Earth Stove Insert not very hot

[jgcable]

I have The Earth Stove pellet stove fireplace insert. Model # NF2000i
I have a brand new liner, coupler top hat etc... all spec per the owners manual. My chimney is about 30' tall.
Anyway, I have tried a few different brands of pellets and I notice the same results everytime.

Stove has low, 2 mediums and 1 high settings and a separate fan control to blow the hot air in the house.
On low I get barely luke warm air
On medium 1 I get warm air
On medium 2 the air is warmer
On high the air is hot.
After burning 1 40lb bag I notice I have a fair amount of soot in the pan and in the firebox. It also builds up on the glass door quickly.
If I have the stove on medium 2 or high it burns a complete bag in about 12 hours.
I have talked to other people and they tell me they can set their stove on medium and it cranks out heat and they burn 1 bag per day. I can also burn 1 bag a day but the air coming out of my stove is just warm and not enough to notice any heat unless you are standing right in front of it.
Per my owners manual it says to make sure the intake vent door is wide open if I am getting alot of soot and not alot of heat. My vent door is fully open.
Is there anything else I should check or adjust?
Should I call a professional to come over and check it out?
I would rather learn to do it myself but I don't know what to adjust.
I don't have any unburned pellets in the firebox. Just alot of soot.
It also seems like the room fan is very loud and even at its lowest setting it blows pretty hard.

 

[imacman]

Can you tell us more about the stove? Did you buy it used, or are you the original owners? Has it ever put out warmer air? The soot...is it black, or grey in color? What brand of pellets are you using? When was the last time the stove was pulled out and completely cleaned?

 

[jgcable]

Can you tell us more about the stove? Did you buy it used, or are you the original owners? Has it ever put out warmer air? The soot...is it black, or grey in color? What brand of pellets are you using? When was the last time the stove was pulled out and completely cleaned?

I bought it used last year. I used it for the very end of last season. The pellets I used last year were from Lowes. They were called Green Team. The pellets I am using this year are from Home Depot and they are called Freedom Fuel.

I thoroughly cleaned the stove before I installed it. I also put a few new gaskets in it.
The soot is gray.
The stove has been working the same way since I got it.
It puts such a small amount of heat out on LOW its almost not even worth being on.
On medium 1 its a little better heat but nothing great
On medium 2 it burns good. It has a white to yellow flame and the heat coming out is good but it blows through pellets like crazy.
On high its a blowtorch but it really runs through pellets.
Regarding pellet useage...
LOW 1 bag a day but there is barely any heat coming out at all
MEDIUM 1 1-1/2 bags a day but the heat is just luke warm
MEDIUM 2 1-3/4 bags a day and the heat is hot.
HIGH 2 bags a day and the heat is wicked hot.
I get the same amount of soot regardless
The room fan control only adjusts the fan from what I would consider medium to high. Even with the knob turnd to the slowest setting its still pretty powerful.
There is an adjustment for auger speed and feed rate but I would assume they are both at the factory settings because the intake damper door is factory set fully open and mine hasn't been touched.
I also notice that the entire insert doesn't get very hot. The air coming out is hot on the higher settings but the unit itself isn't hot like a wood burning stove.
Also, my unit is suppose to have an air wash that keeps the glass from getting all sooted up. After about 3 bags you can't even see through the glass anymore. Something isn't right.

 

[imacman]

IMO, this sounds like either a dirty stove, or the blowers are either very dirty or old/weak. When you cleaned it, did you remove both blowers and clean them completely? What about any heat exchanger tubes and ash traps?

Also, the Freedom Fuel is far from the best pellet you can burn. They are mediocre, at best.

 

[imacman]

....I also notice that the entire insert doesn't get very hot. The air coming out is hot on the higher settings but the unit itself isn't hot like a wood burning stove......

If this is your first pellet stove, be aware that pellet stoves are NOT supposed to get hot like a wood burning stove (except the glass and door).....if the outside got like that, there would be something wrong.

 

[jgcable]

....I also notice that the entire insert doesn't get very hot. The air coming out is hot on the higher settings but the unit itself isn't hot like a wood burning stove......

If this is your first pellet stove, be aware that pellet stoves are NOT supposed to get hot like a wood burning stove (except the glass and door).....if the outside got like that, there would be something wrong.

Its my first stove period.

 

[imacman]

....I also notice that the entire insert doesn't get very hot. The air coming out is hot on the higher settings but the unit itself isn't hot like a wood burning stove......

If this is your first pellet stove, be aware that pellet stoves are NOT supposed to get hot like a wood burning stove (except the glass and door).....if the outside got like that, there would be something wrong.

Its my first stove period.

It might be worth your time to take a trip to a local pellet stove dealer who has a demo unit running, or who will fire one up for you. At least you'll get an idea what they are supposed to be like, heat wise.

 

[jgcable]

IMO, this sounds like either a dirty stove, or the blowers are either very dirty or old/weak. When you cleaned it, did you remove both blowers and clean them completely? What about any heat exchanger tubes and ash traps?

Also, the Freedom Fuel is far from the best pellet you can burn. They are mediocre, at best.

The stove isn't dirty. Are blowers the little fans on the back of the unit? If so, they are very clean. In my non-expert opinion, the flame appears to be extremely hot but the air doesn't come out as hot as it looks.
I was told by a few people that it could be the pellets but the reviews I read on Freedom Fuel is very good.
I think I need a hotter burning pellet.
What about the feed rate? Is it normal to burn 2 bags a day on high??

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

IMO, this sounds like either a dirty stove, or the blowers are either very dirty or old/weak. When you cleaned it, did you remove both blowers and clean them completely? What about any heat exchanger tubes and ash traps?

Also, the Freedom Fuel is far from the best pellet you can burn. They are mediocre, at best.

The stove isn't dirty. Are blowers the little fans on the back of the unit? If so, they are very clean. In my non-expert opinion, the flame appears to be extremely hot but the air doesn't come out as hot as it looks.
I was told by a few people that it could be the pellets but the reviews I read on Freedom Fuel is very good.
I think I need a hotter burning pellet.
What about the feed rate? Is it normal to burn 2 bags a day on high??

You need to cut the damper back, you are in all likelihood sending the heat up that 30' stack.

You adjust it a bit at a time starting with a small opening.

You use the flame color and soot color not the amount of soot.

The amount of soot is a function of the pellet you are burning.

 

[jgcable]

IMO, this sounds like either a dirty stove, or the blowers are either very dirty or old/weak. When you cleaned it, did you remove both blowers and clean them completely? What about any heat exchanger tubes and ash traps?

Also, the Freedom Fuel is far from the best pellet you can burn. They are mediocre, at best.

The stove isn't dirty. Are blowers the little fans on the back of the unit? If so, they are very clean. In my non-expert opinion, the flame appears to be extremely hot but the air doesn't come out as hot as it looks.
I was told by a few people that it could be the pellets but the reviews I read on Freedom Fuel is very good.
I think I need a hotter burning pellet.
What about the feed rate? Is it normal to burn 2 bags a day on high??

You need to cut the damper back, you are in all likelihood sending the heat up that 30' stack.

You adjust it a bit at a time starting with a small opening.

You use the flame color and soot color not the amount of soot.

The amount of soot is a function of the pellet you are burning.

Thanks for the response. What color soot should I have? My Air Shutter currently is fully open. How much should I close it at first?
Its a nightmare to get to it. I have to use socket extensions, a flashlight and a mirror so that I can see it. Its a tough adjustment but I could handle it. Should I close it 1/2 way to start? My chimney runs up the center of my house but its 30' from the stove to the top of it.

The damper I am talking about is called the Air Shutter.
This is what it says in the manual:
AIR SHUTTER ADJUSTMENT:
Combustion air is drawn into the firebox through this air shutter. It is adjusted at the factory in a full open powition. It may be possible to adust this shutter to bring the fire to a less active flame.

LACK OF COMBUSTION AIR:
Open shutter more for a maximum combustion air. Symptoms of insufficient air include, unburned fuel, lazy orange flame, excessive ash or soot, excessive build up on glass.
REASONS TO OPEN SHUTTER:
HIgh altitude-Lack of oxygen
Restrictive venting(elboys, horizontal runs, cold external chimneys etc..
Dirty/Poor quality fuel

EXCESSIVE COMBUSTION AIR:
Close shutter to a smaller opening for less combustion air. Symptoms of excessive air include, fuel burns too quickly results in smoking or smoldering pellets, white to yellow flame, tec.
REASONS TO CLOSE SHUTTER:
Long vertical run of venting
Adjust for better flame aesthetics.

 

[EarthStove]

I would not mess with the air shutter. That controls the amount of air getting to the pellets for burning.

My guess would be that the tubes above the plate are coated with ash and need to be completely cleaned off. When our earthstove heat output diminishes it's usually the heat tubes that are coated with fly ash. The "soot" you speak of is probably burned pellets (ash) which would be normal.

 

[EarthStove]

Oh with regards to burn rates.

Your stove has what sounds like the newer control boards. My stove only has low, med and high for the feed rate. On low you can expect to get 16 to perhaps 18 hours of burn on this setting. Heat output is usually enough to keep a room comfortable on a 50 degree day. Depending on the heat output of the pellets you are burning you will probably have to keep the room blower on a manual speed setting. On medium you can expect to get about 10 to 12 hours of burn time per 40lb bag. We can easily keep most of our 2200 sq ft house around 70 to 75f. The room where the stove is is closer to 80f. On high you will only get about 8 hours of burn per 40lb bag. When on medium and high we almost always keep the blower knob on automatic. The blower will kick on when the stove reaches temperature and it blows out very hot air.

 

[jgcable]

I would not mess with the air shutter. That controls the amount of air getting to the pellets for burning.

My guess would be that the tubes above the plate are coated with ash and need to be completely cleaned off. When our earthstove heat output diminishes it's usually the heat tubes that are coated with fly ash. The "soot" you speak of is probably burned pellets (ash) which would be normal.

How do I get to those tubes.My manual says to remove the baffle plate but it doesn't tell how to do it. Hopefully its something that can be removed from the front because this is a fireplace insert and its attached to the liner that goes up the chimney.

 

[relxn88]

EXCESSIVE COMBUSTION AIR:
Close shutter to a smaller opening for less combustion air. Symptoms of excessive air include, fuel burns too quickly results in smoking or smoldering pellets, white to yellow flame, tec.
REASONS TO CLOSE SHUTTER:
Long vertical run of venting
Adjust for better flame aesthetics.

I have a St.Croix insert and my combustion air inlet is on 1 out of 10. There is so much draft from the 25' exhaust that if I open it up more, the pellets just burn faster and the heat gets sucked right out the exhaust. The stand-alone units have it opened up considerably more due to the short exhaust runs. Don't know if this is your problem, but it's something to think about. Also, stick a meat thermometer in the room heat openings and let us know what your temps are. You can also use the meat thermometer to determine what settings work best on your stove.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

All of these stoves have a trade off when it comes to air intake, you want grey soot on the back wall above the firepot, the flame should be yellow/orange and have hints of blue just above the pellets.

The glass should get a grey or even brown film on it, you do not want a black tipped large loopy orange flame (aka lazy flame).

The goal is to get an active flame a bit before where closing the damper would cause a lazy flame. You don't want a blowtorch flame.

A lot of draft will cause a lot of the heat to exit the stove through the vent, you want it to heat up the heat exchanger and be blown out of the stove into the room.

A 30' high venting system can have a very large draw once it gets warmed up or if there is a breeze blowing across its mouth.

It is also possible that the air intake on the convection system is partially obstructed, this can be the result of a dirty convection blower, something crawled or was placed in the convection intake or in the convection outlet tubes.

Kids have been known to insert toys into various openings on pellet stoves thus interfering with the convection air system.

I was taking your word that the stove was clean, if the heat exchanger isn't clean then your convection air system will not be extracting as much of the heat as is possible from the stove.

These devices are simply two loops of pipe with a flame contained within one of the loops and heating the air being sucked in and pushed through the other loop which is passed through the loop with the flame in it.

These are really simple devices the single most important thing to remember about these stoves is it is all in the air paths. The air path on the convection side must be kept clean and the air path on the combustion side must be kept clean and at the minimum air flow to sustain a proper fire.

Everything else is bells and whistles (a complication and potential trouble causer).

 

[EarthStove]

I would not mess with the air shutter. That controls the amount of air getting to the pellets for burning.

My guess would be that the tubes above the plate are coated with ash and need to be completely cleaned off. When our earthstove heat output diminishes it's usually the heat tubes that are coated with fly ash. The "soot" you speak of is probably burned pellets (ash) which would be normal.

How do I get to those tubes.My manual says to remove the baffle plate but it doesn't tell how to do it. Hopefully its something that can be removed from the front because this is a fireplace insert and its attached to the liner that goes up the chimney.

On our stove the baffle plate is easily removed from the front of the stove. You just reach in and put the palms of your hands on it lift a little and then slide towards you and up a little more. The back drops off the lip of the stove and then I let it drop almost all the way to the bottom of the stove and then push forward so that the front of the plate will slide out as well.

 

[jgcable]

OK, here is what I did yesterday.
I removed the top plate. There was some soot buildup on the plate itself but not bad at all. The rectangular pipes above it were clean.
The soot in the firebox and the drawer is tan colored.
I then went around the back of the unit and I closed the intake damper cover 1/2 way. It was originally fully open from the factory.
My insert is a manual start. I follow this procedure:
Turn the unit on and push start button
Wait until the pellets stop feeding and I break out the propane torch and fire the pellets up.
I then close the door and it takes about 10 minutes to get out of start mode and the stove fires up.
Maybe its just coincedance but... I got a misfire this time (the red start light flashes on and off). This means the stove wasn't hot enough to start. I had to hit the start button again and wait for the pellets to feed and open the door and fire up the pellets again. When I closed the door the fire went out instantly. I then had to open the door and fire them up again.This releases some smoke into the house which my wife doesn't appreciate!! It did light this time. Does this have anything to do with the intake damper door I adjusted?
Now.. on to the burn...

On LOW its not even worth having on. Barely warm air. I am guessing this is just a setting to keep the stove on and it must not be intended for heating purposes..
LOW 1 Luke warm air. Good if you are sitting directly in front of the stove.
Both of these settings cause more soot and the glass on my door gets covered in about 6 hours on either of these settings.
MEDIUM 1 warm air.
Medium 2 fairly hot air. This is the setting I use the most. It will heat the entire 1st floor of my house which is around 1200sq/ft from 64 degrees to 69 degrees in about 3 hours.
High. This is blast furnace hot. It goes through pellets like crap through a goose but it throws out tremendous heat.

What I am concerned about is the amount of tan soot and the starting procedure which seems to be harder than it should be.

Did I do the wrong thing adjusting the intake damper door from fully open to 1/2 open? My chimney is 30' long and is located in the center of my house. Thanks!

 

[imacman]

Since this is a manual start stove, I would try starting by putting a decent sized handful (or 2) of pellets into the burnpot before hitting the start button, and then hit the pellets w/ the torch.....should get the stove hot sooner and allow POF (proof of fire) switch to close sooner.

When you closed the door and the fire "went out instantly", did it look like blowing out a candle?

 

[jgcable]

Since this is a manual start stove, I would try starting by putting a decent sized handful (or 2) of pellets into the burnpot before hitting the start button, and then hit the pellets w/ the torch.....should get the stove hot sooner and allow POF (proof of fire) switch to close sooner.

When you closed the door and the fire "went out instantly", did it look like blowing out a candle?

Yes, it looked like blowing out a candle although there were some red hot pellets in there. I was thinking the same thing. It seemed like there wasn't enough pellets in there.
Is tan soot what its supposed to look like?

 

[jgcable]

One more thing... since I adjusted the intake damper door from fully open to half open the flame went from very bright light yellow at the base to a little lazy orange through the middle to the tip of the flame to very bright light yellow uniformally throughout the flame. The stove certainly appears to be burning hotter. Since making this adjustment the stove seems to be burning hotter.

 

[imacman]

In my experience, soot/ash should be from a light grey to tan when close to correct combustion is present.

As for the flame color, what you want to see when the stove is adjusted & running right is a light yellow/orange flame with a hint of blue right at the base of the flame near the burning pellets. Any dark orange, or long, lazy orange with "blackish" tips is not good, and indicates lack of air.

 

[jgcable]

In my experience, soot/ash should be from a light grey to tan when close to correct combustion is present.

As for the flame color, what you want to see when the stove is adjusted & running right is a light yellow/orange flame with a hint of blue right at the base of the flame near the burning pellets. Any dark orange, or long, lazy orange with "blackish" tips is not good, and indicates lack of air.

My soot/ash is light gray to tan.
My flame color since I adjusted the intake damper door from fully open to 1/2 open is not a light yellow/orange flame. There is a hint of blue at the base. There is no dark orange or blackish tips at all.

Another thing that I am concerned about is the amount of soot/ash around the firepot and in the drawer. After 2 bags I had a fair amount of light gray to tan soot/ash. Based on the amount I had after 2 bags I would say I need to clean out the drawer every 3-4 bags. I have read posts where people have left their pellet stoves on for a week straight. I would never be able to do that because I have to turn off the stove and let it cool down before I remove the ash drawer... right??

Anyway, it seems like maybe my pellet stove insert is running good based on the info I am getting here.
I wish I new for sure though. I will try the meat thermometer tonight and post the results on all the settings.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

I have owned a couple Earth Stoves (pellet) and the last one was a WP50 Free standing unit.

The heat exchanger tubes were tough to clean well and for its size the stove did not put out nearly as much heat for any given amount of fuel being burned as many of the smaller units of different brands.

If your heat exchanger tubes are as clean as you can get them on the "fire side" you have done pretty much all you can do.

Without actually seeing the heat exchanger tubes and the stove itself, its hard to really give you a solid answer.

Can you snap some High res piicy's of the heat exchanger area and the other main parts of the stove.

Now here is one thought.

My WP 50 had a steel plate that sat directly above the fire and just below the heat exchanger tubes. The plate on that stove sat on a ledge and needed to be shifted all the way to the Far right side of the stove (looking from the front.

This plate is directly under the heat tubes and above the fire.

This forced the hot gasses to travel up the LH side of the stove and down around the several rows of heat tubes before going up and out the stack.

If your top plate is shifted the wrong way the hot gases will not go around the tubes but instead bypass them and go right up the stack.

Check this out and shift that plate accordingly.

It should be obvious as to how to set the plate to make the hot gasses travel around all the tubes before exiting the stove.


Dont worry so much about the ash, normal is a brownish gray and you should see about 1% ash for any given amount of fuel burned.

The window will smoke up in time. The Earth stoves airwash system was not all that effective at keeping the glass really clean.

Set the draft/air control to get a nice active fire. Not a blow torch but not lazy either.

Full yellow flame is good with light blue possibly at the base.

My guess is that the plate directly over the fire is set to the wrong side of the firebox.



Give this a look see and keep us posted

Snowy

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The efficiency of some of those Earth Stoves was rather low.

Provided you are up to yet another change I think from your description you could close that damper some more.

Definitely check the positioning of that plate Snowy mentioned and adjust it if needed.

 

[jgcable]

I have owned a couple Earth Stoves (pellet) and the last one was a WP50 Free standing unit.

The heat exchanger tubes were tough to clean well and for its size the stove did not put out nearly as much heat for any given amount of fuel being burned as many of the smaller units of different brands.

If your heat exchanger tubes are as clean as you can get them on the "fire side" you have done pretty much all you can do.

Without actually seeing the heat exchanger tubes and the stove itself, its hard to really give you a solid answer.

Can you snap some High res piicy's of the heat exchanger area and the other main parts of the stove.

Now here is one thought.

My WP 50 had a steel plate that sat directly above the fire and just below the heat exchanger tubes. The plate on that stove sat on a ledge and needed to be shifted all the way to the Far right side of the stove (looking from the front.

This plate is directly under the heat tubes and above the fire.

This forced the hot gasses to travel up the LH side of the stove and down around the several rows of heat tubes before going up and out the stack.

If your top plate is shifted the wrong way the hot gases will not go around the tubes but instead bypass them and go right up the stack.

Check this out and shift that plate accordingly.

It should be obvious as to how to set the plate to make the hot gasses travel around all the tubes before exiting the stove.


Dont worry so much about the ash, normal is a brownish gray and you should see about 1% ash for any given amount of fuel burned.

The window will smoke up in time. The Earth stoves airwash system was not all that effective at keeping the glass really clean.

Set the draft/air control to get a nice active fire. Not a blow torch but not lazy either.

Full yellow flame is good with light blue possibly at the base.

My guess is that the plate directly over the fire is set to the wrong side of the firebox.



Give this a look see and keep us posted

Snowy

I will have to check out that plate. When I reinstalled it yesterday after cleaning it off I centered it above the firebox. I am sure it shifted when I installed the stove originally because I had to turn the unit on its side to get it through the door. I noticed that it is a rectangular plate but one corner of it is cut at an angle. I will look in there tonight and see what side its supposed to be shifted over to.
Hopefully its obvious.