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Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by DeanBrown3D, Oct 16, 2006.
This sounds like a job for "Myth Busters"!! :coolhmm:
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Blaze King 1107
Average EPA Test Fuel (Low Burn)8,600 Btu’s/hr
Average EPA Test Fuel (High Burn) 37,800 Btu’s/hr
Average Real World Btu’s (Low Burn)8,400 Btu’s/hr
Average Real World Btu’s (High Burn)47,000 Btu’s/h
From what I am hearing, there are a lot of people on this
thread who aren't familiar w/ a big "Cat" stove. The cat
naturally constricts the draft of the unit, because all of the
exhaust is being forced through it. 24 - 40 hr burns?? Sure
you can!! If you have a big enough fire box & are able to
turn it down sufficiently after the cat "lights-off". Also, you
would need to use the hardest of woods.
80% efficiencies?? Sure you can, especially w/ cat stoves.
Thicker, more expensive elements will lead to this.
P.S. - There are more ratings listings for Blaze King stoves
in Heartnet Stoves Rating section, under "Other Mfr."
(scroll through a "complete" listing & look for a "King..."
listing or a "KE..." listing). I think you will find a lot of
loyal Blaze King owners out there. If it were up to me,
I would have a Blaze King today
According to Gunner the details of the 47 hour burn on the blaze king website report average btu output was 7,000/hr with stack temps of 200 deg. Tell us what catalyst lights at 200 degrees? Wouldn't running a burn like this though the catalyst completely clog it?
Note that the the location that the flue temp was taken & recorded
was several feet above the Cat Element, and not thus not totally
indicative of the Cat Temp. Unfortunately, their current literature
is "cut-off" not revealing this test info. I do have the complete
brochure from a retailer with this test parameter info.
Make sure your Summit doesn't hear, it might not make dinner for you anymore, or solve calculus equations!
I am trying to decide today between the Blaze King Cat Insert and a Regency 2400I. The Dealertold me that yes they say in Idael conditions they get 47 hours on the King, and the insert I am looking at claims 20 hours burntime. He told me that he cant beleive in the real world, you would get those times, but he knows people that get 24 hour out of the king and 12+ hours out of the insert.
Once the cat is engaged at it's lite off temp it burns the smoke and stays lit even if the temp falls below the initial lite off. Cats can get away with lower stack temps because they burn all the nasty creosote making stuff before it reaches the chimney. When I look at my chimney while the stove is burning there is no smoke, just white steam coming out. Less heat up the chimney, more in the stove.
If I can get true 12 hr burns with my 2 cu ft firebox, the Blaze King with it's 4 cu ft fire box should get at least twice that. I believe!
4 cubic foot firebox!! :bug: Man, that is a big stove!
Shuuuuuuuuuuu............... be very , very quite .. I'm hunting Blaze King
The Summit has nothing to worry about ,she is a great stove ! ( and I'm not moving 475 lbs of steel stove again ) :bug:
OK - this is another great advantage for cats that (if true) I did not know about.
1) Are there any studies or links that you know of demonstrating the temps at which a cat will reliably maintain combustion after initial light off?
2) Can you personally get no-smoke burns with 200 degree flue temps on a fully loaded firebox in your stove?
3) Why can't you get at least half the burntime Blaze King reports with your firebox that has half the volume? (you are only getting about 25%)
All very good questions and i have wondered the same thing.
I ran the #'s of the Blaze king on there 40 hour burn time and it didnt look so good .
Well i just ran the #’s on the Blaze King and at stated the stove will put out 7200 but per hour at the 40 hour burn time so.....................
@ the BTU’s of oak at 90 lbs of wood = 48% Efficiency .
so with that we know its not getting any where near 2. g/ph of emissions.
And that is assuming that the 7200 btu;s an hour is true and not fudged.
1. I don't know of any studies or links, just what Woodstock told me about how the cat works.
2. No, it's more like 300-350 on a fresh full load. After fire burns down some, the flue temp also drops. Maybe if I tried shutting the air almost all the way off I could. But I never tried. My stove can be completely shut off from combustion air. There is no secondary air intake or EBT.
3. Don't know, their numbers probably have some fudge in them, or they filled the stove with one big chunk of hardwood that completely filled the firebox, lit off the cat and shut off the air almost completely and had a smouldering no flame fire. I do have coals that last over 12 hrs, but I consider burn time when you can rekindle a fire by throwing more splits on top of a good bed of coals, not til the last coal is out. Plus the soapstone stays warm for even longer.
I've got a Regency I2400. One thing I liked about it is that it fit into my relatively small fireplace. I suspect the Blaze King will require a much bigger fireplace. You'll want to check if you have room for it. The manual says the Blaze King has a 25" firebox and I know my Regency's firebox is only 18".
The other difference of course is that the Blaze King is a cat and the Regency is a non-cat. So the Blaze King is probably going to be better at long slow burns because non-cats seem to need to keep the firebox hotter (by burning faster) to support secondary combustion. On the other hand, with a non-cat there's no cat to replace or clean.
1. Good question - would be interesting to link to this site. I think the flue temperature reported could also be highly variable depending on whether you measure in single or double wall pipe, and would depend on how far up the flue stack.
2. You can after the initial burn, but you need to take it up to higher temperatures initially to start the catalyst and then you can damp it back down.
3. Woodstock does not have a thermostatic damper. Done correctly, they can help stretch out your heating cycle. Wonder if anyone on this site has made a PC-controlled damper with a thermocouple feedback to an actuator controlling air intake - that would be the ultimate if designed w/appropriate failsafe design. There may be some efficency of scale as well.
At the end of the day, I'd only tell people 12 hours w/a Woodstock and feel good about it, but I have gotten 16, and with a more elaborate damper control, and much larger firebox, and ideal test conditions, I could believe getting 40. But I wouldn't advertise it
(BTW, Woodstock advertises 10-12 hours)