1.) regulating the fuel feed to the burn pot and 2.) keeping air leaks out of the ash extraction chamber. I will send those questions soon.
  19. Irishman

    Irishman New Member

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    Loc:
    Madison, WI
    Emma,

    You may already know this, but at each burn level 1-5, there are six additional levels - 3 lower and 3 higher. If you've read discussions regarding Europa burn levels and someone mentions, "I've been burning at 3+2", this is what they are talking about. To access the trim levels, press and hold the hand or manual feed button (lower most right button on the board). The level of trim will be noted in the upper most window. Use the fan + or - to make your trim adjustment. These were put on the stove to help maintain the proper burn level in the pot. I was never able to maintain much more than a 3" ash bed in my old stove, so I used the trim levels as a way to better regulate the temperature in the room. The trim levels in the Paromax stove are a necessity because it is so air tight, you could overflow the pot if you wanted to.

    Aside from the sealing the tear drop on the right upper side of the ash compartment as Lowcost has pointed out, the ash extraction shaft, the door handle and the burn pot are all sources of leaks that can be addressed in some fashion. Let's start with the easy ones first. FPI had some bad burn pots and they don't seat perfectly level. You will notice this by putting your hand on the top of the pot with the burn ring removed and try to move it back and forth. If it rocks in place, it is likely defective. You can turn it until the rocking is least noticeable and reassemble. I ended up getting a new burn pot because it was under warranty. Until I received it, however, I used some of the Rutland gasket cement (2000 degree cement, not silicone) and I would apply it to the bottom and the top of the burn pot before reassembling. It helped and it would turn to dust the next time you took the burn pot out for cleaning. Hi temp silicone would be an awful mess to clean up. The next time you turn the stove off, open both doors and put a flashlight behind the handles from the inside pointing out. You will likely see light coming through. Apply some high temp RTV with your finger to these areas. It may take a bit because they are small areas and you will have to work it in there. The ash auger shaft project is the most difficult, but I'm no mechanical whiz and I managed to get the job done. The cheapest and best solution I could find for sealing the ash extraction shaft involved a 3/4" pump seal (rated for high temperature) and collar from Grainger. You also need some sheet silicone ad RTV. I cut apart a silicone muffin pan for the piece that I used. Put the ceramic collar down on the silicone sheet, draw around it and cut it out. You want the silicone sheet to fit snugly around the 3/4" shaft. I took a piece of 1/2" copper pipe, sharpened the inside edge with a round file and used it as a punch with a hammer to punch out a nice hole. Take the ash extraction unit out. Then you have to take the ash extraction motor off. You will need another person to put pressure on the shaft from the inside of the ash pit before you start threading things onto the shaft. First goes the silicone gasket that you created. Next the ceramic disc and then the pump shaft seal (spring). Lastly, the retaining collar with allen screw goes on. Now that everything is on the shaft, approximate where the silicone washer cut from the sheet will make contact with the ash box and run a circle of high temp silicone around that circumference. Slide the silicone washer down the shaft along with the pump seal. Then, ask the person holding the shaft on the inside ash pit to put hold the lovejoy connector against the back wall while you compress the spring of the pump seal and tighten the allen screw of the retaining collar. The spring will have to be compressed a touch more than you think because once the ash extraction system is reinstalled, it will take some of the tension out of the spring. The compression of the spring can't be too much because you don't want to over stress the ash auger motor. Install the auger motor before reinstalling the ash auger system. This whole process took about 20 minutes and requires a little fanagling, but it was worth it. Here is a link to a picture of my finished install:

    http://forum.iburncorn.com/viewtopic.php?t=8524&highlight;=

    Regarding your electrical problems, you must have a loose wire or perhaps a loose fuse holder. I would assume that problems that are intermittent have to do with poor connections. I'm guessing here, but when controllers, boards or modules fail, they will not work at all.

    Good luck and don't give up on this stove. I'm sure Lowcost can help you get parts if needed. I spoke to the person at FPI that handles the warranty and parts issues and trust me, you don't want to deal with him. He only wants to work with dealers.
  20. EmaZ

    EmaZ New Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    44
    Loc:
    Northern Indiana
    Hi Irishman,
    I appreciate these detailed instructions. For the moment, I do not suspect that I have leaks in the lower ash extraction chamber or burn pot chamber. But maybe I'm not knowledgeable enough to detect this.
    I have not mastered the level of fuel (height of flame) out of the burn pot or the controls of fuel feed. I probably need to do more.
    Once I get basic operating issues under control, I'm going to look at all these instructions from Kernel Klinker, Low Cost and yourself. It's likely that some of this info is also in the instruction manual and I didn't understand...

    Kernel Klinker said I can note the height of ash/flame in the burn pot after "swiping the window with a rag" but my stove has a heavy ash buildup on the inside of the window. (I hate that because the flame in the window looks beautiful when it's clear.) Maybe my burn pot chamber has so much ash because of the rate of fuel feed issue?
    I need to try a few of your suggestions to respond adequately to this dialogue.
    Question: do you regularly remove the four metal plates in the burn pot chamber? (to vacuum out the ash) What kind of vacuum cleaner do you use? This area is so cramped. Am I supposed to remove the flywheel that is in the chamber behind the burn pot? I cleaned it with compressed air and did my best to vacuum out that grey ash with a shop vac. Should I put white lithium grease on the four metal plates on the walls of the burn pot chamber? They are hard to get loose.
    Thanks for your help,
    Emma
  21. Irishman

    Irishman New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
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    Loc:
    Madison, WI
    Emma,

    By design or lack of a good design, you have an air leak around the ash auger shaft. This leak in the new stoves has been addressed through a brass bushing in the ash compartment wall.

    The level that Kernel is talking about is the level of the ash bed in the burn pot. The manual says the optimum burn level occurs when you have the ash bed 5" down from the top of the burn ring. It will be difficult to get your ash bed that high without sealing the air leaks. However, after sealing all of mine, I was still only able to attain an ash bed depth of 2-3" from the auger surface. As long as the fire isn't burning directly on the ash augers themselves, you will extend the life of the augers, especially if you are burning corn.

    Your window sooting up could have to do with too little combustion air or poor pellet quality or a combination of both. Even when burning good quality pellets, I still have to clean my glass every three days or so, if I want to enjoy seeing the flames. I use paper towel and start at the top and work my way to the bottom, helping to keep the soot particles on the door ledge and not on the hearth pad or floor. I don't know any any stove that can burn pellets and maintain clean glass over the course of a week, but I've only seen 5 other brands or so in operation.

    Every time I clean my stove, I remove the panels in the interior and I use a carboy brush to snake up inside the channels on the sides to loosen the soot buildup. You can grease the edges of the doors, but I'm not sure if that will help much. Mine are pretty sticky too. I have the nozzle of the shop vac positioned at the bottom of the doors when doing this because you can have quite a mess on your hands otherwise. My shop vac is a standard shop vac fitted with a drywall bag over the factory filter. If you don't have a drywall bag, your house will be covered with black dust that makes for a long day of cleaning, not to mention what it does for folks that suffer from allergies. There are HEPA grade filters for the shop vacs, but they are quite expensive. The the exhaust fan wheel behind the back right door is best cleaned with a little brush attachment that you can get for your shop vac. You don't have to remove the wheel. Big box stores like Home Depot sell a little brush attachment kit. The fins of the fan can get caked with particulate matter that retards proper exhaust. I use a cheap LED headlamp to aid in the cleaning of the interior of the stove. I also remove the burn pot and ash removal system on a bi-weekly if not weekly basis to remove buildup on the auger screws and the wall of the burn pot. I lube the auger assembly with high temp copper grease before I put it back in.
  22. EmaZ

    EmaZ New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    44
    Loc:
    Northern Indiana
    Thank you very much for your detailed information. I certainly have my homework cut out for me...and I already felt like I was spending all my free time on this stove! There are obviously some tools I need to get and some additional cleaning details that I need to include.
  23. Holly Brown

    Holly Brown New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    12
    Loc:
    Southern Maryland
    Does anyone know of the size seals for the Europa? I'm currently trying to get all my air leaks sealed and the door seal needs to be replaced.
  24. lowcostheat

    lowcostheat Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Messages:
    31
    Loc:
    Wisconsin
    As a dealer, we still can provide the factory gasketing which would cost less than $35 shipped and it would be the right size. FPI/Regency Dellpoint did not overcharge for parts/supplies.
  25. Lyndon Fuller

    Lyndon Fuller New Member

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    Nov 26, 2013
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    Loc:
    Boston
    This site is amazing, so much knowledge in one spot, so as it happens I was given a dell point GF 75 never been used and when I look it up it comes up as the europa 75 are they the same thing, perfect timing, so a couple of things, my oil furnace, died on me still trying to get it fixed, in the mean time where would be the best location for it , I live in a 3 story home, and was thinking of putting it in the back dining room and cutting a hole in the back wall, also do I need the tall chimney or can it vent direct, I know there are differences between pellet and wood stove regs , but not sure what they are , I live in Boston, MA, thanks in advance for your help.

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