Do new inserts really heat?C450

[56Steve]

I just replaced mu Jotul 20 insert of 25 years with a lightly used Jotul C450 Tamerax The was just a convection stove no fans cast iron inner stove with a damper and air inlet, I would build a fire, boom ,heat, keep it fired up it wood drive you out of the room. My newer C450 which I hooked up to the connecter kit from the 20 till I can put in the liner, just doesn't put out a lot of heat, glass is 500 550 degrees unless you have the blower going full blast it doesn't do much and I did remove the block off plate on the top surround which helped somewhat. My old stove kept the house warm fro the week of power outage two years ago from the freak late October snow storm. I don't have to much faith in this stove as a back up with out the blowers running. The house is well insulated 2x6 walls 12 inches in the attic. I know I am not burning the best wood being sliver maple but it is what I was burning in the old stove. Can I expect better with the liner?

 

[begreen]

Welcome. It looks like there is no secondary action My guess is that this is because dumping the flue into a larger chimney is reducing draft. The new stove is really going to want a full liner for proper draft. That healthy draft will kick in proper secondary action and a lot more heat. Also, put in a damper sealing block off plate when putting in the liner.

PS: I would move the insert out further into the room so that it convects better too. You will get the least convection with it installed flush.

 

[56Steve]

Thanks for the reassurance about putting in a liner, right now i have it about an inch form the face. The old stove had no surround.

 

[webbie]

Fact is, though, that inserts such as these were made for looks.....and usually do not heat as well as - for example - a Jotul or other stove on the hearth and partway-in, etc.

When I owned a stove shop I often took products home and tested them out. We installed one of the first Vermont Castings Fireplace inserts...and were very surprised with the relative lack of heat (we had stove in there before).....

If you never had a stove and just went for an insert like this (and others), you'd probably be happier as you are getting much more heat than an open fireplace. That said, you are probably not going to measure up to a stove....even with the better draft. This is especially true if the chimney and fireplace are on an exterior wall.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the reassurance about putting in a liner, right now i have it about an inch form the face. The old stove had no surround.

The C450 can extend up to 6.5" in front of the surround. That exposes more of the stove to the room. Whether this is an option will depend on how much headroom there is to connect the liner.

 

[oconnor]

I have mine fully extended into the room and get great heat from it. I can easily get the top heated to 750F (900 or more actually, but don't do that, it's not a good idea ), but not having a full liner is going to limit the stove. The other points Begreen and Webby make are all true, I'm lucky to have an interior flue in a small two storey home, so it heats our whole house.

 

[56Steve]

How do you extend it out? Will that change the location to the flue?

 

[oconnor]

It will. The throat of the fireplace may limit how far the insert can be pulled into the room. Have a look online for the manual and the details of how to set it up.

 

[richg]

I just replaced mu Jotul 20 insert of 25 years with a lightly used Jotul C450 Tamerax The was just a convection stove no fans cast iron inner stove with a damper and air inlet, I would build a fire, boom ,heat, keep it fired up it wood drive you out of the room. My newer C450 which I hooked up to the connecter kit from the 20 till I can put in the liner, just doesn't put out a lot of heat, glass is 500 550 degrees unless you have the blower going full blast it doesn't do much and I did remove the block off plate on the top surround which helped somewhat. My old stove kept the house warm fro the week of power outage two years ago from the freak late October snow storm. I don't have to much faith in this stove as a back up with out the blowers running. The house is well insulated 2x6 walls 12 inches in the attic. I know I am not burning the best wood being sliver maple but it is what I was burning in the old stove. Can I expect better with the liner?View attachment 119999

As stated previously, there are no secondaries visible despite a very active coal Bed. Even my Quad 4300, which I despise, will get good secondaries. Flames shooting out of the tubes like blow torches and a cloud of flame hovering over the wood.

 

[USMC80]

As others have said, no secondaries firing in that pic

 

[rwhite]

I consider an insert the best compromise. If you don't have the hearth or firebox for a freestander then an insert is about the best you can do. Mine extends out from the firebox 10-12" and even then I have to run the fan to get the heat out. But they do heat, just not as good as a freestanding stove.

 

[Rudyjr]

As the others have stated the new stoves require a liner. Also it makes all the difference in the world to install a block off plate. My C450 easily heats my four bedroom ranch from its location in a basement rec room.

 

[56Steve]

Long due update, I had a liner installed a few weeks back and was able to get a hold of some well seasoned oak, big improvement! Cranks out good heat now with secondaries flaming away. Wife is happy.

 

[mellow]

Good to hear, the 450 is a good medium heater. Did you pull it out onto the hearth more?

With seasoned wood you will notice you can turn the air down more and still get good heat out of it.

 

[56Steve]

Not really. It's as far out as it will go with the liner. I did take the block of plate behind the lattice on the top and get a fair amount of heat coming out. Though there most be a reason they blocked it off, the sides are solid.

 

[bholler]

Do you have a block off plate in sealing the damper thought around the liner/ that usually helps allot to

 

[56Steve]

The installer of the liner packed it with insulation.

 

[bholler]

That should be ok i prefer a hard plate under the insulation but just insulation will do it

 

[mellow]

This is my thread on the 450: Got the itch again... Jotul C450 Kennebec

If this is an exterior chimney I would Insulate the fireplace as well when you get a chance.

 

[56Steve]

I read your thread on insulating, makes sense. I do have an outside chimney. How about just stuffing around the box the insulation?

 

[mellow]

Insulation will help, BUT I found I was still losing quite a bit of heat to the outside bricks. If you have the room I would advise you to attach 1/2" concrete board to the metal fireplace box, then stuff the area with Roxul around the insert.

You can try stuffing Roxul around it then after a few hours of running the stove go outside with an IR gun and see how much heat is leaking to the outside bricks.