-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
jtp10181
Minister of Fire
Look on the sticker on the back of the thing. I don't know it off hand but I think its on the sticker. I think they list it as the min ceiling height, measured from the floor not the top of the stove.
GVA
Minister of Fire
babalu87
New Member
northwinds
Minister of Fire
I was too slow on the trigger. Was gonna guess that:
http://www.mpsutility.com/woodheat_doc.pdf
Page 12 of the pdf document covers the subject. The whole document is kind of a fun read from the Minn gov't.
http://www.mpsutility.com/woodheat_doc.pdf
Page 12 of the pdf document covers the subject. The whole document is kind of a fun read from the Minn gov't.
babalu87
New Member
HarryBack
New Member
The donor stove we installed failled the inspection. Due to the distance to the ceiling required 54 " the stove actually measures 52"
stoveguy2esw
Minister of Fire
so what do ya do now? wall protection on the ceiling?????
i havent run into that before, was it just a low ceiling in the room or is it in an alcove?
i havent run into that before, was it just a low ceiling in the room or is it in an alcove?
I never ran into this situation before never saw a stove with 54" to ceiling the ceiling finished height is 86" stove is about 30 to the top and raised up one full brick from the finish floor making it 2" too short. My first response was to get all the code books and take tis inspector to school. Then I figured I will just get a piece of hardi backed board ( purchased it tonight) using 3/8" copper pipe cut 1" pieces for spacers and install it on the ceiling above this reduces the requirement distances by 66%. Better do it this way than argue with him eventhough 36" is listed in all codes I still need his signature.. Today I'm on the other side of the fence. I know by code IT is a non issue I'm 16" greater that NFPA 211. I should have bought the Englander NCP-13 for a few $ more. I could turn this post into 100 code refferences where compliance is not needed when replaing alike heating equipment in existing situations. Hell the inspector making the decision never saw NFPA 211 till I showed him today and that the listing says to install to NFPA 211 compliance This office does not have any International mechanical codes books.
his suggestion was to return the stove and purchase another without ceiling clearances listed. I explained I can't do it and that people all over the country donated the money to purchase theis stove. In the End I will put ceiling protection up according to NFPA 211 guidlines and move on
his suggestion was to return the stove and purchase another without ceiling clearances listed. I explained I can't do it and that people all over the country donated the money to purchase theis stove. In the End I will put ceiling protection up according to NFPA 211 guidlines and move on
biggins08
New Member
GVA
Minister of Fire
GVA thats right 54" is listed in the 2 page pamphlet that came with the stove. I never looked or even thought to look as no stove I ever inspected required more than the NFPA 36"
Just like you This caught me by suprise. I could buy a used stove manufacturer unknown and install it and be ok For some reason Century list 54 " now with a blower installed blowing air acrost the front and over the top, heat will never get to criticle levels above thi sstove. I explained this to the inspector, but I might as well talked to my dog. He said to get CFM to give him something in writting to waiver the situation. I told him CFM is not going to spend 120k for re-testing the stove to satisfy him. and that they cannot modify UL listing without re-testing.
So fo all those who purchase Century stoves and install them on a raised hearth, be for warned. This also applies to Dutch West plate steel stoves as well
In the end I will make the situation right and install the NFPA 211 approved reduced clearance reduction on the ceiling
Just like you This caught me by suprise. I could buy a used stove manufacturer unknown and install it and be ok For some reason Century list 54 " now with a blower installed blowing air acrost the front and over the top, heat will never get to criticle levels above thi sstove. I explained this to the inspector, but I might as well talked to my dog. He said to get CFM to give him something in writting to waiver the situation. I told him CFM is not going to spend 120k for re-testing the stove to satisfy him. and that they cannot modify UL listing without re-testing.
So fo all those who purchase Century stoves and install them on a raised hearth, be for warned. This also applies to Dutch West plate steel stoves as well
In the end I will make the situation right and install the NFPA 211 approved reduced clearance reduction on the ceiling
webbie
Seasoned Moderator
I've seen stoves that are 48" - but 54 is a bit crazy! - I guess when they put it in a room and paint it black, etc.
That's funny that you failed an inspection! Now you can see how hard it is for the average joe. If I were the inspector I would have probably let it go - we all know it is safe in this case. Oh well, a piece of sheet metal will fit it!
That's funny that you failed an inspection! Now you can see how hard it is for the average joe. If I were the inspector I would have probably let it go - we all know it is safe in this case. Oh well, a piece of sheet metal will fit it!
DriftWood
Minister of Fire
This could have made a fortune in u-tube royalties had the press shown up as the word spread of the stove guy expert who didn't read the installation instructions before he bought a stove. The expression on his face priceless!! o well if at first you do not succeed try, try again. May dad said if he dident do most things twice, something was wrong. Good thing you pulled a permit!!
DriftWood
Minister of Fire
Live and learn form our mistakes, I sure this install will work out fine. you guys did do a great job and fixed a fire trap before the fire, GREAT JOB!!
Webmaster said:
shoe is on the other foot most of my post are to help others to avoid these situations. Rather than argue I'm just going to install hardibacker board and let them paint it after inspections
It's not worth to fight city hall all the time. Yes to all that want to dump on me. I screwed up. Great news for Homefire But in the end I will do what the inspector will sign off on with little posturing and arguing. I could have kept it all to myself, but also figured that other can learn from my mistakes
restorer
New Member
Elk,
Make it right. Do the reflector plate, go through the system and then ask the questions. No sense getting in a spitting match over regulations. Make the install right. I admire you for being up front about the oversight. Seems strange to me, but I have seen worse regs. (had to put a safety glass window in a door that was 125 years old, because I substantially altered the door and it needed to be code compliant. Took seven layers of bad paint off and a good spar varnish finish.) Oh well, the door has no lead paint and now you can't break the glass.
Those of us who work in the day to day world of dealing with administrative regulations do so gracefully or take the crap from everyone. I am a craftsman, but I am not recognized by my state as a trade. Go figure. Everything I do with a permit is questioned. I just do it to their standards and let it go. Elk did the work to a quality standard that is "usually accepted as standard." Takes an anal retentive jerk to be so picky. And takes an equally retentive prick to criticize his efforts.
Make it right. Do the reflector plate, go through the system and then ask the questions. No sense getting in a spitting match over regulations. Make the install right. I admire you for being up front about the oversight. Seems strange to me, but I have seen worse regs. (had to put a safety glass window in a door that was 125 years old, because I substantially altered the door and it needed to be code compliant. Took seven layers of bad paint off and a good spar varnish finish.) Oh well, the door has no lead paint and now you can't break the glass.
Those of us who work in the day to day world of dealing with administrative regulations do so gracefully or take the crap from everyone. I am a craftsman, but I am not recognized by my state as a trade. Go figure. Everything I do with a permit is questioned. I just do it to their standards and let it go. Elk did the work to a quality standard that is "usually accepted as standard." Takes an anal retentive jerk to be so picky. And takes an equally retentive prick to criticize his efforts.
colsmith
Feeling the Heat
There has to be 40" between our stove and the ceiling. We made quite a raised hearth, and almost wound up too close to the ceiling. We had a few inches to spare, thank goodness, as that was one of the things the town inspector measured. If it had been a little too close we could have used a solution similar to what you are planning, use something non-combustible and then go with the NFPA 211 code and be at least 36" away from the ceiling. Both options are listed in our manual. But we spent so much time measuring wall distances, we didn't think very much about the ceiling.
How ironic that you would fail an inspection on a stove, and how noble of you to share the experience here.
How ironic that you would fail an inspection on a stove, and how noble of you to share the experience here.
babalu87
New Member
54"
How did they come up with that number? I would think the stove isnt designed to project heat OUT into the living space if it has a height requirement like that, seems all the heat ( and they are admitting to it) goes straight up.
EDIT!
This isnt all that uncommon. Do the codes need to be updated to be more in line with the manufacturers? What law should be followed, "federal" or "state"?
The Isle Royale lists the clearance to the ceiling from the stove top at 53" if it is vented out the top of the stove. Rear vent is listed as 36". What is puzzling me is the stove that is made of cast iron needs to be 53" from the ceiling but the stove pipe can be 18" from the ceiling? This is where HOT gas and sometimes a little fire go through a thin piece of sheet metal.
My Morso gives the same 54" clearance for an alcove and the same 18" for the stove pipe. I never gave it any thought because I used the codes for the installation and have much more than 36" from the stove top to the ceiling. How many of us have stoves that arent installed properly? We only have a short hearth pad and I still am only 7 inches below the manufacturers recommendation? Morso only lists alcove height but I would assume it is the same as an open install?
How did they come up with that number? I would think the stove isnt designed to project heat OUT into the living space if it has a height requirement like that, seems all the heat ( and they are admitting to it) goes straight up.
EDIT!
This isnt all that uncommon. Do the codes need to be updated to be more in line with the manufacturers? What law should be followed, "federal" or "state"?
The Isle Royale lists the clearance to the ceiling from the stove top at 53" if it is vented out the top of the stove. Rear vent is listed as 36". What is puzzling me is the stove that is made of cast iron needs to be 53" from the ceiling but the stove pipe can be 18" from the ceiling? This is where HOT gas and sometimes a little fire go through a thin piece of sheet metal.
My Morso gives the same 54" clearance for an alcove and the same 18" for the stove pipe. I never gave it any thought because I used the codes for the installation and have much more than 36" from the stove top to the ceiling. How many of us have stoves that arent installed properly? We only have a short hearth pad and I still am only 7 inches below the manufacturers recommendation? Morso only lists alcove height but I would assume it is the same as an open install?
Bill
Minister of Fire
I have had my share of problems with inspectors, sometimes it seems they make stuff up as they go. It's also my experience that if everything is right they find some dumb thing to make you change. I have even had them make me change something code compliant to an illegal installation.
But this may sum up the general opinion of building inspectors in my community. If you have municipal plates and get a parking ticket, which by the way they shouldn't do, if you are on the job, the sergeant at the police department will sign the ticket and void it, but the first thing he asks you is are you a building inspector? If you say yes he tells you to pay the ticket.
But this may sum up the general opinion of building inspectors in my community. If you have municipal plates and get a parking ticket, which by the way they shouldn't do, if you are on the job, the sergeant at the police department will sign the ticket and void it, but the first thing he asks you is are you a building inspector? If you say yes he tells you to pay the ticket.
- Status
Similar threads
