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Electricity rate comparison

Post in 'The Green Room' started by Swedishchef, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. nate379

    nate379 Guest

    What uses so much power in the summer? When I lived in Idaho the power cost $0.07 or $0.08 per kWh. House was all electric, the highest bill I ever had was a bit over $100. In the summer it was usually around $15-20.

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  2. Swedishchef

    Swedishchef Minister of Fire

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    Weird... I thought I was doing well in the summer...lol.

    I am guessing the main culprit is the 60 gallon hot water heater. Then the clothes dryer, oven and then lights. And i have a dehumidifier running in the basement all summer (the compressor cycles on and off whereas the fans stay on). The only months where there is no heat on at al in the month is July and August.

    And I assume that Gaspe Quebec is colder than Idaho...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaspé,_Quebec

    A
  3. nate379

    nate379 Guest

    Yeah lows were single digits at the worst though living in a barely insulated 100 year old house may as well been -40*! Summer would get over 100* pretty often. House would stay in the 70s with just shade from big trees and a swamp cooler.

    Was looking at the wikipedia for your town and the temps look similar to here.
    Swedishchef likes this.
  4. Swedishchef

    Swedishchef Minister of Fire

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    It can get hot here but not too hot. I am right beside a bay...that is connected to the Gulf of St Lawrence (not the Gulf of Mexico) and water temps only reach 60 in the summer...east wind wil cool us off. Check out our average snowfall! According to wiki we are even colder than you..
  5. sesmith

    sesmith Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2009
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    Loc:
    Central NY
    I thought, being all electric, your winter usage would be much higher. I'm guessing you are doing much of your heating load with wood. Depending on family size, your summer usage might be considered pretty normal. I'll bet, though, if you got anal with a kill-a-watt meter, you could cut it down by at least 25%. I was able to knock mine down by 30% a few years ago. One of the main culprits was the dehumidifier in the cellar. It was using a lot of electricity to do very little. I replaced it with one that worked. I also did some air sealing down there, which helps keep the humidity out.

    I bet a GSHP (geothermal) would work well where you are. It could do most of your hot water as well. It might be hard to justify the cost where you are, considering the cheap electricity and firewood. Maybe though, over the long term, especially if you wanted, or needed to move away from wood, it might be worth looking at.
  6. Swedishchef

    Swedishchef Minister of Fire

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    My family is a family of 4..however the kids are young. One is 4 months and one is 2.5 years. That does involve washing their clothing twice a week though. lol.

    I may be able to cut it down a bit but I don't think it is that high right now. Biggest culprit is the hot water tank, lights (8 recessed lights on the house @60 watts each on for 4-8 hours a night..I could replace them with $30 bulbs but no thanks) and dryer (we NEVER hang clothing..).

    I think it is not that high in the winter due to 2 things:

    1- I have a wood stove in my basement (which is insulated with R24 top to bottom..R10 spray foam on the walls and R14 Roxul) and burn 1.5 cords of softwood and 1.5 cords of hardwood a year. The heat easily rises to the main floor west end of the house.

    2- It is a 3.5 year old house. R50 attic, R22 walls and double pane low E argon windows. I think it must help a bit...It is a 1325 square foot bungalow (not that big).

    My basement is completely wired for electric heating but I don't dare use....THEN my electricity costs would double!

    Unfortunately I don't think Geothermal is worth it here. I don't plan on being in this house much longer so I won't recoup the costs. And Hydro Quebec doesn't even have any plan to buy electricity from small producers (say I installed some panels). They simply give kWh credits! And you have to pay for the hookup, everything!

    Next house may have infloor heating with a wood boiler......
  7. pdf27

    pdf27 Member

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    UK
    3 bedroom mid-terrace house with the two of us living in it, heating & hot water by mains gas (~10,000 kWh/year). LED lights everywhere, new highly efficient appliances, dishwasher plumbed in to hot water, that sort of thing.
    Hoping to fit Solar PV + Hot Water and wood stove this year, aiming for ~6,000 kWh/year of gas and ~1,200 kWh/year of electricity (we don't have net metering in the UK).
  8. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    I just did some math and came up with a monthly average of 191 kWh for that last 12 months. A grand total of 2,292 kWh in that last year. Annual useage of 50 gallons of LP for dryer, and range, and 60 gal of oil for hot water in the summer, as all other water and 100% heat is provided with wood during the heating season. I have been thinking of selling my Toyotomi OM and going with an air source HP for some "free" air conditioning in the summer. We did run a window AC unit for a few hours a day last summer in the bedroom.

    TS
  9. Swedishchef

    Swedishchef Minister of Fire

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    Oooo...you said the secret! Hot water and heating via gas. Now it makes sense. I didn't even think of it! lol
  10. Swedishchef

    Swedishchef Minister of Fire

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    Good grief, I dont know why I did not realize that you would have to heat water, use dryer, etc with NG or LP. Otherwise the utility bill would be much higher. My bad!

    Andrew
  11. Hansson

    Hansson Feeling the Heat

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    Loc:
    Sweden,Leksand
    Hydropower 66 TWh
    Nuclear power 55 TWh
    Vindpower 6 TWh
    Others 19 TWh "Biomass"
  12. Swedishchef

    Swedishchef Minister of Fire

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    That is what I thought. 50/50 nuclear/hydro. Very nice!
  13. lukem

    lukem Minister of Fire

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    Indiana
    I'm at $0.08379 all in here. First 300 is $0.09 then the next whatever is $0.05, then a bunch of taxes and riders.

    Either way, it's pretty cheap.
  14. Swedishchef

    Swedishchef Minister of Fire

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    Holy crap, that is cheap indeed!!! Usually electricity gets more expensive as you use more...
  15. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    They pay 64 cents per kwh? That must be a mistake, since you can buy it for less than 10.
  16. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    Nope, 64 cents which must be 54 from the state and 10 from the utility.

    "
    For every kilowatt hour (kWh) produced by your grid-tied solar, wind or biogas system, up to $5,000 annually, as measured by your Production Meter:
    15¢/kWh – system with components made out of state
    38¢/kWh – for made-in-WA solar panels with out of state inverter
    54¢/kWh – for made-in-WA solar panels with made-in-WA inverter
    Your local utility reads your Production Meter and you have the option to receive a check annually or apply your earnings to your utility bill.
    Through June 30, 2020."
  17. Swedishchef

    Swedishchef Minister of Fire

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    o...m..g.... KA-CHING!!!!
  18. woodgeek

    woodgeek Minister of Fire

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    Those are the sort of rates that got solar rolling in Germany, now in the process of phasing out.
  19. Hansson

    Hansson Feeling the Heat

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    If I have solar panels and sell it to my provider I got 0.157/kWh pay. The goverment pay 50% of the installion cost of the panels. They change it from 70% resently.
    I think the goverment sould not spend monney on things like that <>
  20. denjohn

    denjohn Member

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    I'm spending the winter in Saipan, just got the bill for February, 84 kwh @ $.41551 = $34.90
  21. Laszlo

    Laszlo New Member

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    Loc:
    Pennsylvania
    We just signed up for 100% wind power through Citizen Power's Green Energy Collaborative, with a 3-year locked-in rate of $0.0828 for electric generation (our "Price to Compare"), which is a slight savings versus PECO. Up through 2012 PECO gave us a winter heating discount, but since they dropped it our Price to Compare has been $0.0869/kWh, with distribution and other fees pushing it to ~$0.133/kWh in total (and a marginal rate of $0.129 for each additional kWh used or saved). This is quite a bit higher than in previous years--as shown by our combined yearly electric bills' cost divided by our yearly kWh used:
    • 2008 - $0.10200/kWh
    • 2009 - $0.10511/kWh
    • 2010 - $0.09730/kWh
    • 2011 - $0.10982/kWh
    • 2012 - $0.13791/kWh
    PECO - Price to Compare VS Actual Cost.png
    The graph is from 2011 on only, when our bills started including the Price to Compare.
  22. Swedishchef

    Swedishchef Minister of Fire

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    That is a pretty nice setup.. I wish we had something like that here......
  23. RustyShackleford

    RustyShackleford Minister of Fire

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    The regular rate here is about 11 cents. But thanks to a time-of-day rate, I now pay about 5 cents most of the time, and about 30 cents on weekdays from 6-11am in winter and 1-5pm in summer. This might not work so well for some people, but I have a rather odd diurnal cycle, typically sleeping 3am - Noon. So the peak hours are a complete non-issue in winter, and not much of one in summer, because I like to keep the house pretty cool overnight, so when I wake up, I simply turn the thermostat up and the A/C does not come on until the peak period is over. As a result, I use about one kwh per day during the peak hours, which is basically my "basal metabolism" of 150-200 watts, probably mostly due to an old refrigerator.

    Though this is excellent for my wallet, I do wonder if it helps on carbon. Though obviously I'm helping a lot with the issue of having to add generation capacity, I guess the key question is: does the generation of peak-time electricity have substantially more environmental impact, be it carbon emissions or whatever ?

    I know one way in which my plan definitely helps. It was told to me by my climate journalist friend who's normally a huge climate-change hawk, when he endorsed my plan to get an old-fashioned electric-resistance water heater (albeit far better insulated than your grandfather's) and save the $1000+ over a "fancy" new water heater and put it towards solar electric or something. He explained the idea is that the millions of electric water heaters actually act as giant distributed "battery" for storing electric energy. As long as one contrives, of course, to have the water heater not operate during peak hours; this happens for me quite naturally due to my schedule, as explained above, but can be implemented by most anyone using a water-heater timer.
    Swedishchef likes this.
  24. Laszlo

    Laszlo New Member

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    Yes, though the effect will vary by region depending on the mix of power generation. Hydro, nuclear, and the cleaner gas and coal-fired plants can provide for most base-load power demands, but during peak days of the year the old, dirtier coal plants are brought back into temporary service to handle the load.

    Times of peak load are also times of peak profits (to an extraordinary degree). For this reason, solar capacity can have an outsized effect on the industry, despite its tiny sliver of the generation market. By cutting into the fossil fuel burners' peak summertime hours, solar greatly reduces their profits.
  25. woodgeek

    woodgeek Minister of Fire

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    My HPWH still uses a hefty 1500 kWh/yr, and is just as good a battery (if I had TOU and put it on a timer).

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