DIRE WARNING--Your New Electric Generator Is Not Designed or Intended for Continious Opperation

[eernest4]

If you got hit in the power outages in new england & just bought a generator, You need to know that it is not designed or intented for continious oppertaion.

If the engine is not equipped with an automotive type screw on oil filter then chances are you have a splash oiling system & are looking at a 2 or 3 week engine life span on a new engine
under continious opperation.

If you want your generator's engine to outlast the power outage, only run it for 3 hours & let it cool off for 20 or 30 minutes.

Engine Oil, Grade Of,----- Is Determined by cold engine external temp. This is the outside temp
when you start your cold generator engine.

5-W-30 is what you should be using for winter time.

5w30 is rated for 50 below in sinthetic but only 10 below 5w30 in dinosaur oil.

10w30 is rated for(+45* to +10 *) 10 deg above or higher but may cause engine failure at 5 deg F above zero.

SAE 30 is rated +99 deg to +45 deg and could cause engine failure at 30 deg above zero.

at 30 deg above zero, sae 30 has the consistancy of vasoline jelly & can not lubricate your engine.

at plus 5 deg F, SAE10w 30 has the consistancy of vasoline jelly & cannot lubricate your engine.

at zero deg, 5w30 dinosaur oil has the consistancy of vasoline jelly and cannot lubricate your engine.

at minus 50 deg below zero,sae5w30 Sinthetic has the consistancy of vasoline & can no longer lubricate your engine.

Once the engine has run for 15 minutes, the oil will warm up & lubricate but the wrong grade of oil means that for the first 15 minutes of opperation your engine is essentially running without lubrication & subject to advanced wear & premature failure.

Two types of engine oiling systems.

If you paid under $600.oo for your generator, chances are good that you have a splash oiling system without a positive pressure oil pump. To find out, look for a spin off automotive oil filter on your engine.

If you have a spin off auto type oil filter,you have positive pressure oil pump. If you dont have an oil filter, you are splash oiled.

Splash oiled relies on changes of engine rpm & the proper grade of oil for the outside temps
for adiquate oiling of your engine. This type of engine is designed to run for 2 or 3 hours & then a 30 minute cool down period and may use oil faster than you think. check the oil level every refill of the gasoline tank, usually after about 3 or 4 hours of run time.

These are your cheaper briggs & stratton or tecumpsha engines in the 3 to 6.5 hp range , mounted on your cheaper generators.

They are intended for intermitant running of power tools & lights on the job site & not for 24 /7 usage.

The engines with the positive pressure oil pumps & filters are a better grade, more able to withstand a bit harder usage but are still intended for intermitant usage, designed to run 4 or 5 hours & then a 30 minute cool off.

You can run them for longer but I can't say that you will get maximum lifespan from the engine.

I do know that if you try to run them for 24/7 you will be replacing the engine within 40 days.

I remember back 2004 0r2005, when we had a power outage that lasted for some people over a month, that generator engines started burning out within two weeks, some made it to 3 weeks & others to 4 weeks, depending upon how hard their owners abused & missused
them, so a warning to the wise.

Here I have spelled out the causes of premature engine catastrific engine failure & have told you how to avoid it.

So see what happens to your engine if you dont believe me; and read your owners manuel.

 

[ResOps]

It starts with the quality of the generator! I purchased a Honda EB3000 back in 1984 when a tornado turned the switch out on us for 5 days. The EB is a construction grade designed for continuous service! The Honda ran continuous during that event although not always at full load. Thats the key! In the manual Honda it states for continuous operation only run at 80% load. My generator has endured counltess multi-day outages since the 84 tornado and usually if its a multi-day event it runs during the day and is shut doen at bedtime.
I only use Quaker state synthetic 5W-30 in it for about the last 10 years and I have had to replace the exciter brushes, 2 spark plugs, the fuel filter and the air filter.Not bad for a 24 year old genny. And I would say it was advanced for its time> auto throttle and oil alret were included
I don't imagine these offshore clones will be here in 24 years

 

[kinsmanstoves]

Very good reminder.

Thanks
Eric

 

[MCPO]

IMO, a splash or pressurized system is irrelovent when buying a generator for home emergency use. I never had the need to run my $400 generator set continously. Usually an hour or so just to have the furnace get the house up to temperature and the refrigerator cold , it can then be shut down for 3-6 hours at least depending on the outside temperatures.
I mean folks, this is emergency power. You shouldn`t expect to have the TV and humidifier running at these times. It`s a time for the candles and sweaters and opening the fridge only when necessary.
You can bet the generator won`t be running 24/7 just to power my puny little pellet stove when I have a fully capable 100K BTU oil furnace that will heat my whole house 10 times faster and then go off for a long time.
Others may have a freezer ,water pump,etc but the same principles apply.
When I had electric heat my old woodstove in the finished basement eliminated the need for a generator

 

[StoveMiser]

I have had a different experience with my Briggs splash system. I use synthetic oil and change it every 50 hours. I have used the generator hard for several years. Running for days and days during outages, odd jobs on the property and it runs like a champ. Use synthetic oil, change it at the interval in your manual and let em run. Can't imagine shutting down every 3 hours.

 

[MCPO]

I have a small 1500 watt Coleman / Kawasaki engine generator that`s about 20 yrs old that I still use occasionally.
I ran the oil in it dry and it froze the engine up , stopped dead in it`s tracks. I brought it too a small engine repair shop just to see if it was salvageable. He charged me $40 to fix it as it was an easy fix to squirt some penetrating oil inside to free the bound up cylinder. He told me to watch the oil level in the future. That was 10 yrs ago and I still use it on occasion. I gotta change the oil one of these years. Go figure.

 

[wilbilt]

My $300 Chinese Champion Chonda clone is splash-lubricated. It also has a low-oil shutdown.

I don't consider it a continuous-run piece of equipment. During outages, I typically will run it for a couple of hours powering the fridge and freezer, then connect it to the well pump so we can flush toilets, take showers, etc. I don't run it all day, or at night. I use it for what it is, and don't expect more from it.

One point to make regarding a new generator, and that is to follow the manufacturer's instructions for break-in. Typically, these will include running it without a load for a specified period of time when first starting it, and and changing the oil after running for a few hours when new. This will insure any metal particles from the break-in period are flushed out and will add years to the life of the engine.

My Champion also specified adjusting the valves after a certain number of hours as well.

Speaking of Hondas, I also have an EB5000 11HP unit in the shed. It had been seriously abused by a contractor before I acquired it. I wore my arm out trying to start it last year, which is why I bought the clone. I need to fix the Honda, as it's always good to have a backup for your backup. A "Plan C", if you will.

 

[j00fek]

im still kickin the coleman 1500 from 1991! needed a new carburator last yr during a brief outage but this yr i didnt have to break er out. before the ice arriaved i did a tune up and put new 5-30 in it

 

[MCPO]

im still kickin the coleman 1500 from 1991! needed a new carburator last yr during a brief outage but this yr i didnt have to break er out. before the ice arriaved i did a tune up and put new 5-30 in it

That`s the brand of mine. (Kawasaki engine)

 

[ResOps]

My $300 Chinese Champion Chonda clone is splash-lubricated. It also has a low-oil shutdown.

I don't consider it a continuous-run piece of equipment. During outages, I typically will run it for a couple of hours powering the fridge and freezer, then connect it to the well pump so we can flush toilets, take showers, etc. I don't run it all day, or at night. I use it for what it is, and don't expect more from it.

One point to make regarding a new generator, and that is to follow the manufacturer's instructions for break-in. Typically, these will include running it without a load for a specified period of time when first starting it, and and changing the oil after running for a few hours when new. This will insure any metal particles from the break-in period are flushed out and will add years to the life of the engine.

My Champion also specified adjusting the valves after a certain number of hours as well.

Speaking of Hondas, I also have an EB5000 11HP unit in the shed. It had been seriously abused by a contractor before I acquired it. I wore my arm out trying to start it last year, which is why I bought the clone. I need to fix the Honda, as it's always good to have a backup for your backup. A "Plan C", if you will.

Wow Wilbilt - when a honda don't start its bad - I never get more than 2 pulls on mine. I' be curious to hear what was wrong. Aside from a fouled plug, which they're famous for if left idling with no load, and crappy gas its hard to kill a honda.

 

[schmeg]

I have an 8 year old comercial grade Generac 7500w continueous Generator with a 14 hp overhead valve, pressure oil fed system with a spin on filter. I use Mobil 1 0w-30 in it. It gets a workout here in the country in Maine. We loose power on a regular basis, for extended periods of time. Nothing new to us. I let mine run all day on Friday so my pellet stove would keep the house at 70 while I went out and scrounged up my 5th ton. OINK!

 

[RPK1]

Thanks for that usefull information. I recently installed a 16kw propane fueled auto-start generator to take the place of my well used 1985 Honda EB4000. My old honda still runs well. I was wondering if it would be any benefit to switch over to synthetic oil. Any thoughts will be helpfull.

RPK1

 

[wilbilt]

Wow Wilbilt - when a honda don't start its bad - I never get more than 2 pulls on mine. I' be curious to hear what was wrong. Aside from a fouled plug, which they're famous for if left idling with no load, and crappy gas its hard to kill a honda.

It seems to be a fuel issue. I messed with it a little bit last spring. It was flooding, so took the carb off and cleaned it out. It would start and run for a short time, and then didn't seem to be getting any fuel at all.

I checked the filter in the tank petcock, it was fine. Then there was no spark at the plug, which is probably ten years old at least.

I chalked it up to a bad karma day and rolled it back into the shed. I'll get motivated one of these days and figure it out.

 

[BrotherBart]

Both my 4,250 watt and 4,800 watt splash oilers are designed to run their little butts off until either the power comes on or they melt down to landfill material.

 

[staplebox]

Oy, probably not needed here, but, another reminder is to not run a generator INDOORS. Every time there is a power outage like this you just know you are going to read about someone running a generator in the house or garage and dying from the carbon monoxide. A quote from the Hartford Courant about the recent storm,

"Emergency management officials reported four storm-related deaths. One man in New Hampshire and a couple in New York state died of carbon monoxide poisoning from home generators."

I don't know what kind of instructions or warning labels new generators come with but either they are not big enough or some people just don't get it.

 

[ResOps]

Oy, probably not needed here, but, another reminder is to not run a generator INDOORS. Every time there is a power outage like this you just know you are going to read about someone running a generator in the house or garage and dying from the carbon monoxide. A quote from the Hartford Courant about the recent storm,

"Emergency management officials reported four storm-related deaths. One man in New Hampshire and a couple in New York state died of carbon monoxide poisoning from home generators."
I don't know what kind of instructions or warning labels new generators come with but either they are not big enough or some people just don't get it.

WHAT?? can't hear you over the generator Oh never mind I'm too sleepy to worry about it> :-S

Just kidding. And certainly agree - outdoors only

 

[Richardin52]

I had a Brigs 16 HP twin on a Wood miser saw mill that a splash system. One night when I left it on a job some kids drained the oil out of it then turned it on full throttle. The guy I was cutting for stopped by and found it running like that and shut it down. He said when he did about a teaspoon of oil came out of the drain hole. We have no idea how long it ran like that but figure they got into it before dark so they could see and he found it like that about an hour after dark.

I figured it was toast but took the mill home and put some more oil in. It started and never smoked or anything. I ran that mill for another 6 years and cut over a million feet with that same engine and never had a problem. A mechanic told me if it had not been a splash system it never would have made it. He figured there was just enough oil in it (the teaspoon) to lube it.

This was a horizontal apposed 16 twin and was one tuff engine.

 

[jdemaris]

If the engine is not equipped with an automotive type screw on oil filter then chances are you have a splash oiling system & are looking at a 2 or 3 week engine life span on a new engine
under continious opperation.

It's not that simple. There are many engines without pressurized oil systems that are very heavy duty and made for continous use. Every own or use an old cast-iron Wisconsin engine? At one time, the most popular and rugged small engine in the world - and no pressure oiling. TRA10D, TED, TFD, AEN, VE4D, etc. 'The later Wisconsin Robin engines are made by Subaru and are also rated for full-time use and they don't have pressure oiling either.

I'll also add that many cheaper Tecumseh and Briggs & Stratton engines - with no pressure oiling- are used on full-time use commercial equipment and last quite awhile. We sold commercial Bobcat and Bunton 48" mowers that came with Briggs or Tecumseh 10 horse engines. They got used 8-10 hours a day, every day, all summer.

More of a problem with cheap, throw-away engines is - the lack of ball bearing mains and lack of a cast-iron cylinder liner. And yes, there are many cheap throw-away engines used on generators.

One more note - about engine oil. Most automotive engines oils now are not really suited for small engines - but that info isn't exactly made overt. The heavy duty wear additives - ZDDP- have been removed except for oils used off-road in HD use. Getting an oil with the proper antiwear additives is much more of an issue to me. As to using thin oil - fine if you have to and the generator is stored in a cold area. Otherwise - if it's stored somewhere warm - a higher viscosity is often better - especically in splash-oiled system. Oil should be the thickest possible based on the coldest area it's stored in.

 

[schmeg]

Mine stays out in a little "dog house" I made for it right near my meter and power switch. It gets well below zero a lot here. Thats why I run 0w-30. Good flow characteristics. It gets 15w-40 in the summer. With good oil small engines will last a very long time. A lot of what Earnest is refering to can be avoided with frequent and regular oil changes.

 

[donkarlos]

doghouse - ha!
curious though, how enclosed can a gen house be?

 

[Shortstuff]

I wanted to share this because I found it to be the most informative information - all inclusive - in one place about engine oils. I've never learned so much about oils.

I'm doing my annual maintenance on my snow-thrower (8hp Briggs&Stratton and according to the manual it requires a quart of 5w-30 motor oil with an API rating of SF-SG-SH or SH/CD. So, I checked around at more than a few places while out and about and wasn't able to find oil with the right API rating(s). So, not knowing any better, I wondered if I could substitute my oil with another API rating and decided to do my homework and learn exactly what this API was all about and I found this "The Engine Oil Bible" (link below) which gave me the answer.

The API refers more to the year a particular oil was introduced into service, rather than anything "chemically specific" as I thought it was. Currently SM is the newest API service rating which was introduced to the market in November of 2004, which replaced the API SL which was introduced to the market in 1998, which replaced the API SJ which was introduced to the market in 1996, then comes my snow throwers SH - SG - SF etc.

Bottom line is that I can use any of the newer API rating oils.

See, you can teach an old dog new tricks!

"The Engine Oil Bible"

Happy Heating!

Steve

 

[wilbilt]

I wanted to share this because I found it to be the most informative information - all inclusive - in one place about engine oils. I've never learned so much about oils.

Here is another excellent oil-related site. Tons of information, and lots of knowledgeable posters in the forums:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

 

[kofkorn]

Mine stays out in a little "dog house" I made for it right near my meter and power switch. It gets well below zero a lot here. Thats why I run 0w-30. Good flow characteristics. It gets 15w-40 in the summer. With good oil small engines will last a very long time. A lot of what Earnest is refering to can be avoided with frequent and regular oil changes.

Be Careful

My sister's neighbor had exactly the same setup with his generator. When they lost power on Friday, he went out, started the generator and went off to work. His wife got up, took a shower and then saw flames passing by the bathroom window. She had just enough time to get her two kids out. They lost the whole house. No indication yet exactly how it started, but I'm guessing the exhaust was too close to the wall.

Make sure that thing is properly vented, both intake and EXHAUST

 

[kofkorn]

Here's a picture of the house after the fire on Friday.

http://www.journaltribune.com/DailyPhoto/DSC_0500.jpg

He had the generator in a small doghouse right beside the power drop. PLEASE BE CAREFUL!

 

[imacman]

........ A lot of what Earnest is refering to can be avoided with frequent and regular oil changes.

Absolutely right! Hey, if you run the generator a lot, change the oil a lot! If you can afford the generator, you can afford to buy a quart or two of oil once in a while.

And speaking about oil, anyone that is not running full synthetic oil in their generator (or any engine IMO), is behind the times. Synthetic is superior to regular mineral oil in many ways.

As for generators, especially ones used in cold climates, a low winter rating oil (0w, 5w) makes the engines start easier as it doesn't thicken when it gets cold like mineral oil, and is also superior for high stress, long endurance running....it does not break down like mineral oil. I use Mobil 1 in my 12kw Generac (recommended by the manufacturer after break-in), my car, my garden tractor, and snow blower, but ANY name brand will be fine (Amsoil, Quaker state, Pennzoil, etc).

We have been using synthetic in our race cars for years (engine, rear end, bearing grease too)....have NEVER had an oil-related failure...period.

Get with the times people.