Stumbled across this the other day. Might be of interest for people who are torn between having a gasifying boiler inside or outside.
http://www.alternativefuelboilers.com/products.htm
http://www.alternativefuelboilers.com/products.htm
Econoburn enters the O.W.B. market
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Finally, an outdoor gasifying boiler that will really work. These boilers are built just like the indoor Econoburn boilers, but with a weather proof shelter. The Outdoor Econoburns should really put Central Boiler's gasifier to shame.
Frozen Canuck
Minister of Fire
Happy to see this, finally a unit that can be measured along side any other OWB in an equal test. Looking forward to some real world results from these units.
altheating
New Member
Wow, you guys don't miss a trick! I just finished updating my web pages regarding the new Outdoor Econoburn. Yes the new Outdoor Econoburn is now available. The Outdoor Econoburn will be at the NY Farm Show next week at the NYS Fair Grounds in Syracuse. Thee outdoor units feature the same high quality construction as the indoor models with a weatherproof enclosure. They also have a air induction pre heater that keeps the efficiency as high as possible. The duct system takes a bit of heat off of the water jacket and warms the forced air draft instead of forcing cold or freezing cold air into the fire box. I just finished updating my web page with all the new brochures and literature and tech info. Come see the Outdoor Econoburn at the NY Farm Show.
altheating
New Member
Oops, almost forgot! I am told that you can purchase a Outdoor Econoburn for the same price as a Indoor Econoburn and even receive the $1500 Federal Tax Credit on either unit, but only until March 31st.
And to think I used to take this site seriously 
I really do have to chuckle at the finger tapping drama queen flip/floping canuck though!
I really do have to chuckle at the finger tapping drama queen flip/floping canuck though!
It isn't really an O.W.B. in regard to water storage. This is a real gasifier, they just built a shelter around their existing units. I guess you could call it a "wolf in sheep's clothing".
WoodNotOil
Minister of Fire
vinrum said:
Just to clarify things a bit... No gassification boiler has to have heat storage. If sized correctly to the heat load and filled regularly they can heat your house very well without storage. Storage offers the flexibility of storing the heat up for when there is no fire so that you can burn at your convenience. It also smooths out burning in the shoulder season and allows your to produce DHW in the summer. It can also increase efficiency slightly by causing the boiler to not need to idle at all. For maximum flexibility you can actually size the boiler larger than your demand and get away with less firing/loading.
While traditional OWBs usually have more water in them (several hundred gallons) this is not the same thing as heat storage as we talk about with gasification boilers. For one thing a traditional OWB lacks enough insulation to hold onto that heat all that long when there is not a fire and all of the water is in the jacket which does not allowing for a quick rise in boiler temp to meet heating demands. (not to mention all the other air quality issues you get from them...)
So the short answer to your question is... The Outdoor Econoburn does not have a large water volume in the jacket, does not require storage if it is correctly sized to heat demand, and would give you the features mentioned above if storage was used in conjunction.
Vinrum, i suspect as with most gasifiers to stop idling, proper sized storage would be a good thing
Como
Minister of Fire
That makes an indoor gasifier easy. I put my Eko 25 in a 6x6 shed to make it look like an OWB. My wife says it looks more like an outhouse though. My shed cost 300 bucks and took about 10-12 hrs to make including the concrete pad. I like it cause I can hold 2 days supply of wood in it and it dries out some while in the shed. I also like standing in the shed while the wind is howling and I can stay in the 60-80 degree shed while loading the stove. In summer I will put shovels and hoes in it.
altheating
I don't suppose you've had a chance to see one of these units yet...but that's not going to stop me from asking questions anyway.
How much chimney does this unit require? Can you see any disadvantages to an enclosed boiler? I'm thinking access for cleaning or repairs might be impaired by the shell. What is the insulation value of the shell?
Thanks!
I don't suppose you've had a chance to see one of these units yet...but that's not going to stop me from asking questions anyway.
How much chimney does this unit require? Can you see any disadvantages to an enclosed boiler? I'm thinking access for cleaning or repairs might be impaired by the shell. What is the insulation value of the shell?
Thanks!
altheating
New Member
The units are built with 3" of closed cell, high temperature , spray foam. As far as the cleaning being hampered. The outer shell has been designed to give full access to annual cleaning. Much thought has gone into the outdoor model. The remainder of the unit is the same as the indoor model with the exception of the air induction preheating ducting. I have uploaded the tech sheets and FAQ's to my web page if you want more info. http://www.altheating.com
Chimney length can be increased to accommodate codes requirements or environmental needs. I know several localities are requiring 16' plus chimney height for any OWB including gasifiers.
Chimney length can be increased to accommodate codes requirements or environmental needs. I know several localities are requiring 16' plus chimney height for any OWB including gasifiers.
hhhhmmmm... I wonder if I can make my own shell for my Tarm and put it outside? NAh... I like walking into my basement when it is cold and windy.. and having my wood supply there. Only one place better I can imagine. A tarm room with adjoining wood storage in an attached garage. Wood can be driven in on home made pallets with tractor. Sorry..off topic. I wonder why the europeans didn't come up with this idea for their models? There must be a reason they did not go this route. Where is Hanson?... I want him to weigh in on this.
Como
Minister of Fire
For the reasons you stated.
There would be a very small market for OWB's, even gassifying ones
Some manufacturers do provide buildings that integrate with their product, which seems a more logical solution.
There would be a very small market for OWB's, even gassifying ones
Some manufacturers do provide buildings that integrate with their product, which seems a more logical solution.
Tony H
Minister of Fire
Why buy one of these outhouse looking things when you can put up a nice looking shed instead. The shed is more usefull and less expensive I for one can not see any reason to purchase one of these type units.
Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
Tony H said:
I tend to agree from a personal preference standpoint, but there still seem to be a lot of people that like the OWB / outhouse form factor - and I see nothing wrong with selling people what they want to buy...
Definite case of "let the market decide" - if the units don't sell, I'm sure Econoburn will stop making them, but I suspect that they will do pretty well with them...
As to the reason why the Euroboiler folks haven't done something similar, I suspect it is because the average property sizes in the EU are much smaller, and people are closer together, so the tendency there is to put the boilers indoors - thus less of a market....
One thing that I sort of wonder about is what that extra 3" insulation shell does for the unit's efficiency - would there be any advantage to trying to put something like that around an indoor unit, whether it is in an outside shed or in a basement boiler room, in order to reduce heat loss from the boiler? Keep the boiler room cooler, and presumably increase the amount of heat available to transfer into the water jacket...
Gooserider
Tony H said:
Are you talking about a shed like this :
http://www.steelsheds.com/
AFAIK, Man has been around here locally for about 40 years, and can custom build a out-building for you.
DISCLAIMER : I am NOT and employee or any other way connected to them, but just a very satisfied 2nd generation user of their products
Como
Minister of Fire
I'd have to agree with Goose. Whether you put this thing outside or inside a shed 3 inches of extra insulation has got to be a good thing. Especially if there is no additional cost.
Tony H said:
I can see a HUGE market for these, just look at all the thousands of OWB's that have been sold. The problem is the owb manufacturers have sold people on the idea that you can fill them up with green unsplit wood and they will burn for 48hr's. AND they WILL, just not well and with alot of smoke. They have sold thousands because all you have to do is set them on the ground, run some slighty insulated pipe underground, hook to a radiator in the flue, put a sidearm in and presto you have free heat and DHW. Sure you had to cut alot of wood but there is wood every where and you just cut when you need it. Green wood would burn better because if you put dry wood in it would burn up to fast and you would have to go out again that evening to add more. Now any company that doesn't understand that appeal will not be successful sell them. CB has been the model.
If econoburn understands that market and REALLY goes about EDUCATING the people and shows them that burned properly and used properly that they can have most of the advantages and inturn will have a unit that burns ALOT less wood, doesn't smoke, and can be tended about the same (with storage). They can't burn green wood, must split, and have a place to keep the wood dry. But with education most people will see the benifits. I've always felt that the best way to not have alot of stupid regulation is with education. If you build a better product the bad stuff will mostly go away, IF and that is a big IF you educate the people that you really do have a better product.
With this being a US company they should under stand the US market better and understand why people want to buy a OWB. I for one hope they are hugely successful as this is the best way to stop the GOV from getting involved and screwing up peoples inovative ideas. Let the market work but have the companies and gov educate, educate, educate. Of course someone has to educate the gov first.
leaddog
Como said:PJF1313 said:
I like this sort of think, cut away for clarity.
On the right hand side - that's for storage of wood?
Como
Minister of Fire
In that picture I think it is for pellets.
The problem is with OWB's is that they are environmentally unfriendly, and you simply could not get away with that sort of pollution elsewhere.
The problem is with OWB's is that they are environmentally unfriendly, and you simply could not get away with that sort of pollution elsewhere.
Como said:
The problem with that statement is you are putting all OWB's in the same statement. Now would you say the econoburn owb is the same as the traditional owb. No but that is what is being perceived when the gov is talking about OWB. And that is what most people will think. That's why we really need education. Like I said before if people are educated they will by and large make the right choices.
leaddog
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