Didn't have the Heart.

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NordicSplitter

Minister of Fire
May 22, 2011
541
Western,NY
Taking a quick bike ride to cool down from splitting some wood this morning bumped into a neighbor who just got a wood delivery yesterday. He said it was 5 face cords and next week another 5 is on the way. I asked what he paid and he proceeded to tell me what a good deal he got for $80 a face cord. Mind you it was a good mix of maple, oak and ash. Although tempted, I just didn't have the heart to tell him I got 10 face cords back in early april for $45 a face cord. I guess it pays to get your wood early. It's only gonna go up from here. Officially have 16 face cords for my first year to burn. Getting 2-3 more at the end of the month. (Sugar Maple, Cherry & Hickory...all free). Jotul F600 gets installed Sept 16th at 8am......Pics will follow.
 
$45 a face?!?! That's a great deal. A load of logs will cost +/- $45 a face up here and it's still 8' long and round!

Lucky bugger.
 
Those first 10 face cords consisted of oak, ash and maple. Took 4 of them and triple split the wood to insure a quicker seasoning process. A lot of work but with this heat over the last 6 weeks.....moisture content is at about 15-18%. Well worth the effort.
 
Most likely your neighbor will eventually discover he paid too much. Perhaps do an anonymous favor - write $45/face cord on your suppliers business card and secretly tack it onto the neighbor's wood pile?
 
NordicSplitter said:
Taking a quick bike ride to cool down from splitting some wood this morning bumped into a neighbor who just got a wood delivery yesterday. He said it was 5 face cords and next week another 5 is on the way. I asked what he paid and he proceeded to tell me what a good deal he got for $80 a face cord. Mind you it was a good mix of maple, oak and ash. Although tempted, I just didn't have the heart to tell him I got 10 face cords back in early april for $45 a face cord. I guess it pays to get your wood early. It's only gonna go up from here. Officially have 16 face cords for my first year to burn. Getting 2-3 more at the end of the month. (Sugar Maple, Cherry & Hickory...all free). Jotul F600 gets installed Sept 16th at 8am......Pics will follow.


Why don't you just say you'll have four cords instead of 12 face cords? A 'Face Cord' is not a real measurement of anything.
The term "Face cord" has no legal definition and is mostly used as a means for unscrupulous sellers to deceive unsuspecting/uneducated buyers.

Most everyone on this board talks only in terms of cords and fractions thereof. The term "face cord" should be banned on this forum.
 
Kenster said:
Why don't you just say you'll have four cords instead of 12 face cords? A 'Face Cord' is not a real measurement of anything.
Well, if they're cut to 16" like mine are, everything works out nice and neat. Just stack to 5' and divide by 3. :)
 
Ok...a cord that has a face...Besides we don't need to use legal terms in this forum. Everyone who does, oh about........17 seconds of research will quickly know the difference. Hope the heat isn't getting to all my texan woodmens. Maybe a few hours of splitting cottonwood and taking in the aroma would help. Hahaha
 
Woody Stover said:
Kenster said:
Why don't you just say you'll have four cords instead of 12 face cords? A 'Face Cord' is not a real measurement of anything.
Well, if they're cut to 16" like mine are, everything works out nice and neat. Just stack to 5' and divide by 3. :)

You just proved my point. You'd need a stack 6.4 feet long at 5 feet tall with 16 inch splits to get 1/3 of a cord. Non standard measurements therefore it's easy to screw over someone who doesn't know better. Like your neighbor.
Would you define a "face cord" to your neighbor buddy as a stack of wood measuring 6.4' x 5' x 1.333'?

The next wood vendor may well call his stack of 10 inch splits a Face cord.

I filled up my F-150 yesterday. Damn, it took 64.3 face gallons!!

How to make a three egg omelet. First, take one Face Dozen of eggs.... A face tablespoon of milk...

Just yanking your chain a bit, Woody. You know what you're doing but a lot of people don't. If people talk about ricks and face cords and other non-standard terms with regional definitions a lot of people are going to get screwed out of their hard earned money. That's why most states recognize ONLY the cord, generally defined as a tightly stacked pile of wood measuring 4 x 4 x 8 feet. Regardless of the dimensions of the stack, 128 cubic feet is a cord.

Everyone that has been a member here more than a day or two should know what a real cord is and that is the only term that ought to be used- because we know better. It would just seem silly to describe my wood stash to the members of the forum as 18 Face cords. It's almost like describing the size of my house in square inches, but at least the "inch" is a legally recognized term of measurement.

Cheers!
 
NordicSplitter said:
Wow....Easy tiger.....Its only wood...Hahaha


Good one!
 
Kenster said:
NordicSplitter said:
Taking a quick bike ride to cool down from splitting some wood this morning bumped into a neighbor who just got a wood delivery yesterday. He said it was 5 face cords and next week another 5 is on the way. I asked what he paid and he proceeded to tell me what a good deal he got for $80 a face cord. Mind you it was a good mix of maple, oak and ash. Although tempted, I just didn't have the heart to tell him I got 10 face cords back in early april for $45 a face cord. I guess it pays to get your wood early. It's only gonna go up from here. Officially have 16 face cords for my first year to burn. Getting 2-3 more at the end of the month. (Sugar Maple, Cherry & Hickory...all free). Jotul F600 gets installed Sept 16th at 8am......Pics will follow.


Why don't you just say you'll have four cords instead of 12 face cords? A 'Face Cord' is not a real measurement of anything.
The term "Face cord" has no legal definition and is mostly used as a means for unscrupulous sellers to deceive unsuspecting/uneducated buyers.

Most everyone on this board talks only in terms of cords and fractions thereof. The term "face cord" should be banned on this forum.
In NY it is 100% legal to sell wood by the face cord. There is absoluteLEE NO confusion about 4'x8'x16"
 
My brother is getting "cords" c/s/d and it's probably somewhere around 50-55 cu.ft......pretty sure he's making out better than I did when I bought my c/s/d wood a few years ago. He's paying $50. The splits are around 20". I don't know if the supplier is stupid or just doesn't know any better, but bro's getting a good deal on his 1/3 cords.
Here's the kicker....the stuff is dry as a bone.
You can tell burning is just around the corner......let the games begin. :lol:
 
XactLEE said:
Kenster said:
NordicSplitter said:
Taking a quick bike ride to cool down from splitting some wood this morning bumped into a neighbor who just got a wood delivery yesterday. He said it was 5 face cords and next week another 5 is on the way. I asked what he paid and he proceeded to tell me what a good deal he got for $80 a face cord. Mind you it was a good mix of maple, oak and ash. Although tempted, I just didn't have the heart to tell him I got 10 face cords back in early april for $45 a face cord. I guess it pays to get your wood early. It's only gonna go up from here. Officially have 16 face cords for my first year to burn. Getting 2-3 more at the end of the month. (Sugar Maple, Cherry & Hickory...all free). Jotul F600 gets installed Sept 16th at 8am......Pics will follow.


Why don't you just say you'll have four cords instead of 12 face cords? A 'Face Cord' is not a real measurement of anything.
The term "Face cord" has no legal definition and is mostly used as a means for unscrupulous sellers to deceive unsuspecting/uneducated buyers.

Most everyone on this board talks only in terms of cords and fractions thereof. The term "face cord" should be banned on this forum.
In NY it is 100% legal to sell wood by the face cord. There is absoluteLEE NO confusion about 4'x8'x16"

That may or may not be so, but NY also places some legal requirements on the seller. Quoting from Monroe County site:
"Buying Firewood

Some people heat their homes with firewood, which is sold by a measurement called a “cord.â€

A cord is 128 cubic feet of firewood. To be sure you have a cord, you should stack and measure the wood. If the width times the height times the length (all in feel) equals 128 cubic feet, you have a cord of firewood.

The seller may not use terms such as “truckload,†“rack†or “pile†in any advertisement or on the receipt.

The seller MUST issue a receipt which shows the seller's name, address and phone number, and the price, quantity and kind of wood purchases.
What You Should Do

You or someone you trust should be present at the time the firewood is delivered.
Write down the license number of the delivery vehicle and get the name of the driver.
Stack the wood as soon after delivery as possible.
Measure the wood before re-cutting or using any of it.
Take a picture of the stack (s) of wood if you think there is less than what you paid for.
If you feel you have a problem, contact the seller before you burn any wood.

If you have a problem with the delivery of firewood and you cannot resolve it, contact this office at 585 753-7933.

(Provided by NYS Weights and Measures Associations and the National Conference on Weights and Measures.)"

We wouldn't have regulatory involvement, were all business-people honest. In reality, we have Weights & Measures inspecting all scales & gas pumps. And historically, we have "bakers' dozens."

This "face" crap is purely a scam-enabler. To rip off the gullible- not that hard to do if we simply talk "cords." K.I.S.S.
 
Is the term "face cord" use in certain geograpical locations? I have never seen it sold in that measurement around here. Not even on CL.

How many others have seen it sold like that in their areas?
 
fishingpol said:
Is the term "face cord" use in certain geograpical locations? I have never seen it sold in that measurement around here. Not even on CL.

How many others have seen it sold like that in their areas?

A cord is obviously 4foot x 4foot x 8 foot.

A face cord is 4foot tall x 8foot long by any depth you want up to 4foot. Many people will claim that 3 face fit into a cord but by the actual definition any number of face could fit into a cord. Around here, it's commonly 3 face to a cord is how most people sell it since 16 inch wood fits into most any wood stove. 4 face to a cord (12 inch long wood) would be inconvenient for many. 2 face to a cord (24 inch splits) would have a very small amount of buyers considering today's stoves.

pen
 
Kenster said:
Woody Stover said:
Kenster said:
Why don't you just say you'll have four cords instead of 12 face cords? A 'Face Cord' is not a real measurement of anything.
Well, if they're cut to 16" like mine are, everything works out nice and neat. Just stack to 5' and divide by 3. :)

You just proved my point. You'd need a stack 6.4 feet long at 5 feet tall with 16 inch splits to get 1/3 of a cord. Non standard measurements therefore it's easy to screw over someone who doesn't know better. Like your neighbor.
Would you define a "face cord" to your neighbor buddy as a stack of wood measuring 6.4' x 5' x 1.333'?

The next wood vendor may well call his stack of 10 inch splits a Face cord.

I filled up my F-150 yesterday. Damn, it took 64.3 face gallons!!

How to make a three egg omelet. First, take one Face Dozen of eggs.... A face tablespoon of milk...

Just yanking your chain a bit, Woody. You know what you're doing but a lot of people don't. If people talk about ricks and face cords and other non-standard terms with regional definitions a lot of people are going to get screwed out of their hard earned money. That's why most states recognize ONLY the cord, generally defined as a tightly stacked pile of wood measuring 4 x 4 x 8 feet. Regardless of the dimensions of the stack, 128 cubic feet is a cord.

Everyone that has been a member here more than a day or two should know what a real cord is and that is the only term that ought to be used- because we know better. It would just seem silly to describe my wood stash to the members of the forum as 18 Face cords. It's almost like describing the size of my house in square inches, but at least the "inch" is a legally recognized term of measurement.

Cheers!

"Gee officer, I though I was doing the face limit!" :coolhmm:
 
NordicSplitter said:
Taking a quick bike ride to cool down from splitting some wood this morning bumped into a neighbor who just got a wood delivery yesterday. He said it was 5 face cords and next week another 5 is on the way. I asked what he paid and he proceeded to tell me what a good deal he got for $80 a face cord. Mind you it was a good mix of maple, oak and ash. Although tempted, I just didn't have the heart to tell him I got 10 face cords back in early april for $45 a face cord. I guess it pays to get your wood early. It's only gonna go up from here. Officially have 16 face cords for my first year to burn. Getting 2-3 more at the end of the month. (Sugar Maple, Cherry & Hickory...all free). Jotul F600 gets installed Sept 16th at 8am......Pics will follow.


Wow! I'd definitely get into the business if I could sell wood for that price!


On the cord of wood, I find it rather disgusting that in our area and, I think, all over Michigan, wood is sold by the "cord." Yet, it is simply a stack of wood that measures 4' high by 8' long. If they would state a face cord or rick or any other definition of it I would be fine but to call it a cord, to me, that is false advertising and just plain cheating.

fwiw, around here, for the last 2 years it is very common to find a so-called cord of wood for $45. We've even seen it as low as $35. I suspect when people run out of dead ash the price will go back up but there is a glut right now and it is sad to drive around (or ride my bike) and see all the dead trees.
 
Does anyone know how a face cord measurement came about? I would seem like it was made for weekend or ambience wood burners that did not need a full cord for their needs. Just enough to stack in the garage and not get in the way, but enough to have when they need it.

Full, half or quarter cord seems straighforward. Face cords sounds confusing, especially to the uninformed. One big gray area methinks.
 
A rick. Or the face of the stack is measured like a cord. Or on the face of it....
 
XactLEE said:
Kenster said:
Most everyone on this board talks only in terms of cords and fractions thereof. The term "face cord" should be banned on this forum.
In NY it is 100% legal to sell wood by the face cord. There is absoluteLEE NO confusion about 4'x8'x16"

It's not quite that simple in NY. A face cord is 4 feet by 8 feet by whatever depth the buyer and seller agree upon:

NYCRR Part 221 (3/29/2007)


Code:
(13)  Wood for fuel.   
  (i)  All wood for fuel shall be offered for sale or  sold at retail in the manner provided in this paragraph, 
except: 
   (a)  any sale of unpackaged wood for fuel if the wood was observed by the buyer or his agent before 
sale; and 
   (b)  any sale of standing trees offered as stumpage for fuel purposes. 
  (ii)  Definitions.   
   (a)  Wood for fuel means any kindling, logs, boards, timbers or other wood, split or not split, and 
similar products advertised, offered for sale or sold in a form or size appropriate for use as fuel. 
   (b)  Cord means the amount of wood which is contained in a space of 128 cubic feet, when the wood is 
ranked and well stowed. The dimensions for a standard cord of wood are four feet in height, eight feet 
in width and four feet in depth and shall be stated whenever the term is used. 
   (c)  Face cord means the front or face of a standard cord, i.e., four feet in height and eight feet in width, 
and the depth being defined by the length of the cut wood expressed in inches.  The dimensions shall 
be stated whenever the term face cord is used in any representation. 
   (d)  Ranked and well stowed means the placing of pieces of wood in a row, with individual pieces 
touching and parallel to each other, and stacked in a compact manner. 
   
   (e)  Representation means any advertisements, offering, invoice or the like that pertains to the sale of 
wood for fuel. 
      (iii)  Identity.   
   (a)  No representation of wood for fuel shall identify as "hardwood" the wood from any species of 
conifer, aspen, poplar, basswood, butternut, willow, grey birch and paper birch. 
   (b)  If wood is represented as seasoned, the  length of time and the manner of seasoning must be 
specified. 
  (iv)  Quantity.   
   (a)  Whenever wood for fuel is advertised, offered for sale, or sold at retail, the three dimensions of the 
wood, when ranked and well stowed, shall be stated and shall be expressed in feet and inches.  The 
dimensions may be accompanied by any descriptive word, such as cord, face cord, truckload, rack, etc. 
 For example: 
   (1)  4 ft x 8 ft x 24 in (1/2 cord); 
   (2)  4 ft x 8 ft x 16 in (face cord); 
   (3)  4 ft x 8 ft x 18 in (rack); 
   (4)  9 ft x 9 ft x 3 ft (truckload); 
   (5)  1/3 cord (4 ft x 8 ft x 16 in); and 
   (6)  face cord (4 ft x 8 ft x 18 in). 
   (b)  Wood may be sold by weight if the quantity exceeds two cords. 
   (c)  Processed wood, such as wood chips, hogged bark, slabs and edgings, pelletized wood and 
shavings, shall be sold by weight or volume.
 
fishingpol said:
Does anyone know how a face cord measurement came about?

A cord of wood stacked 4x4x8 is a cube. If you take the "face" (aka front or back) off of it, that would be the face of the cord.

Don't know that for fact that's how it came about, but its a reasonable explanation in my eyes.

pen
 
ewdudley said:
XactLEE said:
Kenster said:
Most everyone on this board talks only in terms of cords and fractions thereof. The term "face cord" should be banned on this forum.
In NY it is 100% legal to sell wood by the face cord. There is absoluteLEE NO confusion about 4'x8'x16"

It's not quite that simple in NY. A face cord is 4 feet by 8 feet by whatever depth the buyer and seller agree upon:

NYCRR Part 221 (3/29/2007)


Code:
(13)  Wood for fuel.   
  (i)  All wood for fuel shall be offered for sale or  sold at retail in the manner provided in this paragraph, 
except: 
   (a)  any sale of unpackaged wood for fuel if the wood was observed by the buyer or his agent before 
sale; and 
   (b)  any sale of standing trees offered as stumpage for fuel purposes. 
  (ii)  Definitions.   
   (a)  Wood for fuel means any kindling, logs, boards, timbers or other wood, split or not split, and 
similar products advertised, offered for sale or sold in a form or size appropriate for use as fuel. 
   (b)  Cord means the amount of wood which is contained in a space of 128 cubic feet, when the wood is 
ranked and well stowed. The dimensions for a standard cord of wood are four feet in height, eight feet 
in width and four feet in depth and shall be stated whenever the term is used. 
   (c)  Face cord means the front or face of a standard cord, i.e., four feet in height and eight feet in width, 
and the depth being defined by the length of the cut wood expressed in inches.  The dimensions shall 
be stated whenever the term face cord is used in any representation. 
   (d)  Ranked and well stowed means the placing of pieces of wood in a row, with individual pieces 
touching and parallel to each other, and stacked in a compact manner. 
   
   (e)  Representation means any advertisements, offering, invoice or the like that pertains to the sale of 
wood for fuel. 
      (iii)  Identity.   
   (a)  No representation of wood for fuel shall identify as "hardwood" the wood from any species of 
conifer, aspen, poplar, basswood, butternut, willow, grey birch and paper birch. 
   (b)  If wood is represented as seasoned, the  length of time and the manner of seasoning must be 
specified. 
  (iv)  Quantity.   
   (a)  Whenever wood for fuel is advertised, offered for sale, or sold at retail, the three dimensions of the 
wood, when ranked and well stowed, shall be stated and shall be expressed in feet and inches.  The 
dimensions may be accompanied by any descriptive word, such as cord, face cord, truckload, rack, etc. 
 For example: 
   (1)  4 ft x 8 ft x 24 in (1/2 cord); 
   (2)  4 ft x 8 ft x 16 in (face cord); 
   (3)  4 ft x 8 ft x 18 in (rack); 
   (4)  9 ft x 9 ft x 3 ft (truckload); 
   (5)  1/3 cord (4 ft x 8 ft x 16 in); and 
   (6)  face cord (4 ft x 8 ft x 18 in). 
   (b)  Wood may be sold by weight if the quantity exceeds two cords. 
   (c)  Processed wood, such as wood chips, hogged bark, slabs and edgings, pelletized wood and 
shavings, shall be sold by weight or volume.

Don't overthinx it!
It IS as simple as 4'x8'x16" = Facecord or 19" = facecord or 25" = facecord, etc.
When you call a buyer who has a facecord advertised and you ask him the dimensions for clarification and he sez 4'x8'x16". There is absoluteLEE NO confusion. Or he sez 4'x8'x21" ,,,, again NO confusion.
Too much emphasis is being put on the seller and certain dimensions when it's a buyers responsibility to determine what he's getting and whether it will fit in his stove.
I've been selling wood in NY for 23 years and if you try to tell a customer a cord is 4'x4'x8' , he'll look at you like your a monkey scratchin yur nuts.
 
XactLEE said:
ewdudley said:
XactLEE said:
Kenster said:
Most everyone on this board talks only in terms of cords and fractions thereof. The term "face cord" should be banned on this forum.
In NY it is 100% legal to sell wood by the face cord. There is absoluteLEE NO confusion about 4'x8'x16"

It's not quite that simple in NY. A face cord is 4 feet by 8 feet by whatever depth the buyer and seller agree upon:

NYCRR Part 221 (3/29/2007)

Don't overthinx it!
It IS as simple as 4'x8'x16" = Facecord or 19" = facecord or 25" = facecord, etc.
When you call a buyer who has a facecord advertised and you ask him the dimensions for clarification and he sez 4'x8'x16". There is absoluteLEE NO confusion. Or he sez 4'x8'x21" ,,,, again NO confusion.
Too much emphasis is being put on the seller and certain dimensions when it's a buyers responsibility to determine what he's getting and whether it will fit in his stove.
I've been selling wood in NY for 23 years and if you try to tell a customer a cord is 4'x4'x8' , he'll look at you like your a monkey scratchin yur nuts.

Yep, I think you've got it right according to the NYCRR. As far as the monkey nuts thing goes I'll just leave that between you and you're customer's.

Cheers --ewd
 
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