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Did I Get Ripped Off On Parts?

Post in 'It's a Gas!' started by Mr Frugal, Nov 12, 2010.

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  1. Mr Frugal

    Mr Frugal New Member

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    I recently bought a 2002 Enviro Ascot gas stove from a guy who'd had it converted to propane. The stove is in excellent shape and looks barely used. I want to run it in my basement on NG, as an emergency backup heat source. (We have a high efficiency furnace, and if the power goes, we freeze...)

    I looked into the cost and availability of parts before buying it. The local dealer wasn't available to get the conversion to NG parts until January(!!), so I started looking around. I found another dealer 45km away, who was gracious enough to pull the parts from a floor model. The parts he sold me consisted of the pilot and burner orifices. He charged me $87 plus tax. This price wasn't out of line with what the local shop quoted me, so I thought, "Gee thats a bit steep for two small parts, but I guess they're specialized".
    Tonight I went to do the conversion. I swapped out the orifices, according to Enviro's PDF instructions, no prob. When I got to converting the SIT regulator, I knew something was amiss. It showed a flip-flop type screw regulator that clearly was not on this unit. From what I've been able to determine via our friend Google, the entire Hi-Low regulator needs to be changed, not just flipped.

    My question is, what do orifices cost? Did the guy who sold me them do a quick 'parts list' search without realising that the regulator was supposed to be included? What does a typical SIT regulator cost? (BTW, its an 820 Nova, model 0820644....Funny the things you figure out after the fact.)

    I'd like to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, and perhaps he just made an error.


    Also, I stumbled across this site, which stocks SIT regulators. http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/16378/SIT-Gas-Valve-Conversion-Kits.html
    There are six NG regulators listed, but only four look similar to the LP that's currently on the stove (it's a 0.907.204)
    Is this company reputable? Any idea which one I need?

    Cheers

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  2. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    Orifices are about $8 - $12 list price for the brands we carry.

    The NG regulator will be the more expensive part. You cannot use NG parts off a "floor model" for a SIT valve. You need to get a sealed NG regulator. The factory NG valves do not have a sealed regulator and it comes apart as the knob, diagram and spring which is not supposed to be used again once you take it apart.

    The price sonds resonable if you had all the parts you needed to complete the job.
  3. Wood Heat Stoves

    Wood Heat Stoves Minister of Fire

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    yes, woodsmans is a good outfit
    good competition, keeps me sharp
  4. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    And setting up any gas unit is not a DIY job.
  5. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    Very true, this is why the regulators are screwed on with TAMPER PROOF Torx screws.
  6. Mr Frugal

    Mr Frugal New Member

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    Yes I know that the regulators themselves are not to be disassembled, (the knob is attached with a tamper proof Torx), but this SIT Nova unit is meant to be convertible. The regulator as a whole unbolts from the gas valve via three regular Torx screws.

    Thanks for the response regarding Woodsman. Now I just need to determine which regulator it is. I also need to determine if Woodsman will ship USPS to Canada...
  7. Wood Heat Stoves

    Wood Heat Stoves Minister of Fire

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    nah, they used to be, now all ya need is a slotted driver
  8. Wood Heat Stoves

    Wood Heat Stoves Minister of Fire

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    so where do you draw the line?

    is installing a woodstove in your home any safer?

    should i not be able to buy romex for my house because i might get shocked?

    in this case it does take a huge amount of knowledge to scab together a kit, but if you have the factory kit, and can follow some basic instructions, i see it as being easier than cutting thru a steep metal roof to install a flashing, at least most lpg conversion kits come with detailed instructions........
    my 02
  9. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Never heard of a house blowing up from a wood leak. Grown-ups are free to do whatever they want as long as it is legal. But I still say installing or modifying a gas appliance isn't a DIY job.
  10. Mr Frugal

    Mr Frugal New Member

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    At the risk of getting flamed here, (hey, that's funny!...), I have to agree with Dave Gault. Where do you draw the line?

    I am the consummate Jack Of All Trades. I have re-plumbed and re-wired entire houses. Most codes, (but not all) are common sense. I pay attention to codes and surpass the "minimum required", especially in building codes, whenever feasible. If I'm not sure about a particular detail, I ask someone who knows, or I research the crap out of it. I acknowledge that I don't know everything, and I certainly respect the training and skill set all licensed tradesmen have.

    I have both the installers manual for the stove and the venting.

    I agree that there are many people out there that shouldn't attempt ANY DIY project. I could write volumes about the butcher job/horror stories I've seen doing reno work. Of course butcher jobs aren't limited to just DIY'ers. I witnessed with my own eyes and ears a licensed plumber recommend a basement toilet install, 14 feet from the stack, be vented with a 1-1/2" breather or "cheater" valve. In fireplace terms, think make up air here- 3" down to 1-1/2". I told the homeowner before the work was started that his toilet will never flush properly, but he didn't listen.
    Guess what? It doesn't. That's why Mike Holmes has a TV show.
    I digress.

    The local FP shop doesn't want to do the install because it is a used stove. They want to make money selling new units. They know most of the variables of an installation using a new, out-of-the-box, stove, and can calculate and account for it. If they quote me on the job and there is a cost overrun on the labour because of something unforeseen, they lose money. I understand the economics of that. I also understand the economics of me buying an almost new used stove at less than half price, and using my skill sets, do the install myself.

    Unfortunately, I'm now at an impasse here. The main parts supplier in Ontario refuses to sell me ( or even give me the part number) of the regulator because I lack a gasfitter license. I now have source the part on-line, or get someone with a license to purchase it for me....
    This is where we're at in the modern age. I can't have a chit without a proctologist telling me I need more fibre, and a plumber telling me I need a low flush toilet. All the while an insurance company telling me I have to have a license and be insured to do both.
  11. Mr Frugal

    Mr Frugal New Member

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    An update on the part situation.
    I hired a guy with a gas fitters license to source the part, inspect and test my piping, install the necessary conversion parts, and fire up the stove. Today I went to pick up the "conversion kit" from the local HVAC shop from which he had ordered it through. Turns out the "kit" consists of a regulator, two orifices, and a sticker to attach onto the gas valve. $230 with tax....Now that I know which regulator it is (there were four to choose from at Woodsman's Parts Plus) I'm feeling a bit cheated. I could have bought all four at $45 each and even with the shipping, I'd still be ahead of the game. Oh well, such is the parts industry, I guess.
    I'll update when I get the damn thing actually heating.
  12. Wood Heat Stoves

    Wood Heat Stoves Minister of Fire

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    not blown up, burnt down though yes?
  13. Mr Frugal

    Mr Frugal New Member

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    Yay! My Enviro Ascot stove is in place and working great! And it only took an additional $900 to get it going! So much for sweet deals off Kijiji...

    My "gas fitter" guy was concerned about the flame height and shape in the stove once we fired it. I tried to explain to him that since we didn't have the log set in place, the flames would look odd. I don't think he believed me. After he left I installed the logs and log bits and started it up. It looks perfect. I think he's new to fireplace installs.
    I added some rock wool that I scavenged from the insulation thimble (I had to trim three inches to fit the wall thickness) and the fire looks even better.
    Now I've decided that I really need a thermostat. The little sucker really heats up the room! I have a 17 year old built in gas fireplace on the main floor that I'm positive consumes more fuel, but put out way less heat.
    This was a good, albeit expensive, education in gas appliances.
  14. Fsappo

    Fsappo Minister of Fire

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    Never happened, Dave!

    To the OP, glad you got your stove running after all this. You hear these stories all the time. Even though it hurts and it goes against how we are programmed, its still sometimes a good idea to go to a hearth shop to buy a hearth product.
  15. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    Hmmm... an insulation thimble for a gas stove? That just does not sound right to me....
  16. Mr Frugal

    Mr Frugal New Member

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    Yes, I questioned this as well.
    The ICC Exel Direct vent specifies an insulated wall thimble when passing through an insulated wall. From what I can glean, it is to prevent overheating of the insulation. Rockwool, or mineral wool insulation, sold in Canada as Roxul, wouldn't have the melt down issues of fiberglass or foam insulation. It's quite common here, but since ICC can't control that aspect, they specify the thimble.
    Better to exceed code and overbuild slightly than have an issue down the road, is my motto. For example, 5/8" plywood for subfloors is code here, but I'd ALWAYS put down 3/4". The cost difference is peanuts.
  17. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    Well most direct vent pipe has a 2" air space clearance. When you pass thru a wall it is just a dead air cavity around the pipe. You caulk and seal with the fire stops so there is no air infiltration. Insulation would create more heat because... thats what insulation does. This could overheat the pipe and create a hotter spot than normal tested temps. But if ICC specifies this part they must have tested with it, so I assume it is safe in that application.
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