Disassembling the chimney

[xman23]

I have been putting this off for some time, but it's time to figure out where the water leak is and how some animal is getting into the ceiling box. I didn't put chimney together so Im not sure what side needs to come apart first. Do I take down the outside chimney and romove the roof flange before the inside ceiling box?

Has anyone put one together that can shead some light on this. I think it is dura vent.

Thanks for any help
Tom

 

[Thomas Anderson]

First remove the cap by turning it counter-clockwise, then turn the chimney section counter-clockwise to separate it from the piece below the roof flashing and pull it through, then remove/adjust/replace the roof flashing if it's leaking. You can continue breaking down the chimney piece by piece from the top-down.

 

[jjs777_fzr]

Are you positive something is in the ceiling box ? The ceiling box is open from the top - basically a open box where the class A shiny pipe is inserted all the way into the box where it is twist lock attached. Since the box is probably about 2ft long (to account for the protrusion through the ceiling and joists) any critter that may have entered your attic - if they fall into the box will have a heck of a time trying to get out if indeed there is something there - since the shiny pipe is indeed slippery.
If you have access to the attic/crawl space you should be able to get to that ceiling box and look inside.
My guess is a rat, mouse or squirrel made its way into your attic and fell into your ceiling box.
The correct installation would have seen another metal collar or guard that is installed in the attic space and around the class A to prevent anything from falling into the ceiling box and to keep anything from making contact with the class A pipe.

As for the leak - depending on how much take down you want to do - you don't necessarily have to remove all the pipe.
You could just loosen the storm collar and undo the tabs that maintain its roundness and investigate.
Please note - that the storm collar sits on top of the flashing piece.
The flashing piece is the piece that slides up and under the roof shingles and has the sloped angle with a hole to allow the class A shiny pipe to slide through.
Worthy of note is - there are vent slots machined into the flashing around the pipe hole - just under the storm collar that is not easily seen once the whole system is installed.
I don't know how much of a leak you have - but what I've noticed on my system - is that if the rain is heavy enough and at the right angle - the rain will spash hard enough and get up and under the storm collar from the high slope side (roof peak side) and make its way through the machined slots.
Then it dribbles a bit down the class A pipe. Not much - but enough for me to notice during a heavy downpour coming from the right direction.
May not be your issue...but that caulking job seen in your pics looks pretty decent which makes me wonder where the leak is coming from.

 

[Heatsource]

if it is dura vent, its the duratech (solid pack double wall)...
they once told me i "might have to silicone pipe joints, and the vertical seams, up to 4' above the flashing"
i replied " shouldn't the pipe be water tight?"

 

[xman23]

Thanks guys for the suggestions, keep them comeing.
I think it's Dura Vent, maybe Dura Flue.....but it was a major brand name. I take the top section, class A off for cleaning, so I know how get it apart. I didn't know how the bottom section attaches to the ceiling box. But that makes sence, like ever other section. It has been driping out of the box and water stains on the ceiling below the box. We noticed the stains and drip from the box a year ago. The chimney was cut into a finished roof, but it has been there 12 years with out an issue. I have added fresh silicon a few times just for the sake of doing it. You would think if it was comeing down the pipe it would stay in the box and drip out of the bottom of the box only. I didn't think about the seams on the outside of the pipe, i will look at them and put a small bead of silicon. Thats an idea that it might splash up and get ito the vent. When I get the pipe out i am going to flood the area to see if the flange is leaking.

We have had a bat get in to the main attic. But this is a shed roof that is closed in. We hear scratching in the box, or somewhere there, only at night sometimes. We are in the woods, ever animal out there is trying to get in. I looked on the roof when this is going on, and don't see anything. What I'm affraid of, what ever it is has built a nest in there. I thought a small bat has found he can get thru the vent slots, but i don't know.

After i get the class A pipe and single wall out, how can i get the ceiling box down. There is a trim ring on the ceiling, but isn't there wood screws from the inside of the box into the rafter box? How do I get at those screws?

Tom

 

[jjs777_fzr]

Is there access for you inside the attic to see where the pipe goes through from the living area - into the attic - and out through the roof?
Is your objective to completely remove the ceiling box ? If you have attic access why remove the ceiling box ?
The ceiling box has flanges on the top portion which allows it to rest and not drop down into the living area. I'm pretty sure I screwed those flanges into the joists from the top side - making any removal of the box very tough.
In other words - trying to remove the ceiling box completely could be a big job.

 

[xman23]

The chimney goes thru 2 roofs, kind of. The inside ceiling is a 12 / 12 pitch with 2 x 12 rafters. Just above that there is the 5 /12 roof that you see in the picture. The shed roof intersects the main roof 2 feet above the chimney. This is a roof on a side porch. I could cutin a access door into the closed space between the roofs. The 2 roofs were the chase goes thru is only 6 inches apart. When I cut in the chase for the 1' x 1' ceiling box, I cut open a larger hole in the sheet rock. Maybe the box screws went into the box thru the wood chase. When I get the trim ring off I will see whats holding it there. Could be flanges under the ring. I do want to get it open or out to see what is in there.

 

[xman23]

Update,
I unstacked the chimney from the top down. At the storm collar level there was a 4 and 2 foot section that dropped into the ceiling box. After pulling then only the flashing ring was left. Now I could see the inside of the ceiling box. As I suspected there was two dead bats in the bottom of the ceiling box. After making some creative atachments for the vacuum I was able to get it cleaned out. They were getting in the vent slots.

Now the leak issue. After a few water tests, the best I could see water is getting under the flashing ring. I decided to pull out the ring. When it was installed, they lifted the shingles and removed the roofing nails from about 3 inches on the sides and top. After slideing it under the shingles they lifted the shingles and nailed the flange in eight places. Lifting the shingles to get at the nails I found these nais lifted and had put holes though the shingle above. There were no visiable hole in the top shingles. I pulled the flange out. I had some left over shingles so I replaced a few pieces on each side. Slide the flange back in, useing wood screws to hold it down. Silicon calked it all up. So next the water test and restack the chimney.


Tom

 

[jjs777_fzr]

Sounds like you made good progress. Hope you pass the water shed test with no leaks.

 

[xman23]

Update 2, roof leak
After redoing the roof flange the hose test and a 2 inch rain storm showed me I had fixed nothing. So off to You Tube. How smart can we be now. A couple of very good roof repair / leak finding videos, and I was ready for anything. When I got on the roof yesterday, it took me a few minutes to find all the potential leeks. You can see in the picture of the flange, above it there is a short row of shingles. This is where the two roofs angles intersect. The shingles bend, not well. One had a 3 inch open crack, and a few of the splice points had bellys, that left a opening for water to get under the top shingle. I pulled out and replaced 4 shingle sections as well as some calking. I did a hose test and it looks ok. I have to see what happens when we have a big rain, but I am confident I found it.


I cleaned and restacked the chimney sections. After lighting a 2 hour 500 degee test fire. I got on the roof to check the chimney. Only to find water dripping out and running down of the top 3 sections. Those sections were hot to the touch! The bottom section coming out of the flange / storm collar was cool. Here's what happened, the three top sections were left laying on an open deck in the rain for a few weeks. The 6 ft of the bottom section with the storm collar was on my side covered deck. As Dave A1 stoves said the pipe is not water tight! I think the top collar of each section will prevent water from running out of one pipe into the pipe below it. The good news the wet insulation sections are above the roof. So hopefully a few hot fires will dry them out. Seeing this issue, as Dave said, to prevent water from getting into the house via the pipe, I am going to calk the side seam of bottom section thats exposed.


The finial issue I had was bats getting thru the roof flange slots. I used aluminum window screening to wrap around the slots. After asssembling the chimney I found there is a small opening between the flange and the pipe, just under the storm collar. I added another wrap of window screen that is tight to the pipe.


I hope my roof leak and critter solutions will help others here that have these issues.

Tom

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the update xman. It sounds like you are finally getting on top of these issues.

 

[WellSeasoned]

Water leaks in a roof can be hair pulling, but hopefully you found the culprit. Good luck

 

[fossil]

What a pain. I'm sure you'll keep after it until it's water-tight. Bats (depending on what kind, but typically in N. America they're small) only need about a 3/4" diameter opening, and they seem to think "the smaller the better". Sounds like you've made some good progress. I'm pulling for ya...keep us posted. Rick