I recently had occasion to buy some single-wall stovepipe from Elmer's PIpe and would like to share the pros and cons of my experience. When I replaced my Dutchwest with a Blaze King last year, I initially re-used the old stovepipe, wanting to see how the BK would perform without the recommended double-wall. It did just fine, so this year I wanted to replace the old stovepipe with some new heavier-grade stuff. I considered Selkirk (they can't quite seem to decide on the name of the product line), Simpson DuraBlack, and Elmer's (www.elmerspipe.com). I went with Elmer's because they offer a 15- and 30-degree fixed elbow, which would prove useful for me to get the offset I needed (I used the 30-degree) while keeping the smoke-path as smooth as possible. (Some say that other makers have less-than-45 degree elbows in single-wall stovepipe, but I'm pretty sure Selkirk and Simpson do not).
It was a bit frustrating designing the installation, because Elmer's does not have an "offset chart"; this is a table that shows, for an offset made of two elbows with various short lengths (or none) of straight pipe in-between, what the offset is and how tall the assembly is. To be fair, Selkirk single-wall does not have an offset chart either (they do for their double-wall). Simpson has a very nice one. However, and this is a big plus of Elmer's, I was able to call and talk to Elmer himself directly about my problem. Of course, I had to wait for him to call me back, and then try to make him understand why I needed this information, and then wait another day for him to take the measurement, and then remind him that I needed the height as well, and then wait another day for that. But I got the info eventually.
I made my order, including two custom-length pieces which he made for no extra charge (just the price of the next longer standard length); at least I THINK this is the case, I never actually got an invoice, just a packing list without prices, nothing by email either - but a VISA charge showed up and appeared to be about right.
The pipe came promptly. Nice quality construction. Nice paint job. Custom lengths as specified. Excited !
Until I went to put it together. Everything fit together fine, a short piece at the top, then the two 30-degree elbows with a short piece in-between. But, when I went to put in the final 24" standard length between the bottom elbow and the stove collar, it would not fit. The male/crimped end of the bottom elbow would only go about 1/2" into the female end of the 24" piece.
I called Elmer and he said maybe the elbow wasn't crimped well enough. I doubted that, since the elbows fit into the short straight lengths just fine; they also fit into a piece of my old stovepipe. But I took an elbow to a local chimney installer/sweep guy, who said "oh, this is Elmer's, I don't think I can do much". He had at it with his crimper, but couldn't go far. He said that he'd had trouble with Elmer's pipe not fitting together properly.
I call Elmer again. He says he'll send me another 24" piece and does so promptly. It doesn't fit any better. I send both 24" pieces back, at my expense, along with a note politely expressing my disappointment and suggesting that he may have a quality-control issue.
Meanwhile, it's getting cold. So I buy a 24" piece from a local building supply place. It's not as nice as the Elmer's stuff, but it's not the cheap flimsy crap either. And it fits. I have a nice new stovepipe assembly. Not as nice as it should have been for $150 or so, but nice.
I figure I'm content with my installation and tired of messing with pipe and with Elmer (I haven't heard back from them in regard to my return and note), so I leave a phone message to please refund me for the 24" length.
I hear nothing and finally call back and talk to Elmer. It seems like he figures I'm probably an idiot; but he claims he wants to figure out what is wrong. I should send everything back; he'll issue an order for Fedex to pick it up so I don't have to pay shipping. This is Friday and he says I'll hear from someone Monday. Monday comes and goes and later that week, not having heard anything, I call back and learn that Elmer is on vacation. He'll do something when he gets back. Nothing for a week or two more.
Finally I call Elmer again. I ask him if he actually tried plugging one of his 30-degree elbows, hopefully from the same batch as mine, into the 24" pieces I sent back. No, he didn't think of that. But he'll try it tomorrow. Nothing for a week or so. I call back. Elmer is gone again. The secretary will call him and find out what's going on and call me right back. That was 2 weeks ago. I've had it.
So the bottom line: it's a well-made product notwithstanding this quality-control problem. Customer-service is good in the sense that you can talk to THE man directly and they're good about custom orders. Not so good about doing what they say they're going to do. If you need elbows of less than 45-degrees, and are feeling lucky, try Elmer's. But be warned.
It was a bit frustrating designing the installation, because Elmer's does not have an "offset chart"; this is a table that shows, for an offset made of two elbows with various short lengths (or none) of straight pipe in-between, what the offset is and how tall the assembly is. To be fair, Selkirk single-wall does not have an offset chart either (they do for their double-wall). Simpson has a very nice one. However, and this is a big plus of Elmer's, I was able to call and talk to Elmer himself directly about my problem. Of course, I had to wait for him to call me back, and then try to make him understand why I needed this information, and then wait another day for him to take the measurement, and then remind him that I needed the height as well, and then wait another day for that. But I got the info eventually.
I made my order, including two custom-length pieces which he made for no extra charge (just the price of the next longer standard length); at least I THINK this is the case, I never actually got an invoice, just a packing list without prices, nothing by email either - but a VISA charge showed up and appeared to be about right.
The pipe came promptly. Nice quality construction. Nice paint job. Custom lengths as specified. Excited !
Until I went to put it together. Everything fit together fine, a short piece at the top, then the two 30-degree elbows with a short piece in-between. But, when I went to put in the final 24" standard length between the bottom elbow and the stove collar, it would not fit. The male/crimped end of the bottom elbow would only go about 1/2" into the female end of the 24" piece.
I called Elmer and he said maybe the elbow wasn't crimped well enough. I doubted that, since the elbows fit into the short straight lengths just fine; they also fit into a piece of my old stovepipe. But I took an elbow to a local chimney installer/sweep guy, who said "oh, this is Elmer's, I don't think I can do much". He had at it with his crimper, but couldn't go far. He said that he'd had trouble with Elmer's pipe not fitting together properly.
I call Elmer again. He says he'll send me another 24" piece and does so promptly. It doesn't fit any better. I send both 24" pieces back, at my expense, along with a note politely expressing my disappointment and suggesting that he may have a quality-control issue.
Meanwhile, it's getting cold. So I buy a 24" piece from a local building supply place. It's not as nice as the Elmer's stuff, but it's not the cheap flimsy crap either. And it fits. I have a nice new stovepipe assembly. Not as nice as it should have been for $150 or so, but nice.
I figure I'm content with my installation and tired of messing with pipe and with Elmer (I haven't heard back from them in regard to my return and note), so I leave a phone message to please refund me for the 24" length.
I hear nothing and finally call back and talk to Elmer. It seems like he figures I'm probably an idiot; but he claims he wants to figure out what is wrong. I should send everything back; he'll issue an order for Fedex to pick it up so I don't have to pay shipping. This is Friday and he says I'll hear from someone Monday. Monday comes and goes and later that week, not having heard anything, I call back and learn that Elmer is on vacation. He'll do something when he gets back. Nothing for a week or two more.
Finally I call Elmer again. I ask him if he actually tried plugging one of his 30-degree elbows, hopefully from the same batch as mine, into the 24" pieces I sent back. No, he didn't think of that. But he'll try it tomorrow. Nothing for a week or so. I call back. Elmer is gone again. The secretary will call him and find out what's going on and call me right back. That was 2 weeks ago. I've had it.
So the bottom line: it's a well-made product notwithstanding this quality-control problem. Customer-service is good in the sense that you can talk to THE man directly and they're good about custom orders. Not so good about doing what they say they're going to do. If you need elbows of less than 45-degrees, and are feeling lucky, try Elmer's. But be warned.
