Econoburn w/out storage?

[jklingel]

As we now have an Econoburn dealer in town, (Frb AK) their product line is looking more interesting. The sales guy at ABS AK just said that Econo does not really push heat storage tanks w/ their boilers, "unless you'll be gone a while". I don't think there is any question that a storage tank would be more efficient, but I assume that the de-emphasis on storage is a pay-back period issue, as storage tanks are not free. So my question is this: Are any of you still running Econoburns w/out storage, and if so, how is it working? Does the house temp fluctuate a lot? Do you feed the boiler fairly often? Etc. My situation will mandate that I have an oil burner as well, probably set up completely independently. I will be heating a day-light basement and one-story, approx 5K sqr ft in total. I'll be at home most of the time during the main part of the heating season, so throwing wood in now and then will not often be a hassle. So, is a heat storage tank recommended anyway, or should I just accommodate one in my design and try it solo (a little Tarm joke there) for a year or so? ALSO, are there any "issues" w/ Econoburns in general, or are they pretty good rigs? Thanks for opinions/info. j

 

[antknee2]

I am in the process off testing a Econoburn 100 set up side by side with my Seton w-130 , boilers have separate chimneys . As I get the hang of running the Econoburn with a very complex storage system that can modulate load as the boilers get a good head of steam , I find the Econoburn very efficient and low wood consumption to fully charge the tanks and most important to me is safety in design . The boiler is built to what seems like military standards it reminds me of my old Department Off Defence surplus diesel generator . The real test with wood usage will take a full season of use . The fire box holds more wood than I expected .
Anthony
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nfi3p0ArRk

 

[pybyr]

I'll second Anthony's comment that the design and build quality on my Econoburn (not yet in service) looks like few other things other than military items and very old John Deere tractors- as in, it would take deliberate sustained and massive punishment to overcome the quality of design and build

for what you describe, it sounds to me like you could get along OK without storage in the interim

the key thing with any gasifier boiler is that it only operates at full efficiency if you can "let 'er rip" with a full burn and not have the controls throttle it back

for those of us who have to leave home for substantial periods of time (darn job... but oh yeah, it does pay the bills, and at least I have one), the answer to that need to run full throttle for efficiency, and still have "heat on tap" while you're away, is the storage.

it sounds as if you have a situation where you can feed your boiler more frequent, less massive, bites of wood, which should let you get quite OK results while postponing storage.

 

[jklingel]

Thanks for the replies. From the sounds of things, I just GOTTA go look at one of these things, and I think I will plan on storage, too, despite what the lit says. Nothing like running something at WOT to keep it clean. BTW: A guy who came out to get some of my aspen (free; way too much lying about) just bought an Alternative Energy (?) gasser and loves it. I don't think he has storage yet, but I will go check his out. These machines are finding their way up here, finally.

 

[antknee2]

The big catch is , you will love it with dry wood and really hate it with wet wood . Super picky appetite . They are a connoisseur of fine wood . My Seton will devour anything that happens to roll into it's big door . Just fuel for thought .
Anthony

 

[jklingel]

Ouch! That was a critical piece of info! Thanks very much. I am not real interested in something that is not robust in appetite. I want to be able to burn whatever there is that is reasonably dry, and not have to wait till wood is "just perfect". Is the issue your particular set-up, or are Econoburns sort of notorious for that (ie, worse than most gassers)? That topic may warrant another thread. Thanks again.

 

[Nofossil]

Don't know about Econoburn, but I suspect that they're similar to EKO.

The dry wood issue is real, but it is sometimes overstated. Here's what I've found:

1) You need really dry wood (20% moisture content or less) to start the fire and get gasification going.

2) Once it's going, you can throw in chunks with higher moisture content - up to about 35% - with no problems as long as you mix in some drier pieces in the 25% - 30% range. I've done fine with wood that's been cut/split/stacked for 12 months before burning.

As with any woodburning appliance, drier is better.

I'm skeptical that anything can burn wood at over 35% MC without some creosote, smoke, and condensation issues. Think about it - you have a thirty pound wood load containing over a gallon of water.....

 

[jklingel]

I am clueless on the acceptable moist content of wood, etc, for my particular machine, as I have not purchased one yet. I do know that 25% is pretty well accepted as "good" and will shoot for that. I just spoke w/ a guy who got an Alt Energy gasser last spring and he says he burns wet and dry wood together, w/ no creosote in the chimney. A little creos forms in the fire box, but then it burns off and the machine is as clean as a whistle still. I guess I'll have to tinker and see what my machine likes when I get it, leaning toward "more dry" than wet.

 

[flyingcow]

I am clueless on the acceptable moist content of wood, etc, for my particular machine, as I have not purchased one yet. I do know that 25% is pretty well accepted as "good" and will shoot for that. I just spoke w/ a guy who got an Alt Energy gasser last spring and he says he burns wet and dry wood together, w/ no creosote in the chimney. A little creos forms in the fire box, but then it burns off and the machine is as clean as a whistle still. I guess I'll have to tinker and see what my machine likes when I get it, leaning toward "more dry" than wet.

So have you figured out what you want?

 

[jklingel]

No, I am not settled on a machine yet, though I have a short list which includes the Econoburn, Tarm, and Garn. The Central Boiler e-whatever is advertised (FWIW) as incredibly clean, too, but I have not run across independent testing to verify that. As for Econo/Tarm/Garn, I'll have to see if the presently over-whelming plumbing scenario for a wood boiler, storage tank, and oil burner is actually digestible, and if, in fact, the plumbing would be much less w/ a Garn since the water tank is already present. It just seems (only seems, not sure) that Garn has engineered their machine quite well, eliminating the need to tinker w/ stratification adjustments, water return temps, build a tank, etc. Besides, having a mini nuclear sub in the basement has its appeal. I'll have to check w/ the home insurer, too. Maybe one or the other is not Kosher?

 

[flyingcow]

Just when you talk to the insurance co, don't mention the "mini nuclear sub" reference :coolsmile:

 

[jklingel]

... don't mention the "mini nuclear sub" reference :coolsmile:

Roger that. I'll try to come up w/ something like Smoke Dragon that will guarantee and easy acceptance.