I was in Glens Falls, NY today near the paper mill, and I saw a bunch of trucks bringing logs that look a lot better than the ones that I get? Do the paper mills get better woods? Maybe they pay more? Any ideas?
Do The Paper Mills Get Better Logs?
- Thread starter velvetfoot
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Wisneaky
Minister of Fire
They get almost all logs. At least around here they do. The mills are running out of logs so they are paying a premium so any logs you do find that you are able to buy probably aren't the best.
JustWood
Minister of Fire
Yes, they have specs for crook, length,diameter,cleanliness, limb trim and rot.
Crook , length and diameter are prolly different at every mill. Just depends on processing equipment.
Crook , length and diameter are prolly different at every mill. Just depends on processing equipment.
There is a good chance that a log load of firewood is some of the stuff that the mills won't accept.
I wonder what the mills pay? Maybe I can find that out somehow. You'd think the truck doesn't have to travel as far. The apparent difference in quality is night and day.
The stack of logs at the mill is always an incredible sight.
The stack of logs at the mill is always an incredible sight.
Technically, paper mills don't buy logs, pulp mills do 
The pulp mills do have log specs as they need to debark them and feed them into a chipper. If wood is tight the specs get looser but with the current snow pack its ideal for logging. The other issue is that the standard price ranking on logs is veneer, high grade sawlogs, utility sawlogs (pallet), pulp wood, firewood/biomass chips. If the demand for biomass is high then its easier to just chip the firewood. If the demand for pallet wood is low, then it tends to shift to pulp wood.
The pulp mill I worked with had a set aside pile of oversized odd wood, during mud season they would bring in an industrial version of a log splitter (16 foot stroke) and split the oversized stuff. On occasion I would see some really gnarly 3 to 4 foot diameter monsters get split. If it was a particularly long mud season, the plant would resort to buying just about anything. Most healthy pulp mills will stockpile a months worth of wood prior to mud season. If they aren't stockpiling it sometimes implies that the mill is struggling or they have new investor that thinks they can wish away mud season.
Most loggers regard bulk firewood as a PITA, there is a lot more insurance exposure when a logger has to pull into a residential driveway and do an unload. Most mills pay very quickly and reliably and they reward logging firms for their loyalty, a homeowner cant do that. Sometimes the drivers, who tend to be independents, don't mind doing a small delivery especially if they get a good tip as its a break in the day.
The pulp mills do have log specs as they need to debark them and feed them into a chipper. If wood is tight the specs get looser but with the current snow pack its ideal for logging. The other issue is that the standard price ranking on logs is veneer, high grade sawlogs, utility sawlogs (pallet), pulp wood, firewood/biomass chips. If the demand for biomass is high then its easier to just chip the firewood. If the demand for pallet wood is low, then it tends to shift to pulp wood.
The pulp mill I worked with had a set aside pile of oversized odd wood, during mud season they would bring in an industrial version of a log splitter (16 foot stroke) and split the oversized stuff. On occasion I would see some really gnarly 3 to 4 foot diameter monsters get split. If it was a particularly long mud season, the plant would resort to buying just about anything. Most healthy pulp mills will stockpile a months worth of wood prior to mud season. If they aren't stockpiling it sometimes implies that the mill is struggling or they have new investor that thinks they can wish away mud season.
Most loggers regard bulk firewood as a PITA, there is a lot more insurance exposure when a logger has to pull into a residential driveway and do an unload. Most mills pay very quickly and reliably and they reward logging firms for their loyalty, a homeowner cant do that. Sometimes the drivers, who tend to be independents, don't mind doing a small delivery especially if they get a good tip as its a break in the day.
Wood Duck
Minister of Fire
Are the pulp mills getting softwood logs? I'd expect a load of softwood to include a lot more straight, uniform logs than a load of hardwood, especially the hardwood sold as firewood. Here we don't have pulp mills nearby, but I assume the best hardwood logs go to lumber mills and firewood buyers get the lower grade logs.
Most tree-length firewood is what mills won't take. Keep in mind that they have to clean and debark what the process, and knotty, crooked and small-diameter logs do not go through a debarker very well. There's also a higher percentage of bark in a smaller diameter log so not as much value. If a logger is selling everything he cuts, he's going to take the clean straight butt logs to a veneer mill, everything else that meets sawlog standards is going to the sawmill, and the rest will either go to pulp (if it's softwood) or pellets/chips (if hardwood). If you're getting "good-looking" logs more than 10-12" diameter, then your logger has no other profitable market for them at the moment.
In the good old days when pulp mills owned their own land (mostly long gone 20 to 30 years ago), they owned the trees and had a lot more control of wood supply. When the investors bought them and stripped off the land assets, there was usually some long term supply agreement imposed on the old woodlands but the plants lost a lot of control and the folks left running the pulp mills had to drop their standards. I remember the woodyard at the pulp mill I worked at rapidly started accepting far smaller diameter wood when the current owners sold off the last of the land. One of the many reasons why the pulp and paper industry has collapsed in the northeast.
Our pulp mill had a company logging crew (and the last company owned logging camp in the east), when they were slow, they would go in the woodyard and go "logging" they would go through the rows and grab high grade wood that could be resold for sawlogs. A few of the folks were fairly good at picking curly and birdseye logs, a few figured logs were worth more than an entire truckload. The oversized stuff that they would split were really old gnarly trees, when they split them there was some incredible figures that would get exposed but they normally would go in the pulper as the mill was desperate for wood. Our place was a small mill and it needed 1600 tons per day, seven days a week, 350 days per year.
Most pulp mills are either hardwood or softwood. Our mill could go both ways but it was a compromise
Our pulp mill had a company logging crew (and the last company owned logging camp in the east), when they were slow, they would go in the woodyard and go "logging" they would go through the rows and grab high grade wood that could be resold for sawlogs. A few of the folks were fairly good at picking curly and birdseye logs, a few figured logs were worth more than an entire truckload. The oversized stuff that they would split were really old gnarly trees, when they split them there was some incredible figures that would get exposed but they normally would go in the pulper as the mill was desperate for wood. Our place was a small mill and it needed 1600 tons per day, seven days a week, 350 days per year.
Most pulp mills are either hardwood or softwood. Our mill could go both ways but it was a compromise
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