effecta lambda boiler performance

[ewdudley]

I hope that you don't take offense to me calling you a wiseass.

... I'm not sure that you were being entirely fair to the original poster.

Busted!

As to fair, shouldn't some posts be unfair? I maintain that the OP was intended to purvey, not to inform, so claims to have measured efficiency to three significant digits accuracy, above or below 100%, should be met with deserved ridicule.

And enough with the Lambda.

As I recall there was no day-and-night difference between the K-Jetronic CIS systems and the subsequent closed-loop oxygen sensor based variants. The purely electro-mechanical systems were efficient, reliable, and decidedly more trouble-free than their later cousins.

So I'm skeptical that the added expense and complexity of the current crop of boiler Lambda controls would be worthwhile from an economy, reliability, or performance standpoint.

Which is not to say the day will never come when inexpensive and reliable closed-loop solid fuel boilers will become available, I just don't think we're there yet.

Cheers --ewd

 

[pybyr]

I hope that you don't take offense to me calling you a wiseass.

... I'm not sure that you were being entirely fair to the original poster.

Busted!

As to fair, shouldn't some posts be unfair? I maintain that the OP was intended to purvey, not to inform, so claims to have measured efficiency to three significant digits accuracy, above or below 100%, should be met with deserved ridicule.

And enough with the Lambda.

As I recall there was no day-and-night difference between the K-Jetronic CIS systems and the subsequent closed-loop oxygen sensor based variants. The purely electro-mechanical systems were efficient, reliable, and decidedly more trouble-free than their later cousins.

So I'm skeptical that the added expense and complexity of the current crop of boiler Lambda controls would be worthwhile from an economy, reliability, or performance standpoint.

Which is not to say the day will never come when inexpensive and reliable closed-loop solid fuel boilers will become available, I just don't think we're there yet.

Cheers --ewd

While I'd be looking closely at closed-loop boilers if I were shopping now, I share that skepticism. I just started another thread asking whether one can run such a boiler in a "limp" mode [in which it would approximate a non-sensored boiler] and monitor the results to compare apples to apples. And the presence or absence of such a fallback mode could be a really relevant factor for someone who wants wood heat as a primary heat source but doesn't want to keep an extra 02 sensor on hand [they're probably not cheap] or risk having to wait for days or more if a sensor is suddenly needed][02 sensors in vehicles tend to have a finite life, and I would think that the variables in wood might be "rougher" on an 02 sensor than modern cars' exhaust systems]. Unless, fortuitously, the 02 sensor might happen to be from a common automotive application and so widely/ cheaply available [which would seem sensible but too good to be true].

 

[Willman]

As I recall there was no day-and-night difference between the K-Jetronic CIS systems and the subsequent closed-loop oxygen sensor based variants. The purely electro-mechanical systems were efficient, reliable, and decidedly more trouble-free than their later cousins.

Eliot

Could you provide a brief explanation for dummies like me on this statement ?

Will

 

[ewdudley]

As I recall there was no day-and-night difference between the K-Jetronic CIS systems and the subsequent closed-loop oxygen sensor based variants. The purely electro-mechanical systems were efficient, reliable, and decidedly more trouble-free than their later cousins.

Could you provide a brief explanation?

The old Bosch K-Jetronic was a fuel metering system for engines. The heart of it was a cylinder with beautiful perfect razer-thin slots in the side, one slot for fuel flow to each each engine cylinder. The amount of flow was controlled by sliding a piston in and out of the metering cylinder to expose less or more of the slots. The in and out of the piston was controlled by a plate suspended in a cone, past which flowed air going to the engine, so the more air, the more slot exposed and the more fuel to the engine.

The metering piston worked against pressurized fuel serving as hydraulic fluid. The higher the control pressure the less piston travel in response to increased air flow, so by lowering the control pressure the system could run richer during warm-up.

http://www.diagnostic-assistance.co.uk/mech_inj.htm

It was a slick system and engineered such that the adjustable parameters could be set at the factory and the system would run correctly for decades, give or take a few dirty injectors.

But there was room for improvement and Bosch was able to close the loop on the fuel mixture by getting feedback from an oxygen sensor and using it to adjust the control pressure mentioned above. They did a good job and the system did perform even more correctly, but now you've got a computer, more sensors, more actuators, more wires, and more connections, all waiting for their turn to fail while being bathed in road-salt spray.

Now fast forward fifteen or twenty years and there's no doubt that newer is better, cleaner, cheaper, more reliable, and continuously improving; but there was a time when such was not the case.

--ewd

 

[Willman]

Thanks for the splaining.

Will

 

[jebatty]

I would be interested in knowing what type of sensors are being used to measure the temperatures on the Effecta? Dallas 1-wire? ???

 

[henfruit]

Pete, How is everything on the hill? I used to watch you drive down your drive at 5 am from my bedroom when i lived in effingham on green mtn. Good luck on the new fire house police station.

 

[DaveBP]

We need to keep in mind that the higher the price of fossil fuels goes the less "efficiency" will be used as an engineering term and will become just one more sales term that has no useful meaning.

I think we may already be at the point where true gassifiers are getting high enough 'efficiency' that other factors like convenience and operating simplicity are more important than 2 or 3 higher percentage points of whatever efficiency means. Especially while we appear to be on the exponential-cost-increase phase of the development of these things.

 

[Como]

We need to keep in mind that the higher the price of fossil fuels goes the less "efficiency" will be used as an engineering term and will become just one more sales term that has no useful meaning.

I think we may already be at the point where true gassifiers are getting high enough 'efficiency' that other factors like convenience and operating simplicity are more important than 2 or 3 higher percentage points of whatever efficiency means. Especially while we appear to be on the exponential-cost-increase phase of the development of these things.

Completely agree.

Seems like a service call for me in the boonies is $400. For whatever.

I can buy a truck load of wood for 50$ more. It has to be processed etc but that is chainsaw and splitter work which people around here understand.

So even if I went from 80% ish to 90% one service call would be equivalent to 3-5 years wood costs.

That is not counting the part costs.

 

[jebatty]

Effecta Boiler User: I will post the data logging set up photos tonight.

Eye candy - that's what this is. Are the pictures coming?